TiVo Community Forum banner
  • TiVoCommunity.com Ambassador Program Now Open! >>> Click Here

What's the future plan for TiVo?

22K views 81 replies 53 participants last post by  dlfl 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,
I've had TiVos since day 1, series 1. My wife and I have loved them. I'm currently rocking a Bolt and a couple of Minis. But I've been so disappointed with what seems like a lack of growth/innovation. It seems like it's been 2 years now since the latest interface update which seemed like a step backwards--not being able to go 'back' through the menu and having to hit TiVo home button and start from the top and other little silly things. I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo.

This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die. But with all the streaming services and lack of innovation, I'm looking for some reassurance that they have something up their sleeve.

Thanks for any insight!
Brent
 
#3 ·
I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo.

This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die.
Hopefully you have many more years of life left in you than TiVo CableCARD DVRs do. All of the major cable operators, including Comcast, have it on their long-term roadmap to eventually change the technology they use to transmit cable TV channels from traditional QAM to streaming IPTV, rendering their systems incompatible with CableCARD devices like TiVo DVRs. Comcast has been very slowly transitioning from QAM to IPTV for nearly a decade now, running both systems side by side, with a few of their newest channels only available on IPTV. Earlier generation X1 boxes were compatible with both QAM and IPTV but the latest ones they've been giving out (as well as their Xfinity Stream app for devices like Roku and Fire TV) only do IPTV. TiVos only do QAM. They cannot access IPTV channels.

At some point -- no one knows when -- Comcast will completely shut down QAM and only offer cable TV service over IPTV. Could be in a year, might be five years from now. When they upgrade the network in an area from the current DOCSIS 3.1 broadband standard to DOCSIS 4.0 is a logical point when that could happen, although Comcast hasn't said so. They've announced that at least some areas will get upgraded to DOCSIS 4.0, allowing multi-gig internet speeds in both directions, in 2023. Will be interesting to see if QAM TV gets shut down in those markets at that time.

Meanwhile, TiVo knows that its DVR business is in irreversible decline, so it has no reason to invest money in evolving/improving it any further at this point. The thing they're chasing now is trying to become a smart TV software provider, using their "TiVo OS" as the built-in software and streaming app platform for 2nd and 3rd-tier TV brands around the world.

Bottom line: if you like your TiVo DVRs and Comcast cable TV service as they currently exist, there's no reason to dump them. But you shouldn't expect them to change or get better. And you should expect that, at some point this decade, they'll cease working. But that day could still be a long way off.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Hopefully you have many more years of life left in you than TiVo CableCARD DVRs do. All of the major cable operators, including Comcast, have it on their long-term roadmap to eventually change the technology they use to transmit cable TV channels from traditional QAM to streaming IPTV, rendering their systems incompatible with CableCARD devices like TiVo DVRs. Comcast has been very slowly transitioning from QAM to IPTV for nearly a decade now, running both systems side by side, with a few of their newest channels only available on IPTV. Earlier generation X1 boxes were compatible with both QAM and IPTV but the latest ones they've been giving out (as well as their Xfinity Stream app for devices like Roku and Fire TV) only do IPTV. TiVos only do QAM. They cannot access IPTV channels. At some point -- no one knows when -- Comcast will completely shut down QAM and only offer cable TV service over IPTV. Could be in a year, might be five years from now. When they upgrade the network in an area from the current DOCSIS 3.1 broadband standard to DOCSIS 4.0 is a logical point when that could happen, although Comcast hasn't said so. They've announced that at least some areas will get upgraded to DOCSIS 4.0, allowing multi-gig internet speeds in both directions, in 2023. Will be interesting to see if QAM TV gets shut down in those markets at that time. Meanwhile, TiVo knows that its DVR business is in irreversible decline, so it has no reason to invest money in evolving/improving it any further at this point. The thing they're chasing now is trying to become a smart TV software provider, using their "TiVo OS" as the built-in software and streaming app platform for 2nd and 3rd-tier TV brands around the world. Bottom line: if you like your TiVo DVRs and Comcast cable TV service as they currently exist, there's no reason to dump them. But you shouldn't expect them to change or get better. And you should expect that, at some point this decade, they'll cease working. But that day could still be a long way off.
That is an impressive amount info and specific details. I have two thoughts…and I have Spectrum Cable Card: 1) What to do when TiVo Unit dies…it is 3 year old spinning HD, so anticipating sooner than later. 2) With Roku, Firestick plugged into the TV also, along with Apple TV, AmazonPrime, Netflix, Paramount+…should I even continue with TiVo at this point. We still record a few broadcast shows…and I like watching TiVo recorded shows WAY more than a streaming show. But everything is adding up, that is for sure.
 
