There was (is?) a TV that had a DVR built it (Non-TiVo). I do not like combo units, would rather be able to upgrade my TV and keep my TiVo or upgrade my TiVo and keep my TV.
Would you buy a HD TV with TiVo built into it?
I was thinking about all the info floating through a number of threads I have been following and was wondering if it was time for TiVo to partner with someone making HD TVs. To me it seems like a lot of the parts in a HD TiVo are potentially being duplicated in a HD TV (analog/digital tuners, input connectors, cable card readers, power supply, remote, etc.)
In the past I had thought it was a bad idea to put a hard drive into a TV but with Flash memory prices dropping I could now see a setup where the TV used flash memory for the operating system and the buffer and then used an external eSata drive for program storage. That way if there were drive problems the whole TV would not have to be replaced or torn apart, just the eSata external drive.
What do other people think?
In the past I had thought it was a bad idea to put a hard drive into a TV but with Flash memory prices dropping I could now see a setup where the TV used flash memory for the operating system and the buffer and then used an external eSata drive for program storage. That way if there were drive problems the whole TV would not have to be replaced or torn apart, just the eSata external drive.
What do other people think?
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
I would not. In my mind, these items have very different life cycles. Plus, I am generally not a fan of these combo units in electronics.
Same here.bmgoodman said:I would not. In my mind, these items have very different life cycles. Plus, I am generally not a fan of these combo units in electronics.
AT: What is different today that would make this more viable than in the past? I don't see any new compelling reason.
I do see some interest in a PauseTV type feature because DVR-like functions are becoming more the norm for folks. But TiVo is an extremely expensive approach.
It is a horrible idea.
Whenever there would be a failure in one device you would loose both and/or the repair would be more difficult.
The integration of devices is, almost always, a horrid idea that is brought on by the manufacturer's giving in to the laziness and stupidity factor that is becoming pervasive in the US and most other technical cultures.
I know there are exceptions, like cars with radios, but mostly each device should serve its function and be interconnected with other devices as desired not built into them.
Whenever there would be a failure in one device you would loose both and/or the repair would be more difficult.
The integration of devices is, almost always, a horrid idea that is brought on by the manufacturer's giving in to the laziness and stupidity factor that is becoming pervasive in the US and most other technical cultures.
I know there are exceptions, like cars with radios, but mostly each device should serve its function and be interconnected with other devices as desired not built into them.
There are HDTVs out there with what are now crippled DirecTV receivers, and will eventually be useless DirecTV receivers, built in. TVs last a lot longer than set top boxes.
Well Looks like a 100% think this is a bad idea so far.
However I think everyone is missing part of what I had in my original post:
Ask yourself what part of a TiVo is not in a HD TV with cable cards?
Answer:
Pretty much everything else inside a TiVo is inside of an HD TV with cable cards so longevity is not really an issue as it is with a DVD player built into a TV.
The TV would still function without the TiVo service and have the benefits of the buffer and picture in a picture because of the 2 tuners.
Thanks,
However I think everyone is missing part of what I had in my original post:
Ask yourself what part of a TiVo is not in a HD TV with cable cards?
Answer:
- A modem - I think TiVo would like to get away from dialup so the TV could be built to only have TiVo functionality if you have High speed access.
- An integrated Network card
- A hard drive - The hard drive can be dealt with by going to external eSata and using flash in the TV for the operating system and buffer.
Pretty much everything else inside a TiVo is inside of an HD TV with cable cards so longevity is not really an issue as it is with a DVD player built into a TV.
The TV would still function without the TiVo service and have the benefits of the buffer and picture in a picture because of the 2 tuners.
Thanks,
To go against the tide here, I'd be interested. It would depend on the details of the TV and TiVo, but in theory I like the idea of a combo unit. My S1 has been going strong for 8 years now, so I don't feel the life cycle difference is too big of a deal.
When done right combo devices can really complement each other. I love how my TiVo DVD recorder has all the trickplay features that I've gotten used to, built right into the DVD interface. An extra bonus is I never have to switch inputs on my TV, and I have extra connections available for consoles.
The perfect TV combo unit for me would be in a 32" or 37" LCD TV and have the TiVo and DVD built in. That would be a good size for a bedroom TV and there wouldn't be any cable mess, just a single power cord. I probably wouldn't even plug in cable, but use it just for MRV and to transfer shows from the computer.
-Dylan
When done right combo devices can really complement each other. I love how my TiVo DVD recorder has all the trickplay features that I've gotten used to, built right into the DVD interface. An extra bonus is I never have to switch inputs on my TV, and I have extra connections available for consoles.
