Semi-related note: I wanted to upgrade the router at one of my Comcast accounts (I have two, both with TiVos), so I went into the office. Small town, nothing like walking into Xfinity in Houston, where there's 50 people in line. I was the only one there.

I explained what I wanted, and then told her about TiVo and my cable cards, and how I DIDN'T want to lose them. She was very familiar with the issue. Said most of the time, any change drops the cablecards. But she said let me see what magic I can do.

She ended up simply changing the model number on the modem/router (and giving me a new one), without making any other changes. Presto! New router, no contract changes. TiVo still works.

So with the right help, modest changes can be made without losing your cable cards.

 

She ended up simply changing the model number on the modem/router (and giving me a new one), without making any other changes. Presto! New router, no contract changes. TiVo still works.

So with the right help, modest changes can be made without losing your cable cards.

That makes sense to me. I can think of no logical reason why exchanging rental gateways should trigger any change to the CableCARD status on your Comcast account. Nor, for that matter, should replacing the Comcast gateway with any authorized third-party cable modem and/or router.

 

comcast is moving the chicago sports channels from popular lineup to ultimate. if i switch to that plan, are they going to delete my cable cards from my account? and if i do, will i be able to get them back?

 

That would be changing your TV plan and most likely remove your card with no possible return.
What I would do first before just changing the plan is discuss it with the techs on Comcast Reddit.
Create a post and a mod will come along with a request to send them a modmail.
Then that discussion will be private between you and them.

 

I am slowly transitioning out...getting prepared for the demise of cable card support and/or TiVo DVRs entirely. I cut back my Comcast/Xfinity service to just the minimum # of channels (around 10)...and signed up for YouTube TV...and wound up saving about $10/month. Basically, a wash. Compared to TiVo, I have found YouTube TV user interface to have both pros and cons...but have overall found it to be a more than adequate substitute for TiVo. For sports, YouTube TV is definitely better. Plus, it eliminates the need to switch between HDMI inputs every time I want to switch between my TiVo and Apple TV boxes.

I expect I will drop TiVo/Xfinity combo entirely in the next few months. It will be with some regret. But I don't feel like I have much choice. It's been fun. But the ride's over.

 

I expect I will drop TiVo/Xfinity combo entirely in the next few months. It will be with some regret. But I don't feel like I have much choice. It's been fun. But the ride's over.

Truer words...

I've already had to partially leave the TiVo era due to the loss of my cablecards, using an Xfinity X1 as my primary DVR (tl;dr it sucks), with another TiVo on antenna, but that only gets OTA obviously, and we watch a lot of cable. I'm thinking DirecTV Streaming may be a viable option, as I hear it's closest to the "linear TV" model. I also have DirecTV (satellite) at another location, and am generally happy with it.

 

I just tried to move a cable card from one Tivo to another, which resulted in needing the card to be activated again. I had a Comcast tech come out who told me unequivocally that they no longer support cable cards, won't activate them, won't replace them, nothing. I have one Tivo downstairs with its cable card still working from a year or two ago, but apparently if I remove it and put it back in that Tivo is now a brick. So I think the short answer is, they won't brick your Tivo if it's working today, but whatever you do don't try to move the card to another box, you'll be hosed.

 

Yup. It's clear we are all living on "borrowed time" for cable TiVos. I thought about temporarily stopping my Xfinity service — as a test of whether I would miss it or not — but I figured that would mean disconnecting the connection to the cable card — and I would never get it back again. So I am now on the verge of abandoning TiVo and Xfinity altogether. I have already started using YouTube TV and liking it quite well. I guess I'd rather quit them before they quit me.

 

I just tried to move a cable card from one Tivo to another, which resulted in needing the card to be activated again.

You could have said that you had to replace your hard drive (rather than changing devices) and that you need it to be re-paired. AAMOF, there is an on-line self-service option for this with Comcast. They should have been able to handle this over the phone as well. This does not require a tech visit unless the pairing procedure failed.

but apparently if I remove it and put it back in that Tivo is now a brick.

The general rule of thumb is that you should power off the TiVo before removing/replacing the CableCARD in the same device and it will not change any hardware ID's. Doing this while it is powered on is a crap shoot.