#6 ·
Streaming is the future period. The content distributors get more control and no longer have to deal with last mile contracts. It has also magnified choice. No longer do you buy a cable package with all Peacocks(NBC)/Paramounts(CBS)/Disney(ABC) bundled. You can pick and choose and drop in and drop out as you wish. Wait for all the shows to be out and subscribe for a month and then leave.
 
#10 ·
There's no reason TiVo can't work with the MSOs to catch their IPTV streams. They could even partner with DirecTV Stream and sell TiVo TV with an online DVR and their patented commercial autoskip.

The problem is they seem to have no interest in this. I'm sure they've looked into it and done the financial forecasts. It's probably just not a thing that will make them profitable.
 
#12 ·
Actually there’s a very good reason they can’t “catch” the IPTV streams. There’s no universal standard so any retail device wouldn’t work with any provider.

As for “they could partner with DirecTV Stream”… sure, if DTV or any partner wants to. But they don’t. DTV doesn’t need them, the same reason their DVR hardware partnership ended - it ceased being necessary for DTV.
 
#13 ·
I think it's more about the MSOs not wanting third parties to do their DVR. I mean, look what happened after the CableCARD mandate died - the majors basically dropped support for it as fast as they could (there are threads on which cable providers still support it, which ones basically grandfather it in, and which ones aren't going to even bother).

The DVR is a "branding" experience so MSOs will be able to run their own content on the menus and such - i.e., ads and other marketing stuff. You use their stuff, they want you to know about it.

Plus, things like IPTV mean they can move the DVR to the cloud which they really like the idea of - suddenly you're forced to obey their whims. Like if they have a popular show they don't want you to skip ads on, a cloud DVR can block that from happening. Something like TiVo or your own DVR on premises is less likely to disallow skipping.

TiVo represents their worst nightmare in allowing the consumer to control the TV watching experience.
 
#49 ·
I think it's more about the MSOs not wanting third parties to do their DVR. I mean, look what happened after the CableCARD mandate died - the majors basically dropped support for it as fast as they could (there are threads on which cable providers still support it, which ones basically grandfather it in, and which ones aren't going to even bother).
The most that has happened with cable cards are unsubstantiated reports in some areas (not widespread) that one or two providers don’t issue new cards

Besides those hit-and-miss reports not a single major cable company has made any official change in CC support policy.

Saying that major companies dropped support “as fast as they could” is not even close to what actually is happening.
 
#15 ·
Streaming as it is today won't last a whole lot longer. Companies are finding out that the profit margins of direct delivery are suffering. In the beginning they were huge as Netflix was enjoying but now, they see that there is an end to a growing number of subscribers and dumping huge quantities of money into new streaming content can't last. Selling access to bundlers like Comcast was more profitable. Somehow the business model will return to something like that.

The beauty of Comcast (cable providers) is channel surfing. Try bouncing around to avoid commercials with streamers, it's impossible. Also, try to get 2 TVs in sync to watch Thursday Night Football from Amazon Prime each TV with its own Fire Stick.

Classic TiVo coupled with cable is still the best experience.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Streaming as it is today won't last a whole lot longer. Companies are finding out that the profit margins of direct delivery are suffering. In the beginning they were huge as Netflix was enjoying but now, they see that there is an end to a growing number of subscribers and dumping huge quantities of money into new streaming content can't last. Selling access to bundlers like Comcast was more profitable. Somehow the business model will return to something like that.

The beauty of Comcast (cable providers) is channel surfing. Try bouncing around to avoid commercials with streamers, it's impossible. Also, try to get 2 TVs in sync to watch Thursday Night Football from Amazon Prime each TV with its own Fire Stick.

Classic TiVo coupled with cable is still the best experience.
I politely totally disagree. Comcast is losing TV subscribers at a fast pace. Direct TV is doing poorly as well. With streaming I can watch a whole back catalog. I don't watch broadcast anymore except for news and maybe some late shows to end the day. Even the traffic in this forum relative to TV shows shows people are posting much more about accessing shows via streaming then they are about traditional guide viewing.

When I watch PBS shows I prefer to go through the PBS app as they appear earlier. The problem in general is the rising competition from things like YouTube and other media services. We also have a YouTube premium subscription and that is where I would say the equivalent of our channel surfing lies. My wife use to record all the cooking shows as her go to's. Now it's all about her favorite cooking people in YouTube. She almost never looks at FoodTV anymore.

The kids today already get that. They are essentially building their own TV channels through their preferences not trying to align some network definition of preference called a TV channel.

The problem isn't streaming is that content creation is expensive and we are having increasing competition. The streamers don't lock you into contracts so it's easy to dump and return. The original streamers like Netflix use to have a consistent subscriber but with all the competition they are becoming part of the churn.

