[Player01]

Was it just Long Island optimum though? I thought it was more widespread across other companies/ areas.

Buteven for the people who bought lifetime, now that their unit is more or less bricked, there's no chance of them reupping to a new unit ever again. Further loss.

Not sure what other regions may or may not have been involved.

Understand your point regarding purchasing new units, but I haven't purchased a new unit in many years. I suspect the retail end of Tivo's current business is not really their focus anymore.

Also - some users were able to move to other providers and others still were able to move to OTA for content. This isn't a big deal to Tivo.

 

[JCMAN]

Understand your point regarding purchasing new units, but I haven't purchased a new unit in many years. I suspect the retail end of Tivo's current business is not really their focus anymore.

If you want any perspective, the Q3 2024 financial report statement and associated presentation doesn't mention retail at all for Xperi (Tivo's parent company). After mentioning the net loss for the quarter, they talk about TiVo OS for connected TV advertising (an operating system similar to Roku for TVs, over one million TVs shipped primarily in Europe, expecting Tivo Smart TVs in the US this month), DTS AutoStage for connected/intelligent in-dash experiences in automobiles, video-over-broadband (IPTV) implementations with NCTC, MSC & Westman, Panasonic (basically, Xperi/Tivo to MSOs/hardware manufacturers), DTS Clear Dialogue (AI for TVs to have intelligible dialog when watching TV), and sale of Perceive to Amazon.

All of these are commercial deal focus.

Page 14 shows core Pay TV having revenue of $135,292,000, to $141,489,000, a $6,197,000 increase YoY or 5%, but that includes licensing guide data, discover (search/recommendation/metadata) and consumer hardware sales/subscriptions. If there was a rosy picture for the consumer hardware end, it would have been split out separately.

Tivo is not investing further in consumer hardware. The Tivo Edge was released October 2019; the Tivo Mini Lux was just the same model as the Vox with a new remote, and even that was released in 2020. Both relied off of CableCARD support heavily (in non-OTA models).

In Q3 2020 (September 2020), Tivo's worst fears on consumer hardware end are realized with the FCC formally ending the CableCARD Mandate.

There's a reason we've seen no new hardware since. The CableCARD mandate ending killed the prospect of developing further Tivo hardware for consumers directly.

If Tivo can make their operating system more beneficial to the point OEM's want to use it and consumers want to buy it, we might get some user experience back. However, the interface isn't the same. And if you're looking for a peanut remote, at least the Panasonic W60A series lacks it:
at least the Panasonic W60A series lacks it:

And, additionally, when we talk about "connected TV advertising" as Xperi's touted benefit to the Tivo smart TV platform, we will be the product in this case as consumers, since we're not buying the hardware/subscriptions directly...

Tivo won't disclose how many subscribers they have (either residential service or paid) on the consumer pay TV end, so it's impossible to say. Some will have had lifetime. Others (like me) were paying $150 a year. Optimum had a little over 18,000 households with cablecards (actual cablecards were more, since some households had multiple) in Q3 2020. If you figure 20% cut cable in the last four years (Optimum in total video subscribers lost 40% of video pay TV subs in 8 yars) at $150/yr (a guess, but with no data hard to say) times 7,220 households (assuming 1 cablecard per) is $10 million dollars.

Experi had a net loss Q3 2024 (before cablecard cancellations on Optimum and potentially elsewhere) of $16.8 million...

I wouldn't call Tivo for consumers "dead", as some here might be able to use it for years to come, if their cableco makes no incompatible changes. But Experi has no focus on putting further effort into it. They're just trying to get the remaining hardware out the door before it's completely worthless.

 

[RemyM]

Finally made it to Optimum to pick up one of their boxes. Had about two weeks after the Tivo stopped working where I basically just used Pluto TV so compared to that, having the Optimum box is better (Pluto is awesome as a backup but my god, the issues). Man do I miss the Tivo interface... the cable box is a UI nightmare in my opinion. Clunky, laggy, no pausing live TV, no rewind or fast forward on live tv (or on demand, which I find surprising and annoying lol). Still disappointed but I do have to watch less TV anyway so it may be a good thing in the long run. Tivo made it too easy.