 

You could have said that you had to replace your hard drive (rather than changing devices) and that you need it to be re-paired. AAMOF, there is an on-line self-service option for this with Comcast. They should have been able to handle this over the phone as well. This does not require a tech visit unless the pairing procedure failed.

I have never had to deal with a tech visit to validate a CableCARD. Either the online option, or a call, was able to accomplish it (although sometimes you did need to request the CSR use the big hammer of a grand-slam init).

The general rule of thumb is that you should power off the TiVo before removing/replacing the CableCARD in the same device and it will not change any hardware ID's. Doing this while it is powered on is a crap shoot.

However, in this case, the individual moved the CableCARD to another device. That resets all the CableCARD IDs at power on (and you then can't even move it back without re-validation).

 

However, in this case, the individual moved the CableCARD to another device. That resets all the CableCARD IDs at power on (and you then can't even move it back without re-validation).

Right, but the part I was replying to was

I have one Tivo downstairs with its cable card still working from a year or two ago, but apparently if I remove it and put it back in that Tivo is now a brick.

 

So, I have a BOLT with xfinity active card that is pretty much dead. Im planning to move the CARD to another Roamio I have sitting around that I’d like to use.. I have another BOLT on the account that is still operating (for now) and active.

So, assuming I’m trying to move this active card to another Tivo is the best practice to
A) turn off old tivo, even though it’s not running right, or getting past the boot screen (it’s all flashing light stage right now)
B) remove card
C) put active card in Roamio
D) boot Roamio
E) call the xfinty cable card number (I actually have some inside direct numbers I can try too) and have them re-pair (but not RE-ACTIVATE) the card to the Roamio?

 

So, assuming I’m trying to move this active card to another Tivo is the best practice to
A) turn off old tivo, even though it’s not running right, or getting past the boot screen (it’s all flashing light stage right now)
B) remove card
C) put active card in Roamio
D) boot Roamio
E) call the xfinty cable card number (I actually have some inside direct numbers I can try too) and have them re-pair (but not RE-ACTIVATE) the card to the Roamio?

That's what I would do, and don't mention it's a different TiVo. Just tell them you had to change the hard drive if you have to answer any questions. I would try self-service first.

 

If the "sitting around" Roamio is online and active and happy, yes.

If not, I'd add "Boot Roamio, make sure Roamio is online, updated, happy, stable", etc... before moving the cablecard (in this case, the precious commodity) to it.

 

Going forward that's all that can happen - people post back here with the 'conversation & results'. It might also be interesting to know if CHAT, Tele, Xfinity Store visit or maybe the r/Comcast_Xfinty group was used for the conversation.

 

All,

Have been watching this topic pop up....with varied responses!

I used to work in the back end of the CATV network, administering the CC (cable card) provisioning.
This amounted to "pairing" a card with a specific TiVo. You could transfer the card to another box, as long as the card was in the system, however it wouldn't retain the proper channel map and options selected by customers until the card was refreshed. In some cases, swapping the card would not cause any issues and a user wouldn't know that it hadn't been refreshed.

So this could explain why some have problems and some don't when moving cable cards to a different box...

What you typically cannot do, is use a card from one Cable Co in another's system. When the MSO purchased CC's from Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, they received a "serial number file" that needed to be loaded into the system as a guard against a customer using a card that was not owned by the cable company! They want your rent!!!

Now, the company "could" proclaim no number match needed....and just let it go....register whatever to whatever and it would work on their system.....if they collected the monthly fee after putting in in their system, they I guess they'd collect monthly rent on something that they didn't have to buy! A win for them!

Another HUGE point on the whole abandoning CC's altogether is that all of the Motorola and Cisco DVR's/set top boxes from 8-10 years ago, and maybe the not-DVR set top boxes had internal CC's in them and needed to be dealt with same as would a TiVo box in their CC admin system!

If these STB's are still operational and being used, the cable company probably would not want to dump the CC network, which would then require replacing ALL of the older CC operated STB's with newer technology.

I got out of the business about 9 years ago, so cannot speak to how it is managed today. I will certainly ask one of my contacts that I have lunch with every once in a while about how that is being handled! But from recent conversations, CC's are still being used and QE testing around having CC's active. It may simply be an onboard CC logic, and not portable as with the CC's. I don't know if TiVo has migrated to that......so will ask!