Also at least for me traditional cable was way more expensive. I use to pay $160 for internet/TV/phone and that was on a discounted contracted rate. It also included HBO.
Now I get gig speed internet for $60
YouTube TV for $55 (Part of me wonders if I should keep this as I spend little time here)
HBO for free with ATT
Netflix for free with T-Mobile
Apple TV+ for free with T-Mobile
A host of others like Paramount Plus and Hulu with AmEx offer discounts

My total is maybe $120 which gives me a lot of breathing room.

I would never go back to the limitations of traditional cable and Tivo. The wife agrees.
 
  • Like
Reactions: osu1991
#16 ·
ChannelsDVR for TVE and OTA is where TiVo should have branched, if they were interested in doing so. It is apparent that they are not interested in surviving as a DVR.

And I agree that Classic TiVo is still the best DVR experience. Cable shouldn't be necessary in that equation.
 
#17 ·
I too have used TiVo for 20 years. For me, the problem with switching is streaming is still terrible for sports. Both visually and financially. I have great Internet speeds, but the streams still look terrible for fast action (and of course they are also minutes behind real time).
Financially, the cost of all the streaming services to see regular TV, MLB, and NHL is too much compared to the plans I've locked in with FIOS (NFL is thankfully still mostly on local channels).

Hopefully things improve before TiVO/Cable is gone.
 
#51 ·
I too have used TiVo for 20 years. For me, the problem with switching is streaming is still terrible for sports. Both visually and financially. I have great Internet speeds, but the streams still look terrible for fast action (and of course they are also minutes behind real time).
Financially, the cost of all the streaming services to see regular TV, MLB, and NHL is too much compared to the plans I've locked in with FIOS (NFL is thankfully still mostly on local channels).

Hopefully things improve before TiVO/Cable is gone.
I'm with you, JimmyS. Until I tried FuboTV on an Apple TV 4K -- the Multiview experience is incredible. I'm able to watch up to 4 live streams but usually only manage toggling between three games.
 
#18 ·
Hi Everyone,
I've had TiVos since day 1, series 1. My wife and I have loved them. I'm currently rocking a Bolt and a couple of Minis. But I've been so disappointed with what seems like a lack of growth/innovation. It seems like it's been 2 years now since the latest interface update which seemed like a step backwards--not being able to go 'back' through the menu and having to hit TiVo home button and start from the top and other little silly things. I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo.

This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die. But with all the streaming services and lack of innovation, I'm looking for some reassurance that they have something up their sleeve.

Thanks for any insight!
Brent
I have had TiVo forever too and loved it. We use it to record from an antennae. However, when I bought the last update, it would not longer receive CBS and PBS after about six in the afternoon. Those local stations swore they did nothing different, but I know they did something because it worked in the day time. Because we watch those two networks frequently, we changed to You Tube TV. We still have TiVo and I try to keep it up to date because we sometimes watch a show that had a streaming problem on You Tube TV. We keep saying we need to drop it because we essentially pay $12.95 for nothing every month. Some day we will. I assume theTiVo receivers have not improved.\
T
 
#26 ·
We have had a problem several times with our antenna not tuning in at certain times of the day (and at certain times of year). I think our issue actually had more to do with the broadcast stations changing something about the way they sent the signal. We solved it once by replacing our signal booster. We solved it another time, by repositioning our antenna and then retuning the station on the TIVO.
 
#19 ·
TiVos not gonna die off, contrary to all. They’ll shrink for sure, but with the right management, they can live on.

The parent company owns the DVR patent so they will live on from that (as long as live TV is relevant). TiVo does have partnerships with smaller providers like RCN & Mediacom who want DVRs but don’t wanna pay the X1 tax like Sh!tC@st/Charter joint venture & Cox licenses. And TiVo does have an IPTV platform available for these service operators (I think RCN is issuing TiVo IPTV client boxes to new customers). For everyone else, there are smaller providers that will probably stay on QAM for more years, but tivo will probably stop making CableCARD boxes and fixate on antenna customers (CableCARD users can buy on the secondary market). Spectrum has a whoLe plan of mid split rollout that will eliminate Out of Band spectrum that the cablecards communicate with & Verizons new ONTs don’t even have RFoG cable so the end is near.

TiVo OS will not live on, developers and Linux TiVo sdk is a little awkward. If it were, we’d have MORE apps for existing TiVos. The rest of their consumer market relies on Android TV OS
 
#20 ·
Hi Everyone, I've had TiVos since day 1, series 1. My wife and I have loved them. I'm currently rocking a Bolt and a couple of Minis. But I've been so disappointed with what seems like a lack of growth/innovation. It seems like it's been 2 years now since the latest interface update which seemed like a step backwards--not being able to go 'back' through the menu and having to hit TiVo home button and start from the top and other little silly things. I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo. This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die. But with all the streaming services and lack of innovation, I'm looking for some reassurance that they have something up their sleeve. Thanks for any insight! Brent
you
 
#22 ·
Hi Everyone,
I've had TiVos since day 1, series 1. My wife and I have loved them. I'm currently rocking a Bolt and a couple of Minis. But I've been so disappointed with what seems like a lack of growth/innovation. It seems like it's been 2 years now since the latest interface update which seemed like a step backwards--not being able to go 'back' through the menu and having to hit TiVo home button and start from the top and other little silly things. I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo.

