[NashGuy]

This is a short video commercial, I don't know who's servers. But they look like SD low bitrate videos.
Happened on every recording so far but there's only been 5 recordings since I set it up.
My service provider is Comcast.

You can skip over the video by pressing FFWD but that's not the point is it?

I wonder if they're just testing this with a few folks.

Andy, are you signed up as a beta tester for TiVo?

I want to make clear that I am NOT a TiVo beta tester. But... a little birdie who IS one told me this week that they're seeing ads inserted into the Hydra program guide grid on their TiVo.

Before everyone freaks out, we don't yet know what these pre-roll streaming video ads or static UI grid guide ads mean. Maybe it's something that TiVo is developing only for deployment on their pay TV partners' TiVo boxes. And/or maybe it's something that will be offered as an optional way for retail TiVo users to pay less for their monthly/annual TiVo service fees.

 

[NashGuy]

the irony in the same company giving the customer both auto commercial skip and new 15 second streaming ads.

Yeah. The difference is that TiVo isn't getting paid a dime for those ads they're helping you to skip over in the actual broadcast. But they're getting all the ad revenue for those pre-roll ads that customers view.

 

[NashGuy]

I'm wondering if the next step is to roll out a product with free OTA DVR service (perhaps their upcoming $50 TiVo Android TV Stick in conjunction with a Tablo-style network tuner+hard drive). They'll use their existing AutoSkip technology (supplemented by AI-based ad marking for non-primetime shows) in order to automatically skip over all the original ads embedded in the broadcast recording. But instead, they'll force you to watch, let's say, one or two 30-second targeted streaming ads during each ad break.

Lots of cord-cutters would accept that kind of trade-off for free DVR service. Not sure if such a scheme might violate copyright, fair-use, etc. though. Broadcasters would, of course, be up in arms.

 

[NashGuy]

Can we keep at least one thread centered on what's actually happening...

If you've read through the thread so far, I think that's what's actually happening is pretty well established. What more is there to say?

Here are the facts: TiVo owners running TE4 (Hydra) are seeing streaming pre-roll video ads that TiVo is inserting before they begin playback of their regular TV recordings. It's been confirmed by TiVo via Twitter with remarks that seem to indicate that this is now normal behavior and not some sort of limited experiment that isn't ultimately intended for their existing retail customers. The ads can be skipped/FF past, although (at least right now), doing so is a bit sluggish.

 

[NashGuy]

I don't know that there's been what you could say ALL TiVo owners running TE4 have the same experience! Until there's a 'majority of TE4 users that can confirm your implied 'FACT' actually is more speculation!!!

Learn to read, sir. Nowhere in my statement does it say ALL TiVo owners running TE4 are seeing these ads. (Yet, anyway.) How could anyone know with any certainty whether a certain feature/bug is affecting ALL TiVo users anyhow? What we do know is that several folks on TE4 (but, I believe, none on TE3) have confirmed that they are seeing these pre-roll ads. And TiVo has confirmed that this is happening and that's it's apparently not some isolated freak thing.

 

[NashGuy]

So far it has "hit" two users I believe and the tweet doesn't go along with their take... the story is far from written and for once it would be nice to read a thread focused on current events not ramblings of little or no interest.

OK, Charles R. You go ahead and tell us what the story is. Please. Add to the conversation here on this thread. Enlighten us. What do you have to say?

 

[NashGuy]

My take... since virtually the rest of the world is doing such I can't logically get upset. And in reality I'm saving more time with AutoSkip - as in if I had to pick both or neither I'd pick both. Although I don't think it will be implemented in all devices. As an example with Amazon's Kindle you can purchase the same tablet with ads (you pay less) or without ads.

If they were to show up illogically I might run out (next decent sale) and purchase a Recast to see how happy I could be with it. Logically even the reduced image quality would be enough to prevent me from switching... but often logical doesn't win out.

PS: I run pi-hole on an ODROID XU4 (Raspberry Pi Killer) along with many other apps (Plex Media Server / MySQL Server / Print Server / Media Server / Etc) and it blocks roughly 27% of my DNS requests (ads and or tracking sites).

Sorry, Charles R. but this post simply doesn't belong on this thread. Why are you posting about the Recast? And the Kindle? And something called the ODROID XU4? Those things have nothing at all to do with what this thread is about.

Please stick to the story at hand or refrain from posting.

 

[NashGuy]

So far it has "hit" two users I believe and the tweet doesn't go along with their take... the story is far from written and for once it would be nice to read a thread focused on current events not ramblings of little or no interest.

It's hit at least three users who have reported just in this thread (andyf, edwinyeun, and V7Goose). And how exactly does TiVo's tweet not match what those users are reporting?

 

[NashGuy]

I did READ and nowhere do you mention 'SOME' - the TWEET actually mentions 'SOME DVR' recordings and not all!!!

You're full of the 'I heard it from this guy who was told by this guy over here that this is FACT' and you're use of the I THINK is maybe an abuse of your mind!! Give it a break!!