Butt I hope that this helps understand some of what is going on. People hate change....and giving up that OOOOOLD cable box could be hard!! ....and the HUGE (cough cough) number of recordings that they may hold.....

Cheers!
Steve

 

If these STB's are still operational and being used, the cable company probably would not want to dump the CC network, which would then require replacing ALL of the older CC operated STB's with newer technology.

I just last week helped a family member self-install a new Fios VMS4100P2 STB/DVR which has a CableCARD. This was to replace an older QAM STB/DVR. The box is capable of QAM and IP. Currently, Verizon is not providing CableCARDs to new customers. Maybe the intention is to provide boxes with both capabilities for when they shut off QAM.

 

In the “olden” days you could move cards between TiVo boxes and the worst that would happen is you’d lose premium channels. That’s no longer the case as Comcast now encrypts all their channels so the card needs to be paired (not just activated) or it won’t work.

For Motorola cards (at least) the data number is generated any time the host detects the card’s built in ID has changed. That’s why moving a card to another TiVo doesn’t work and why removing and reinserting the card while powered on is a crapshoot.

 

morac,

I think the swapping of cards with boxes that had the same services is something that "may" work......it used to.....cuz I used to do that with my boxes in the lab. I had set up non-encrypted digital channels and I had those that were encrypted, then also there were simulated "packages", ie Showtime channels. Any "packages" (premium chans) missing from one to the other wouldn't happen until it was properly joined and refreshed...

I'm not surprised that all channels are encrypted. Even locals are likely now run thru streamers and managed as any other digital channel. Cuts down on lost revenues!!! ....and the cable companies are all about revenues!

The MSO's don't get a rent fee for a TiVo box, so they would LOVE to not need to support them..... only rent from perhaps the cable cards although the first one "used to" be free......not sure where the FCC stands on this today.

Lunch scheduled with my buddy tomorrow, so may get some further clarification of the fog....!

Cheers!
Steve

 

The MSO's don't get a rent fee for a TiVo box, so they would LOVE to not need to support them..... only rent from perhaps the cable cards although the first one "used to" be free......not sure where the FCC stands on this today.

The FCC stands silently on the sideline. Once the mandate ended, they pretty much lost interest and much of their enforcement power. Despite the lies foisted off on the public to the contrary, deregulation is never, ever good for the consumer.

I've had the same CC for more than a decade in a Roamio, and recently Spectrum in SoCal raised the monthly rental from $2 to $12. $150/year for a piece of hardware I've had for more than ten years.

Between cable and Internet, I'm paying them more than $3,500 a year of after-tax income. I can't wait to kick them to the curb. Between AT&T fiber Internet and (the vastly superior quality of) streaming images and sound, I'm very close to being done.

I've been with TiVo for more than 20 years and as a business owner never understood their financial model of "Buy the hardware, buy a lifetime plan, and we'll support the thing forever." I'll miss my Roamio and four Minis, but such is life. For roughly the same cost as a MiniLux, I can buy as many AplleTV4K boxes as I want and have each one be independent from the others, or not.

 

Doug,

I hear you on all counts! I could never understand the "forever" until I received some company freebies with lifetime support only to quickly find out that we got "the old product" that doesn't support the new digital signalling coming on like a freight train!

AND....."well lifetime only means as long as we (the company) support it......ish...." We gave you the lifetime and we can take it back.......

However in this case, with perhaps the "end" of supported hardware in the not too distant future...happened with perfectly good cell phones that all of a sudden didn't do emergency tracking or calling or some such trash.....and we all needed new "digital" phones.....

The public needed all new "digital antennas" to get the new digital TV signals!!!! Nope, that was a lie too!

Apple has outdated I don't know how many tech devices laying unused in drawers around here......just because they changed something in their backend or don't want to deal with older stuff......

SOOOO, this shouldn't hit anyone as being a new happening.....

IT IS.....extremely disappointing to have such a great technology slip from our fingers....without the ability to do much about stopping it.

While my shop was awaiting a new hard drive for my Bolt (which is still down) my oooold NON-OTA cable only Roamio box came to the rescue to allow at least music streaming!