I wonder what percentage of existing customers had to cancel their service in the last 30 days because of this... Anyone know? I still consider Tivo to be a niche product with a rabid fanbase (not a mass market product) and have to think that having hundreds of customers dropping at once is a big deal. Unless it's really not that many.

What box did you get? I got the Samsung box and it pauses live TV if you get their DVR service. I'm trying to go OTA with my TiVo and use Roku for everything else but currently having an issue picking up WABC and WPIX with the antenna I bought.

 

[stefanomjr]

What about switching to Verizon FiOS?

 

[ITGrouch]

If you want any perspective, the Q3 2024 financial report statement and associated presentation doesn't mention retail at all for Xperi (Tivo's parent company). After mentioning the net loss for the quarter, they talk about TiVo OS for connected TV advertising (an operating system similar to Roku for TVs, over one million TVs shipped primarily in Europe, expecting Tivo Smart TVs in the US this month), DTS AutoStage for connected/intelligent in-dash experiences in automobiles, video-over-broadband (IPTV) implementations with NCTC, MSC & Westman, Panasonic (basically, Xperi/Tivo to MSOs/hardware manufacturers), DTS Clear Dialogue (AI for TVs to have intelligible dialog when watching TV), and sale of Perceive to Amazon.

All of these are commercial deal focus.

Page 14 shows core Pay TV having revenue of $135,292,000, to $141,489,000, a $6,197,000 increase YoY or 5%, but that includes licensing guide data, discover (search/recommendation/metadata) and consumer hardware sales/subscriptions. If there was a rosy picture for the consumer hardware end, it would have been split out separately.

Tivo is not investing further in consumer hardware. The Tivo Edge was released October 2019; the Tivo Mini Lux was just the same model as the Vox with a new remote, and even that was released in 2020. Both relied off of CableCARD support heavily (in non-OTA models).

In Q3 2020 (September 2020), Tivo's worst fears on consumer hardware end are realized with the FCC formally ending the CableCARD Mandate.

There's a reason we've seen no new hardware since. The CableCARD mandate ending killed the prospect of developing further Tivo hardware for consumers directly.

If Tivo can make their operating system more beneficial to the point OEM's want to use it and consumers want to buy it, we might get some user experience back. However, the interface isn't the same. And if you're looking for a peanut remote, at least the Panasonic W60A series lacks it:
at least the Panasonic W60A series lacks it:
View attachment 101113

And, additionally, when we talk about "connected TV advertising" as Xperi's touted benefit to the Tivo smart TV platform, we will be the product in this case as consumers, since we're not buying the hardware/subscriptions directly...

Tivo won't disclose how many subscribers they have (either residential service or paid) on the consumer pay TV end, so it's impossible to say. Some will have had lifetime. Others (like me) were paying $150 a year. Optimum had a little over 18,000 households with cablecards (actual cablecards were more, since some households had multiple) in Q3 2020. If you figure 20% cut cable in the last four years (Optimum in total video subscribers lost 40% of video pay TV subs in 8 yars) at $150/yr (a guess, but with no data hard to say) times 7,220 households (assuming 1 cablecard per) is $10 million dollars.

Experi had a net loss Q3 2024 (before cablecard cancellations on Optimum and potentially elsewhere) of $16.8 million...

I wouldn't call Tivo for consumers "dead", as some here might be able to use it for years to come, if their cableco makes no incompatible changes. But Experi has no focus on putting further effort into it. They're just trying to get the remaining hardware out the door before it's completely worthless.

Xperi is getting out of the retail sales of consumer devices market. TiVo, through Arris (now CommScope) as the device manufacturer, sold hardware to some smaller cable companies, with custom firmware, that use CableCARDs and custom firmware version of the TiVo Mini. TiVo is also selling custom firmware versions of their streaming devices to cable companies. I have a friend that lives in Sioux Falls, SD and the cable company there uses custom firmware Edge and Mini devices. Whether or not any devices are being manufactured for smaller cable companies these days is anyone's guess.

 

[Player01]

What about switching to Verizon FiOS?

That's a fine option if you are able to get cablecards from them. I was able to do this. Some have had issues.

 

[bashf15]

No one knows but Comcast.

Hundreds of customers wouldn’t matter in the slightest.

Tivo users are a drop in the bucket.