The perfect TV combo unit for me would be in a 32" or 37" LCD TV and have the TiVo and DVD built in. That would be a good size for a bedroom TV and there wouldn't be any cable mess, just a single power cord. I probably wouldn't even plug in cable, but use it just for MRV and to transfer shows from the computer.
-Dylan
All of this has been true since TiVo shipped its first DVR in 1999. What has changed?atmuscarella said:Ask yourself what part of a TiVo is not in a HD TV with cable cards?
Answer:
- A modem - I think TiVo would like to get away from dialup so the TV could be built to only have TiVo functionality if you have High speed access.
- An integrated Network card
- A hard drive - The hard drive can be dealt with by going to external eSata and using flash in the TV for the operating system and buffer.
Pretty much everything else inside a TiVo is inside of an HD TV with cable cards
At least you'll let me watch TV without paying TiVo $16.95/mo.
I did get your point which is why I ask 'what has changed?,' and mention PauseTV and TiVo cost.The TV would still function without the TiVo service and have the benefits of the buffer and picture in a picture because of the 2 tuners.
the thing is that TVs just take the signal and display it. The Tuners are different in a TiVo since it has to take the analog signal and encode it to MPEG2. The buzz would be that the TV is degrading the analog signal if there was not an option to bypass the hard drive and then people would say - so why have it then?HDTiVo said:Same here.
AT: What is different today that would make this more viable than in the past? I don't see any new compelling reason.
I do see some interest in a PauseTV type feature because DVR-like functions are becoming more the norm for folks. But TiVo is an extremely expensive approach.
from a Tivo standalone perspective from those of us that like DVRs the TV would need to have MRV/TTG or else it is not an S2. Also with the advent of DT units the TV would Nedi to have 3 sets of tuners and OTA to do what a TV with a TiVo DVR would do.
so the pause of DIGITAL TV would keep the TV doing what it does now while adding in the distinct advantage of trick play and of course a small hard drive could do lots of trick play but then there is something the TV maker would need to be easily replaceable.
+1bmgoodman said:I would not. In my mind, these items have very different life cycles. Plus, I am generally not a fan of these combo units in electronics.
The concern with solid state memory based PauseTV is that the flash dies in 2-3 yrs and the TV lasts 10 years. But it is a simple problem - use an SD slot and put up a "please change the SD card" screen when necessary. After all, its easier and MUCH cheaper than changing the frickin' bulb. Also makes PauseTV upgradable to full blown DVR over the years.ZeoTiVo said:so the pause of DIGITAL TV would keep the TV doing what it does now while adding in the distinct advantage of trick play and of course a small hard drive could do lots of trick play but then there is something the TV maker would need to be easily replaceable.
Ok - looks like most of us don't like integrated products. Why did I bring this up know?
And the rest of the story is:
Well because something is changing. Samsung will be introducing a wireless line of plasma TVs this fall - guess what no connections on the TV except power and the wireless receiver. The TV comes with an STB to connect everything to and to transmit the signal to the TV (the TV is a 1080p set and can send a full 1080p signal wirelessly).
Now does anyone see the possibilities? How much more would it really cost to have the STB also be a Series 3 Tivo?
Thanks,
And the rest of the story is:
Well because something is changing. Samsung will be introducing a wireless line of plasma TVs this fall - guess what no connections on the TV except power and the wireless receiver. The TV comes with an STB to connect everything to and to transmit the signal to the TV (the TV is a 1080p set and can send a full 1080p signal wirelessly).
Now does anyone see the possibilities? How much more would it really cost to have the STB also be a Series 3 Tivo?
Thanks,
As long as I could easily upgrade the hard drive, I really see no problem with it. Other than the fact that:
1. Many complain about HEAT and NOISE from various Tivo's.
2. Size of added components (namely the hard drive) will make flat panel TV BIGGER (assuming use of 3.5 inch HD vs. 2.5 inch HD's that are more expensive).
I like the idea of having less boxes hooked-up to the TV. Over the year, I had a cable box and VCR. I switched to a DTV STB and VCR. Then DTV combo units and DVD plater. I currently have DTV Combo Units and DVD/VCR combo on 2 of 3 TV's. The 3rd TV(17 inch) has a built-in DVD player. The DVD player is currently broken. It is not cost-effctive to fix the TV (paid less than $100 3 years ago), especially with my upcoming switch to all HDTV's.
1. Many complain about HEAT and NOISE from various Tivo's.
2. Size of added components (namely the hard drive) will make flat panel TV BIGGER (assuming use of 3.5 inch HD vs. 2.5 inch HD's that are more expensive).