Having to rely on OTA signals on the Roamio for meaningful entertainment was/IS painful! The commercials are non-stop directed at old people, or people that the industry thinks should be taking more medications..... At least now I can get one or two streaming services if I need....but the cat prefers music....! Frankly, so do I!

Cheers
Steve

 

But you can’t record anything and skip commercials and that’s what it’s all about, saving time.

 

After browsing through this thread, I decided to visit TiVo's website for the first time in awhile. It is telling. If you scroll through the collection of featured items, you will see promotions for (in order): (1) A smart TV Powered by TiVo; (2) TiVo Media Streamer; (3) TiVo Streamer + YouTube TV (!! whoa!); (4) Shudder (service for streaming horror movies); and finally (5) TiVo Edge for cable.

When TiVo itself promotes YouTube TV over its own cable DVR, that should tell you all you need to know. The era of TiVo DVRs is over; the era of cable TV is fading fast. I expect that, within the next couple of years, 90+% of viewers will get their TV content exclusively from streaming.

 

(3) TiVo Streamer + YouTube TV (!! whoa!); (4) Shudder (service for streaming horror movies); and finally (5) TiVo Edge for cable.
When TiVo itself promotes YouTube TV over its own cable DVR, that should tell you all you need to know. The era of TiVo DVRs is over; the era of cable TV is fading fast. I expect that, within the next couple of years, 90+% of viewers will get their TV content exclusively from streaming.

Did you also notice that page promoting YouTube TV hasn't been updated for well over two years? That tells me it's been more than a couple of years that TiVo knew the era of their DVRs was coming to an end. Yet, as recently as this morning, I am still getting those annoying pop-up adds promoting the Edge for Cable at whatever the current sale price is to celebrate (insert anything from a National Holiday to basically the wind changing direction).

 

My cablecard TiVo days ended about 10 days ago, and I must say I don't miss them.

Getting rid of all those noisy TiVo boxes and hard drives running 24/7 is nice. Also, taking out all the different runs of cables feeding the tvs back to media cabinet simplifies things.

I've been testing all the streaming TV services off and on over the past two years. I anticipated this day and was ready with my final choice of DirecTV Stream and Gemini Airs on each TV in the house.

I've been using T-Mobile Internet for the past 9 months and the speeds are nice with the tower across the street.

It's really nice to simplify things with only a 3rd party cellular POE modem/antenna and one Ethernet cable to a WiFi router, and mostly WiFi devices around the house.

 

Was it a forced ending (CableCARD support ended by your cable company)?

 

With Comcast you can change internet plan just do not change anything on TV side.
I just changed to one of the new internet plans to get the unlimited data and my Tivo still works.

 

I've been wanting to do this, but when I go to change the internet plan online, it's showing the unchanged Popular TV w/ Cablecard as $45 more than on my current bill in the total at the bottom, so I've been afraid to risk it.

 

Comcast/Xfinity seems to be taking a different approach. I've lost quite a few channels in my local market to IPTV only. One of the reasons that I moved to DirecTV. Yes, Xfinity may officially support the CableCARD for another six months to a year, but the channels seem to be slowly transitioning to IPTV only.

 

Comcast/Xfinity seems to be taking a different approach. I've lost quite a few channels in my local market to IPTV only.

In most Comcast markets, few existing channels actually moved to IPTV only, but when HD versions of the channels were offered, they were only in IPTV, and most new channels were IPTV only (which, especially for the sports fanatics, meant most of the game channels as Comcast moved all of those to new dedicated channels). As with all else, your market will vary.

 

After another Fios price hike, I decided to check Comcast's current local offerings again. They had Internet, mobile, and streaming TV... only. No traditional TV, or at least, no way to order it that I could find.

 

OK, disregard. I tried it again from a different browser and got a different result (traditional TV offered). I dunno. 🤷

 

Do you like all the commercials you can no longer skip?🤔

 

Get used to it. It's just starting to ramp up. It will achieve 'totally overwhelming obnoxious status' in a couple of years at most.

Even if you opt to pay extra for "no commercials" streaming packages or wear out your TiVo remote's 'skip' button, just about every scene you see has some sort of product placement in it as a commercial - that lingering shot on a car manufacturer's badge or emblem, that nicely lit Coke can on the counter with its label perfectly turned to face camera, branded clothing.

