[Fofer]

LOL - you got me there. How long did it take you to find that?

But, it's worth mentioning, I got the Premiere for $40 or so on Woot. Lifetime was $199 I think. It's a better box in every way, mostly due to the iPad app (and the fact that TiVo stopped any kind of development/support on the S3.) The menu speed never quite improved to the level of the S3 and the SD menus, but at least now it's usable in HD.

I ended up profiting by selling off the S3, too.

"Upgrading" to a 4-tuner box, just so I can use the Mini, even though I only ever need 1 or 2 tuners, and never watch live TV, just isn't happening. TiVo needs to make the Mini work with dynamic tuning, on a 2-tuner box, or I'm not buying anything from TiVo again.

 

[Dan203]

If you only ever need 1-2 tuners then you're not recording enough.

There are only a couple slots a week where I record more then two shows at a time. The main thing I use the 4 tuners in my Elite for is padding. I can pad everything and still never have a conflict. It's pretty nice.

 

[Austin Bike]

The TiVo Mini also has a monthly cost (or a lifetime fee) -- and for now, and maybe forever, requires at least a 4-tuner TiVo to work.

I have a 2-tuner TiVo and will not upgrade just for the Mini. And I'm disappointed (yet again) that TiVo couldn't implement this properly.

I would be willing to bet it has more to do with support and customer sat issues. People would buy the mini then every time they were recoding one show while watching another and another family member turned on the mini, all hell would break out.

From a support standpoint, having 4 tuners means that a mini is less likely to conflict, and that means less likely to generate support calls.

Also, there could be some "secret sauce" in the newer models that prevents it from working with the older models. And let's not forget that tivo wants to sell more units.

 

[dsnotgood]

You also need the TiVo Stream which is $130. Even if they had an app that ran natively on the Apple TV you'd still need the Stream. So cost of entry for an Apple TV + TiVo Stream is almost the same as a TiVo Mini.

True but with the stream you also get the bonus of using it to watch live tv on the tablet too.

 

[Gaidin43]

You don't even need Apple TV to get stream to work on your tv. The new digital av to HDMI lighting cable would work just as well if you were able to set up your phone or tablet using the stream. The mini will have much better quality and most likely be faster then using the stream to Idevice to TV.

The perk about using the stream set up is you could take videos with you, which you can't do with the mini. Another is stream is much cheaper!!!

 

[Fofer]

You don't even need Apple TV to get stream to work on your tv. The new digital av to HDMI lighting cable would work just as well if you were able to set up your phone or tablet using the stream.

I am pretty sure the app prevents video out via HDMI (unless you're jailbroken with a tweak like UnrestrictPremium) though. Have you actually tried it?

 

[Fofer]

I would be willing to bet it has more to do with support and customer sat issues. People would buy the mini then every time they were recoding one show while watching another and another family member turned on the mini, all hell would break out.

From a support standpoint, having 4 tuners means that a mini is less likely to conflict, and that means less likely to generate support calls.

Also, there could be some "secret sauce" in the newer models that prevents it from working with the older models. And let's not forget that tivo wants to sell more units.

Lame reasons. So the mini in that instance would just present the NP list, no live TV option. Or it'd get the 2nd tuner. Regardless, the product ahouldn't be precluded like that. The Premiere and the Premiere 4 are the same except for the 4 tuners instead of the 2.

 

[Arcady]

You don't even need Apple TV to get stream to work on your tv. The new digital av to HDMI lighting cable would work just as well if you were able to set up your phone or tablet using the stream.

The TiVo app specifically blocks output via HMDI or AirPlay. As someone above noted, you need to jailbreak the device to make HDMI work.

Also, the Lightning to HDMI adapter from Apple costs $49. $129 Stream + $49 Adapter = $178. At that point, you're only $72 away from a Mini with lifetime. And you have to leave your iOS device connected to the TV with the first option, so you don't get remote control.