I like the idea of having less boxes hooked-up to the TV. Over the year, I had a cable box and VCR. I switched to a DTV STB and VCR. Then DTV combo units and DVD plater. I currently have DTV Combo Units and DVD/VCR combo on 2 of 3 TV's. The 3rd TV(17 inch) has a built-in DVD player. The DVD player is currently broken. It is not cost-effctive to fix the TV (paid less than $100 3 years ago), especially with my upcoming switch to all HDTV's.
$300 plus $16.95/mo.atmuscarella said:Now does anyone see the possibilities? How much more would it really cost to have the STB also be a Series 3 Tivo?
Why not integrate the HiDef DVD player into the box too for another $300?
Tivo is on it's 4th major hardware revision (Series 1, 2, 2.5, and 3) since I got the TV I have. Sure, it's not a big HDTV, but if I had invested in an HDTV (which I will soon) I will definitely be keeping it a lot longer than my SDTV. The main thing that has changed has been tuner types and hard drive capacities, and now hard drive types. My first tivo was a 14 hour series 1. One MPEG 2 encoder/decoder and an EIDE hard drive.atmuscarella said:Well Looks like a 100% think this is a bad idea so far.
However I think everyone is missing part of what I had in my original post:
Ask yourself what part of a TiVo is not in a HD TV with cable cards?
Answer:
- A modem - I think TiVo would like to get away from dialup so the TV could be built to only have TiVo functionality if you have High speed access.
- An integrated Network card
- A hard drive - The hard drive can be dealt with by going to external eSata and using flash in the TV for the operating system and buffer.
Pretty much everything else inside a TiVo is inside of an HD TV with cable cards so longevity is not really an issue as it is with a DVD player built into a TV.
The TV would still function without the TiVo service and have the benefits of the buffer and picture in a picture because of the 2 tuners.
Thanks,
Now we're up to series 3 which has 4 tuners, ATSC/QAM, and SATA drives. Plus, there is a chance that Tivo could at some point get back into combo boxes with DirecTV, or sign a deal with Dish, or who knows what will happen.
It's just a really bad idea when you look at the life cycle of a Tivo box vs. the life cycle of a TV. I've had 4 tivos and a Scientific Atlanta DVR. If I had a TV with a built in DVR, it would more or less be a waste.
There is a lot more to a Tivo than a modem and hard drive. TVs don't have processors nearly as powerful as Tivos do, for starters.
I kinda like the idea, but for a different reason. I wouldn't mind putting a small tv (19") in the kitchen that would have built in tuners, tivo function and possibly a dvd player. THe last thing I want in my kitchen is a tv with 2-3 other components attached to it.
I suppose with this wireless transmitter, I could de-clutter the area and stash all the components somewhere else. Although I doubt anyone would include that kind of functionality for such a low margin small tv.
I suppose with this wireless transmitter, I could de-clutter the area and stash all the components somewhere else. Although I doubt anyone would include that kind of functionality for such a low margin small tv.
If you weren't willing to pay for the TiVo service then you wouldn't be buying to the TV/TiVo combo. TiVo's service fee isn't what I was talking about and stating that the few extra components that wouldn't be in the TV's STB to have it become a combine STB/DVR will add as much cost as the Series 3 light's retail price is fairly absurd.Originally Posted by HDTiVo
$300 plus $16.95/mo.
Why not integrate the HiDef DVD player into the box too for another $300?
Because hard drives and DVD/HiDef DVD players potentially have a higher failure rates than non moving electronics, I wouldn't integrate them, eSata provides an acceptable exterior solution for both while maintaining a single component inter-phase.
ok that is really cool idea adn lets you hang the TV anywhere. But I can still just hook an S3 up to the box that came with the TV using HDMI and stick both in a cabinet.atmuscarella said:Ok - looks like most of us don't like integrated products. Why did I bring this up know?
And the rest of the story is:
Well because something is changing. Samsung will be introducing a wireless line of plasma TVs this fall - guess what no connections on the TV except power and the wireless receiver. The TV comes with an STB to connect everything to and to transmit the signal to the TV (the TV is a 1080p set and can send a full 1080p signal wirelessly).
Now does anyone see the possibilities? How much more would it really cost to have the STB also be a Series 3 Tivo?
Thanks,
It still does not adress the fact of needing 3 sets of tuners in the TV box and the encoder/decoder to record analog TV for TiVo functionality. A TV would just need one set of tuners and no encoder/decoder at all to simply pass through and display the signal.. That would make the TV a lot more expensive to manufacture.
Wireless idea is great for a flat panel though :up:
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