I'm an Xfinity customer and have been using Tivo with their cable card for years. Really love Tivo and am reluctant to part with it; however, Xfinity has become way too expensive. They can't offer a competitive deal, so I am switching internet providers and cutting the cord. Guess I'll hold my Roamio Pro, OTA Bolt and two minis in reserve for something. YTTV here we come!

 

[RemyM]

I now have my TiVo Bolt connected to a ClearStream 4V antenna and it's working great. The antenna is on sale on Amazon for $112.49. I'm 33 miles from the NYC broadcast towers. Receiving everything Optimum sells for $53 a month in Basic TV except News 12, C-Span and the cable access channels. You can News 12 on an app if you have internet from Optimum and C-Span has a free app.

 

[northbanker]

Finally made it to Optimum to pick up one of their boxes. Had about two weeks after the Tivo stopped working where I basically just used Pluto TV so compared to that, having the Optimum box is better (Pluto is awesome as a backup but my god, the issues). Man do I miss the Tivo interface... the cable box is a UI nightmare in my opinion. Clunky, laggy, no pausing live TV, no rewind or fast forward on live tv (or on demand, which I find surprising and annoying lol). Still disappointed but I do have to watch less TV anyway so it may be a good thing in the long run. Tivo made it too easy.

For the past 2 weeks I've been trying Optimum's cloud-DVR service. Compared to Tivo it's like the Dark Ages, but it does provide rudimentary recording capability, albeit with much more difficulty for both recording and playback.

With Tivo, I also relied very heavily on their App which allowed me to stream stuff from my Tivos to my iPad or iPhone. So when I saw that Optimum also had an app which purports to do that, I was enthusiastic. But I CANNOT get that Optimum app to work... it always just errors out with "Optimum TV video service is needed to access this app. Please call 888-705-7171 to add. (Code 0-12)" But when I called they were 100% clueless and unhelpful.

Have you or anyone else tried the Optimum app and gotten it to work?

 

[SC42]

For the past 2 weeks I've been trying Optimum's cloud-DVR service. Compared to Tivo it's like the Dark Ages, but it does provide rudimentary recording capability, albeit with much more difficulty for both recording and playback.

With Tivo, I also relied very heavily on their App which allowed me to stream stuff from my Tivos to my iPad or iPhone. So when I saw that Optimum also had an app which purports to do that, I was enthusiastic. But I CANNOT get that Optimum app to work... it always just errors out with "Optimum TV video service is needed to access this app. Please call 888-705-7171 to add. (Code 0-12)" But when I called they were 100% clueless and unhelpful.

Have you or anyone else tried the Optimum app and gotten it to work?

There is the Optimum app, and the newer Optimum.tv app. Once your account comes off from cable card, I believe you’ve got to use the .tv app.

 

[RemyM]

There is the Optimum app, and the newer Optimum.tv app. Once your account comes off from cable card, I believe you’ve got to use the .tv app.

It depends on what equipment you have. If you have the Samsung box, it's the Optimum app, if you have IPTV with the Stream or Apple TV then it's the Optimum TV app.

 

[northbanker]

It depends on what equipment you have. If you have the Samsung box, it's the Optimum app, if you have IPTV with the Stream or Apple TV then it's the Optimum TV app.

I've tried both apps and I get that error on both of them. Do any of you use them successfully?

There is the Optimum app, and the newer Optimum.tv app. Once your account comes off from cable card, I believe you’ve got to use the .tv app.

I have 2 TV's: One of them I've switched from Tivo/Mcard to Samsung box w/ cloud DVR. The other still has a Tivo/Mcard and of course is non-functional. So for the moment, I have a mixed household of one cable card and one Samsung box. Do you think that could be the reason neither of the apps work???

 

[SC42]

I've tried both apps and I get that error on both of them. Do any of you use them successfully?


I have 2 TV's: One of them I've switched from Tivo/Mcard to Samsung box w/ cloud DVR. The other still has a Tivo/Mcard and of course is non-functional. So for the moment, I have a mixed household of one cable card and one Samsung box. Do you think that could be the reason neither of the apps work???

I tried both on my iPad. The Optimum app doesn’t even let me log in anymore. When I turned in my cable card and added Optimum Stream boxes to my account, my service/account was re-coded and I now get full functionality through the Optimum.tv app on iPad, iPhone and Apple TV.