So unless someone specifically says "SOME," you understand it to mean "ALL"? Got it. Excellent reading comprehension skills there, bud.

 

[NashGuy]

As someone who just switched over from fios, the tivo experience isn't better than what fios offers now. Maybe I should try to watch all my recordings and downgrade to TE3 or something. (I've only seen TE4, never used TE3)

Autoskip is VERY VERY nice, but there are bad things about tivo that fios did better. I was ok with that prior to these ads, because tivo was good enough and I'd eventually save money on the box rentals.

But now that tivo is altering my recordings to stick their own commercials in, that tips the scale heavily in favor of fios.

And you mention dumping tivo for an alternative, thats kind of what pisses me off. I signed up just 2 months ago. I'm stuck now with an inferior dvr that I now feel I wouldn't have bought/paid too much for.

So now I'm going to stew, and hope that there is an opt out that becomes available. I kind of expect ebay values to stagnate or go down (who is going to spend $$ for a dvr that inserts ads?) . But in a month or so if the ads are still there I'll have to see how much its going to cost me to switch back.

I've read that Verizon FiOS recently increased the price for their DVR service and/or equipment rental.

And while you're trying to weigh your options, be aware that Verizon now sells YouTube TV, letting you pay through your Verizon bill. Earlier this summer, they were giving new FiOS internet subscribers one free month of YouTube TV to start rather than the standard 1-week free trial. Also, Verizon has submitted to the FCC a new streaming device called "Stream TV". The speculation is that it will run a version of Google Android TV with a UI and remote control that are customized specifically for YouTube TV. Then Verizon will have their own custom hardware to give to their YouTube TV subscribers, making it easier for traditional cable TV subscribers to switch over to streaming cable TV.

Sure Looks Like Verizon has a Streaming TV Box on the Way

YouTube TV (and all the streaming cable TV services, really) have their own set of trade-offs versus using traditional cable TV with a TiVo. But with TiVo now streaming ads to their users, it might tip the scales in favor of another option...

 

[NashGuy]

I fear the market is about to be flooded with used TiVo gear :-(

There will be some folks who sell their TiVo over this but I really do think that the TiVo users who post on this forum are probably more pissed off about the pre-roll video ad than is the average TiVo user. Not that I'm defending what TiVo is doing here. Especially for DVRs with paid lifetime service, they should never implement this program in the first place, even if it can be removed after making a phone call.

If you want to talk about when eBay will be flooded with used TiVos, that'll be if/when a significant number of Comcast cable channels are no longer compatible with CableCARD...

 

[NashGuy]

YOU'VE READ!!!!!! - AGAIN - YOU're stressing the 'brain' STOP IT

I'll wait for some 'first hand' responses!!! The mentions of 'HERE TO STAY - NO ALTERNATIVE' seem to all be from so called sources via another guy who told my cousin who told her sister but swears it to be correct because she heard it on the Internet!!!

Verizon Fios is Raising Its DVR & Set-Top Box Fees to $24 Per Box - Cord Cutters News

Also, if you keep up your behavior, I will report you to the forum moderators for harassment.

 

[NashGuy]

I've been twiddling with streaming/OTA this month. Subbed to Sling Blue+DVR. Trick play with DVR was hit or miss, some programs you could, others you couldn't.

Looking forward to see what you find on ad skipping with Channels.

For me I'll stick with Tivo until something more unified comes along for streaming/OTA. Apple's TV app is a step in the right direction, just need to bring more streaming services into the fold.

If you want to stick with Sling TV for streaming cable channels, and combine that with free OTA TV, the most unified solution would be the new AirTV Mini for your TV streaming device, with an AirTV black box network tuner to bring in your OTA. You would connect your OTA antenna and a USB hard drive to the tuner and then you'd have streaming and OTA live channels, with cloud and local DVR, all integrated into the same native UI of the AirTV Mini. [EDIT: But be aware that they're due to roll out an updated version of the AirTV tuner any time now.]

Actually, you wouldn't even need the AirTV Mini, necessarily. You could instead use the Sling app on other streaming devices. The AirTV Mini is a customized Google Android TV streamer with Sling taking over the home-screen UI. And the remote control is custom-built for Sling.

 

[NashGuy]

I'm a big fan of the Channels app. Use it with an HDHomeRun OTA tuner for live TV on my Apple TV 4K. I don't subscribe to their DVR service but it looks very nice.

But I wonder about this new feature that they recently rolled out that lets you locally record streaming content from cable channels' TV Everywhere apps/websites using your cable provider log-in credentials. Is there a simple way for those cable channels to block that practice? It's not like Channels DVR has a ton of users, so maybe they're flying below the radar and the cable networks don't even know about it. Or if they do know, they don't care since it's being used by so few folks.

That said, Channels doesn't sell lifetime subscriptions to their DVR service, so if that feature got removed at some point, it's not like you're locked in.