It's been going on for a LONG time - more than a decade ago on the old episodic Bones the two principal characters would wax eloquently and endlessly discussing her new Prius and its features. The NFL is not the bastion of military boosterism they pretend with all those "Tributes to our service men and women", giant flags on the field, and military flyovers timed perfectly with the end of the national anthem being sung - the military pays them millions of dollars each season for those ads. That sort of thing where they work it into the main show goes on endlessly in content.

There is no escaping it, so have some fun, make a game out of "Spot The Product Placement."

 

The main thing I don't like about Directv Stream is the DVR recordings can't be sorted or narrowed down into categories like shows, movies, news, sports, etc. You can't even reverse the chronological order or alphabetize the recordings list. This is one thing that really makes Tivo great. I wonder why DTV Stream doesn't have the ability to sort and narrow recordings? Maybe it's one of those Tivo patents or something.

To get past this I've been using the 5 profiles we can create. I have profiles for tv shows, movies, news, sports, kids. It's not too hard to switch between the profiles. Each profile has guide favorites specific to the type of shows or movies. Not a perfect solution, but until the recordings list can be sorted and narrowed it's better than having everything one long recordings list.

The hardest thing is to remember to go into the specific profile when marking new recordings. For example, things get messed up when watching news and you go into the guide and see movies to record. You have to wait until you are in the movies profile to mark new recordings.

You can bookmark movies and series for finding those fast. Bookmarks don't have a remote shortcut and are kind of buried and take a lot of clicks to get there. Bookmarks can be narrowed down into categories. However, I don't really use bookmarks unless the show I want is buried way down in the recordings list.

My family is also getting used to using Directv Stream and the remote is a big help.

One thing that is nice about this service is you can record everything you want and not have to worry about conflicts like Tivo. However, the more you record in DTV stream the harder it is to find. On the other hand there's a good chance when you find something live in the guide it is already being recorded if you mark a ton of shows to record ahead of time.

 

m I wonder why DTV Stream doesn't have the ability to sort and narrow recordings? Maybe it's one of those Tivo patents or something.

It has nothing to do with patents.

DTV just doesn’t think customers care enough about that “feature” to make it worth their time to code for it.

 

And again, the minor features which started the IP talk were, “The main thing I don't like about Directv Stream is the DVR recordings can't be sorted or narrowed down into categories like shows, movies, news, sports, etc. You can't even reverse the chronological order or alphabetize the recordings list.”

There’s nothing to indicate that the reasons the DTV Stream don’t have those minor, minor sorting features has anything to do with IP or IP licensing.

It’s much more likely those features don’t exist on the DTV stream just because the DTV stream programmers just haven’t coded those options yet. Will they in the future? Who knows. Will most customers care? Doubtful.

 

I hope the Directv Stream customers care. It takes forever to scroll down the recordings list.

 

Followup on a few Directv Stream related items.

Apparently, some users have seen a new DVR Recordings layout with A-Z and categories being tested on their Gemini/Osprey devices. I personally have not seen this yet but I hope it is released soon.

Also, Directv Stream recently implemented the ability to record everything live in the guide from the beginning. I really find this handy when I'm browsing the guide and see a show, movie or event that I didn't record in advance.

 

One more plus of YouTube TV over TiVo that I did not list above: No more separate hardware to purchase and support. That means I no longer have to worry about my Roamio hard drive breaking down...or sudden failure of a mini Lux (which has happened several times) or whether I should purchase a new DVR to get upgraded features (but then have to get a new lifetime subscription).

 

My TIVO still works so far. Why aren’t you guys that lost cable card support just getting a DVR box from Xfinity? I assume they still make them right? Then if the Internet goes down you still have something to watch.

 

Have you ever used the X1? I have (at this time) a TiVo, a DirecTV Genie, and an X1. Ratings:

Tivo: 9.5
Genie: 7
X1: 2

I'm going to switch to DirecTV Stream sometime this fall. Can't stand the X1. I told myself I'd never stream as a main source, that I always wanted a physical DVR. The X1 has made me change my mind.