Cable card and Samsung boxes on one account shouldn’t be a problem, as I’ve had that configuration before, and the Optimum app worked on my devices at that time.

2 suggestions if regular support can’t help:
1. Reach out to “ItsOptimum” on Reddit. They knew all about this when I made the switch
2. Try calling this number
8445369501 (Optimum advanced technical department)
It’s an old number (not sure it’s still active) from when I had trouble getting replacement cable cards paired, and they were able to help promptly

 

[wspencerjr60]

Goodbye TiVo

So, what are you guys using for Live TV / DVR?
(OTA not an option, out of range)


View attachment 97871

Where are you?

 

[Tony_T]

Where are you?

i’m using YouTube TV

 

[RemyM]

I've tried both apps and I get that error on both of them. Do any of you use them successfully?

I used the Optimum app when I had the TiVo and Samsung box and I currently use the Optimum TV app now that I switched to fiber and have the Stream box.

 

[wspencerjr60]

i’m using YouTube TV

No, I mean where in the world are you? For instance, I'm in Los Angeles, where are you?

 

[northbanker]

I tried both on my iPad. The Optimum app doesn’t even let me log in anymore. When I turned in my cable card and added Optimum Stream boxes to my account, my service/account was re-coded and I now get full functionality through the Optimum.tv app on iPad, iPhone and Apple TV.

Cable card and Samsung boxes on one account shouldn’t be a problem, as I’ve had that configuration before, and the Optimum app worked on my devices at that time.

2 suggestions if regular support can’t help:
1. Reach out to “ItsOptimum” on Reddit. They knew all about this when I made the switch
2. Try calling this number
8445369501 (Optimum advanced technical department)
It’s an old number (not sure it’s still active) from when I had trouble getting replacement cable cards paired, and they were able to help promptly

That's great advice... THANKS! I may try some/all of it.

I used the Optimum app when I had the TiVo and Samsung box and I currently use the Optimum TV app now that I switched to fiber and have the Stream box.

There's a common thread between your post and SC42's which is that you're both on Stream boxes now. Do you think that the Optimum.TV app is for Stream boxes, and the Optimum app is for the traditional Samsung CATV boxes? And you're saying that the Optimum app used to work fine for your old Samsung CATV box? You didn't get that weird error I posted above about "... video service is needed... please call to add... code 0-12"?

 

[RemyM]

That's great advice... THANKS! I may try some/all of it.


There's a common thread between your post and SC42's which is that you're both on Stream boxes now. Do you think that the Optimum.TV app is for Stream boxes, and the Optimum app is for the traditional Samsung CATV boxes? And you're saying that the Optimum app used to work fine for your old Samsung CATV box? You didn't get that weird error I posted above about "... video service is needed... please call to add... code 0-12"?

Yes, both apps worked fine for me depending on the service I had. The app you use depends on the TV service you have. If you have IPTV service using a stream or Apple TV then you use the Optimum TV app same as those devises use. Traditional cable service on cable card or cable box uses the Optimum app. Unless something has recently changed. Have you tried both apps? Do you have both internet and TV from them? I believe you need both as it has to know if you are connected to your home internet or not.

 

[northbanker]

Yes, both apps worked fine for me depending on the service I had. The app you use depends on the TV service you have. If you have IPTV service using a stream or Apple TV then you use the Optimum TV app same as those devises use. Traditional cable service on cable card or cable box uses the Optimum app. Unless something has recently changed. Have you tried both apps? Do you have both internet and TV from them? I believe you need both as it has to know if you are connected to your home internet or not.

I have traditional cable (coax/CATV), and I'm using their (rudimentary) cloud DVR service on my Samsung box. So I think we've established that I should be using the Optimum app (rather than Optimum.TV app). I've tried both of those apps and I get the same error (posted above)

My experience calling support was beyond pathetic so I'm considering reaching out to the ItsOptimum folks on Reddit, but my brand new Reddit account is not allowing me to chat with them (yet?). I guess I could do a public post but I'd probably rather keep it private so I don't need to worry what info I'm disclosing.

Ah, technology... always such PITA

p.s. I do have Internet from Optimum also, but it's on a separate account so that might turn out to be a problem for the app to work right??