 

[NashGuy]

More info....
TiVo confirms its customers will soon see ads before DVR recordings

Lead para:

So much for it being an early, experimental test. TiVo has confirmed that it plans to place pre-roll video advertisements before DVR recordings for all customers - even those with a lifetime subscription plan. "DVR advertising is going to be a permanent part of the service," a company spokesperson flatly told Light Reading. "We expect to be fully rolled out to all eligible retail devices within 90 days."​

 

[NashGuy]

Very likely the case. But the "feature" also tarnishes the brand and product. "Hey, Bob, you gonna buy a TiVO?" "Isn't that the one that forces you to watch ads to watch your shows? Nah." That's how sales and market share erode.

Yeah, I agree. I just think this shows, frankly, TiVo's desperation. I think that they know the path they're on isn't sustainable, especially on the retail side. The number of retail TiVo users slipped below 1 million several years ago. And I think TiVo knows it's inevitable that Comcast, and eventually other cable TV providers, will migrate most or all of their cable channels over from QAM to IPTV in the next few years. At that point, TCF will become somewhat of a ghost town, don't you think?

IMO, TiVo has no great options to pursue. Their original business model -- being a provider of premium DVR hardware and service to be used in conjunction with cable TV -- is pretty much exhausted. They know that they have to embrace streaming somehow, and incorporate ad revenue into their mix in order to bring down prices and bring in new types of users who don't care anything at all about DVRs.

In retrospect, I think we'll look back on fall 2019 as the turning point when TiVo began pivoting away from the traditional DVR to ad-supported streaming.

 

[NashGuy]

I doubt the ability to skip the ad will be permanent. Otherwise what's the point of having them. Do they think Tivo users are going to watch them. This whole idea is odd.

Maybe their thinking goes like this:

1. CableCARD is living on borrowed time at this point, so we're not really concerned about how our CableCARD-using retail TiVo customers react to forced streaming ads. Many of those folks have already paid us for lifetime service, so what can they do? Among the rest who pay for monthly TiVo service, well, many are leaving cable TV for streaming options (YouTube TV, Hulu Live, etc.) anyhow. Those defections will only increase in the next few years as QAM cable channels disappear with the transition to IPTV, led by Comcast.

2. That leaves folks who care about streaming video and free OTA TV as the focus of our retail efforts. Many of those folks are cost-conscious and like stuff that's free or cheap. What we'll do is offer a new TiVo+ app with free video content and forced ads. We'll also roll out a new $50 Android TV stick that features an enhanced version of the TiVo+ app built into the home screen UI. Lastly, we'll sell a Tablo-like OTA network DVR that can work in conjunction with that stick as well as the TiVo+ app on any device (Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, iPhone, Android, etc.). We'll price the OTA DVR service two ways: free, with forced streaming ads embedded in the recordings, and paid, with no or few forced ads. Either way, viewers will have our SkipMode feature that lets them skip over the original ads recorded in the broadcast signal.

 

[NashGuy]

* Of course, maybe there's a real, fully-baked idea there, perhaps even incorporating some of the ideas mentioned above and that many people, even here, might find as acceptable--but TiVo just isn't really saying (apart from some information, some of which has been contradictory, from some customer service reps.), anything.

I think we'll get much more of TiVo's overall game plan (and see just how baked it is) in October when TiVo+ is officially announced (along with the Edge likely at the same time). I'm wondering if TiVo is pushing this out now (even though their Android TV streaming stick apparently won't be ready until early 2020) in order to get out in front of some bad news that Comcast might deliver this fall with regard to TiVo. Perhaps TiVo wants to show the media and Wall Street that they do have a post-CableCARD DVR future lined up and they're already executing on it.

 

[NashGuy]

Well, for heaven's sake, get it out in baked fashion on introduction (low resolution ads? glitchiness and blue spinning circles? is this really what TiVo wants Pres. Trump to be watching?), and actually inform the customers that this is happening and what it is, and its parameters. Don't simply have the tech. dribble out on unsuspecting customers without explanation and leave it hanging in that fashion, with customers to be guessing and information coming from 3rd-party websites and commentators.

If, in fact, the pre-rolls can be turned off through a switch or by calling TiVo, how great--think of how much angst and bad press, and tarnishing of TiVo's image, could be avoided by telling people up-front. Were the Marketing and PR departments kept out of the loop on this one?

As someone who has worked in PR/marketing communications, yeah, I think they definitely pooped the bed on this one.

 

[NashGuy]

As long as they treat all ads equally, I wouldn't think it would be a problem. But if they give their own ads preference by allowing other ads to be autoskipped but their own ads must be skipped manually, that could raise issues.

Hmm. I'm not a lawyer but I really do wonder, under the current fair use law that allows consumers to record broadcast TV, what would preclude TiVo or any other company -- that operates independently of the broadcasters and cable TV operator -- from completely cutting out the original broadcast ads and replacing them with TiVo's own unskippable ads. (I'm not saying that this is what TiVo is doing or will do, I'm just wondering what aspect of current law might preclude such behavior.) Seems to me that if the consumer didn't like that aspect of TiVo's DVR service, it would be up to him to switch to a different DVR service. And I can't see how the broadcasters or cable companies involved would have any legal leg to stand on. But then, as I say, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the ins and outs of the applicable law.