 

[Fofer]

Well, in that case, the iOS device *is* the (tethered) remote control. Just get an A/V extension cable if you have a big living room

 

[Gaidin43]

Stream is about $90 on sale from TiVo.com and the AV cable from Apple on Amazon is about $41. So it comes out to a lot cheaper than buying the mini.

The cost of the mini is way too high to make it worthwhile. And the mini is stationery while the stream with an iOS device can go anywhere in the home very quickly and easily all you would need is an HDMI cable to connect it to your tv.

I am not saying the mini is a bad idea and in the long run might work better for certain people's situations. What I am saying is their pricing structure for the mini with a lifetime on monthly is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Dan203]

Quality and sound are going to be much better with a Mini though. As will the user experience. The Mini will be like using the TiVo itself. The video will be full resolution and have full 5.1 sound. And interacting with the Mini will use the same remote and same UI you're use to.

The Stream converts everything to 720p with 2ch AAC audio. The only trick play options are 8 second rewind and 30 second skip, both of which are significantly slower then the same functions on a real TiVo. Also the UI is designed to a tablet so it's not usable via a remote control.

 

[Fofer]

Right. All good points.

The sad thing is, I'd actually pay the $250 for the Mini... if only TiVo got their heads out of their tushes and made it work on a 2-tuner Premiere. Yeesh.

 

[Dan203]

That will likely come with the dynamic tuner allocation fix later this year. The way it works now you'd have to dedicate a tuner to live TV which would turn your 2 tuner box into a 1 tuner box, and TiVo doesn't see that as a viable option. Plus it acts as a carrot to get people to upgrade from a 2 tuner box to a 4 tuner box.

I did this math for someone in another thread but if you sell your current TiVo for $300, then buy a TiVo 4 and Mini both with lifetime for $900, there is a very high likelihood that you'd be able to sell the TiVo/Mini combo for $600 (or more) 2-3 years from now and essentially the whole purchase would be a wash. And if you saved any money by being able to get rid of a cable box or outlet fee then that would be money in the bank.

TiVo devices with lifetime have a high cost of entry but they retain a large portion of their value over time, so the cost of ownership is actually pretty low.

 

[Fofer]

Sure but that's a hassle and I'd lose my archive of recorded shows (on my internal 2TB drive.
(I also have no interest in manually transferring recordings. Maybe if TiVo could handle it automatically... buy it can't.)


So not worth it, and it'd feel like rewarding TiVo for crap choices and crap programming.

 

[Fofer]

That will likely come with the dynamic tuner allocation fix later this year.

My optimism had faded with this company and their careful wording on this front makes me think it's quite unlikely. One would think their marketing materials would have an asterisk saying "support coming soon."

 

[Dan203]

The only reason I think they will allow it eventually is because it makes the Mini easier to market and support. Although they could use it as a carrot to get people to upgrade to 4 tuner units.

 

[Gaidin43]

Think they will ever allow iOS streaming through AirPlay though? Or even better while away from the home?

 

[Dan203]

Maybe. I think the main reason they block AirPlay is because of restrictions imposed on them by the copyright holders. With the recent addition of AirPlay to HBOGo it could be a sign of those restrictions loosening. And they specifically said that while streaming outside the home is not currently on their agenda for the Stream it wasn't designed out of the product, so it's possible.

Although I wouldn't buy one assuming either feature will be added, because neither one is a guarantee.

 

[tbielowicz]

So I got the Apple TV yesterday. Overall it is a good short term solution but not as easy as just turning on your TV. Plus you can't use your iDevice for anything else during that time.

The PQ is acceptable, but not great. Any suggestions on resolution, screen fit, etc, to make better. Also I noticed some choppiness of the video. Not smooth but acceptable.

Thanks again. In the end I may just have a hybrid of both Apple TV for lower use TVs and TiVo Mini for higher use TVs.

 

[Bigg]

What's the issue with content providers? Why would it be any different than streaming to the iPad in the first place or streaming to a TiVo Mini? Of course the idiocy and hypocrisy of the whole thing is that recaptured component off of a cable box or Premiere is so much higher quality than what gets to the iPad anyways.