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Bryan
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423 Posts
What the actual f*ck! Seriously if they force this on us I'm going to be p*ssed. I hate ads! I've paid TiVo thousands upon thousands of dollars over the years to avoid them in my recorded TV. If they start trying to force their own ads onto me I'm done.
Unfortunately Roku has shown how profitable ads can be. Hopefully TiVO is testing this for the OEM market and not retail. Not ideal but if this keeps TiVO in business I can deal with one upfront commercial. The people who buy retail TiVo's are not very profitable customers. They do not buy directly from TiVO forcing TiVO to split profits with retailers. They buy onetime All-In service and then hold onto hardware forever. And now a lot of the TCF customers have become addicted to only paying rock bottom $599 DVR+All-In SALE prices. I'm surprised TiVO waited so long.
 

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Bryan
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423 Posts
It not now then when? If they're earning ad revenue today, why aren't prices going down today? I don't see what would be different next year.
When TiVO splits into two companies in 2020 the Patents Inc side will no longer contribute to TiVO Inc. bottom line. Something has to replace this revenue stream! TiVO is adding a profitable recurring revenue stream so lowering prices would just offset this. That obviously makes zero business sense.

TiVO is just copying the current business model of Roku a company that was written off only a few years ago. Roku when faced with competition from Amazon, Apple, and Google changed its business model from hardware sales to ads+Video rental platform. TiVo's competition is just as daunting in Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon.

You don't have to like it but at least understand the reasoning.
 

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Bryan
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423 Posts
Flawed logic. Roku charges less than $100 for the hardware and zero subscription fees. And Roku doesn't insert ads before every Netflix stream, only on the content they give you FOR FREE.
If even 10% of the customer base leaves, this concept will lose TiVo money in the long term. I bet at least 10% leave or forgo new purchases over this move.
Going with your made up numbers we have 10% of ~300,000 customer is 30,000 retail customers forgoing a new purchase they may never have made anyway. That is small compared to the 7+ million OEM cable company subscribers who pay monthly and will watch the pre-rolls happy that auto-Skip removed the other 16 minutes of ads.

Honestly the only reason TiVO didn't start serving up ads sooner is because of the Patent $$$ coming in. That's gone and something needs to replace that recurring revenue stream. Feel free to suggest one.
 

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Bryan
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423 Posts
Technically a downgrade but it's so limited. All it's doing is blowing away your current OS setup and installing a brand new OS. Now go and find old OS device drivers.

1) Did You Upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 and want to go back to Windows 8.1?
Note: This is only available for the first month after upgrading and is only compatible with Windows 8.1.

2) Did you purchase a system with Windows 10 and want to use Windows 8.1 instead?

You will have to replace Windows 10 with a fresh installation of Windows 8.1 using original installation media.

"At this point you need to configure your system by installing your backups and software and ensuring the correct drivers are installed."
 

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Bryan
Joined
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423 Posts
"It's much simpler to test/debug if the Edge hardware is only running one version of the software" = lazy /
Do you honestly believe TE3 would just run on EDGE hardware As-Is?

TE3 is NOT a standalone executable like a Windows/Linux/iOS/Android app. It's many executables running on a custom stripped down Linux OS including kernel mods (loadable device drivers).

Just for starters the underlying custom Linux OS would need to be upgraded from the current TE3 version so that newer hardware (SoC) had working device drivers. What company would be stupid enough to even entertain this idea?

We haven't even gotten to all the staff needed for this endeavor. Who needs these people working on new upcoming TE4 code when we can have them working on a previous deprecated TE3 release?

Then there's cost. Each developers make $100k+ Not including benefits. A family insurance plan now costs companies on average $20k.
 

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Bryan
Joined
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423 Posts
Ummm... when I wrote "campaign", I was talking about calling and writing TiVo to protest this. If enough of their customers complain, they might stop doing it. I never mentioned a class action lawsuit. I agree with you completely that the only people who benefit from a class action suit are the lawyers.
Taking Ted at his word if these ads are needed to keep TiVO retail viable then what's the alternative? You'd have to raise prices a decent amount on low volume hardware like a TiVo DVR to offset costs and that more than likely would hurt sales.

I'm not thrilled about a pre-roll ad but the idea that this is a cash grab and Tivos greedy is dispelled by reading their quarterly financial statements showing hardware revenue of only $1.7M (R&D was $38M!) in the Qtr ending June 30th. That's not even 7 thousand $250 DVRs.

Font Electric blue Parallel Number Rectangle
 

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Bryan
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423 Posts
I don't know about saving money. By using TiVos with cable over the last thirteen years, instead of renting boxes from Comcast and FiOS, I've saved thousands.
The cable boxes are very expensive to rent. And you keep paying that every month. It easily would have been more expensive than my TiVos and cable cards.
Exactly, but it's more than just saving money. With TiVO you get a better experience with DVR enhancements you soon take for granted. You get quarterly software updates and the occasional new app. I still remember how cool it was when we got HBOGo. No the apps aren't as good as on Roku/Apple TV but for some, like myself, it works on *every* TV w/o switching inputs to another box.

Every cable provider I've ever had in the Tri-state area wanted $8-10 per TV box. From TWC/Spectrum and CableVision to FIOS and TiVO provider RCN. Some also wanted $19.99 for "DVR service." And if you managed to get a discount on those fees you lost discounts elsewhere in the package including FREE HBO, Showtime, etc.

This is my experience with using Cable boxes from the 90's until 2012. And TiVO for the past 8 years (also TiVO for 3 months in 2004.)
 

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Bryan
Joined
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423 Posts
The theory I have heard making the rounds in the tech community is that Tivo already KNOWS they are going to lose retail subs, they are now just trying to milk us for every last penny on our way out.
I'll take Ted's explanation of TiVO needing ads to make the low-volume retail channel viable over the above TCF conspiracy theory. With TiVO splitting into two companies in 2020 the hardware side needs to start making money since the patent/litigation side won't be around to subsidize it anymore.
 

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Bryan
Joined
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423 Posts
Such as? What DVR (not a streamer box...a cable or OTA DVR) box has a modern UI better than TE3? Seriously - I might buy it.
Honestly most parents don't talk about their kids as fondly as you talk about TE3. It's just a DVR UI. You can't tell me your DVR is that important a thing in your life that it's worth spending hours a day defending it? And you get so emotional about it since everything is personal to you (it isn't since no one on TCF uses their real name!) I had no problem understanding what Charles wrote, regardless if I agree, I too don't understand this fanaticism towards TE3 since TE4's release.
 
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