This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die. But with all the streaming services and lack of innovation, I'm looking for some reassurance that they have something up their sleeve.

Thanks for any insight!
Brent
You’re lucky, I lost cable card use from Spectrum (Comcast’s) in August. I picked up 2 DVRs to replace my TiVos. One kept failing, I replaced it, the replacement failed. I had them send a technician out to work on it. After 1/2 an hour he got it to work. A week later, it failed. I gave it back to them. I’m looking to replace Spectrum with streaming services. Any suggestions?
Walt
 
#23 ·
I only noticed one reference to OTA here although I didn't read every message. I use TiVo and a rural Tennessee. I'll use it for OTA only. Works fine. I have an outdoor antenna. I get all the main broadcast channels for free. That was the basis of TiVo when I first started with the original TV also many years ago. I ditched satellite TV cable isn't even available where I live. So I have streaming services and Starlink. I stream most content and some things that get only through the TiVo and it doesn't cost me anything because I bought two Bolts when they first came out and they had lifetime service. I do think it said that tivo DVRs are probably going to disappear because they were always the best. The cable companies could never get it right. And even the cable companies that adopted TiVos as their own DVR. They still didn't get it right.
 
#67 ·
I'm still chugging along doing OTA on my old Premier XL HD (on its second or third Hard Drive).
I keep debating about upgrading to a Bolt (or something newer, if thats an option).
How do you like it?
I hear OTA is about to go through another "evolution" to ATSC3.0 ( Over-the-Air TV Signals Bright Future ) so I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that TiVo MIGHT put out a new OTA model that supports this new standard.
 
#25 ·
The problem started when TiVo locked down the hardware with encryption. Had they not done that, it would have continued to be a force to be reckoned with--a robust ecosystem of FOSS development, options and features. And they've totally bombed on the whole streaming thing. Streaming is, in every way, a step back in both viewer experience and rights. As noted, it puts absolute control back in the hands of the providers. What you can watch tomorrow won't be the same as today if the provider decides to pull content, and they control whether you can skip content--or adverts--not the local box. Deciding to cut the cord is a nightmare--finding out what you consider important, then finding the right stream. Keeping track of your subscriptions. And so on.

But the very worst is the loss of all the One Pass functionality. I accept that recording is dead, but the ability to tell the machine "I want to know all current episodes of these streams, and which ones I've already seen" without MY having to keep a list and schedule my time to go check manually would still be a huge win over current streaming options. And I have to believe that the fine control over the playback would be far better.
 
#28 ·
On the cable card part, I had a Cox rep inside for an issue recently, he couldn't say enough that TiVo was dead, he couldn't touch the cable card, they had no new cards, TiVo is dying give it up. That's the kind of cable feedback you get about TiVo these days...

DrWeb
 
#56 ·
Ha! When the Comcast/Xfinity installer set us up in our current house a few months ago he just had to comment about how no one has TiVos anymore, that their DVRs were far superior. I asked him if their DVR had 7TB of recording space. "Um, er, no". Do they have 10 tuners that can record 10 different programs simultaneously while playing back two other recordings? "Um, well, no". So the TiVos I have are actually superior then? "Well, um... okay, gotta go." :rolleyes: ;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: lmcdcr
#30 · (Edited)
That is an impressive amount info and specific details. I have two thoughts…and I have Spectrum Cable Card:
1) What to do when TiVo Unit dies…it is 3 year old spinning HD, so anticipating sooner than later.
2) With Roku, Firestick plugged into the TV also, along with Apple TV, AmazonPrime, Netflix, Paramount+…should I even continue with TiVo at this point.

We still record a few broadcast shows…and I like watching TiVo recorded shows WAY more than a streaming show. But everything is adding up, that is for sure.
 
#31 ·
Hi Everyone,
I've had TiVos since day 1, series 1. My wife and I have loved them. I'm currently rocking a Bolt and a couple of Minis. But I've been so disappointed with what seems like a lack of growth/innovation. It seems like it's been 2 years now since the latest interface update which seemed like a step backwards--not being able to go 'back' through the menu and having to hit TiVo home button and start from the top and other little silly things. I'd love to stay with TiVo and honestly that's the only reason I'd keep Comcast at this point. I'm almost ready to jump to YouTube TV and ditch Comcast and TiVo.

This isn't a complain about TiVo vent. I'm really hoping someone has an idea of what their plans are for the future. I'd love to stay with TiVo until I die. But with all the streaming services and lack of innovation, I'm looking for some reassurance that they have something up their sleeve.

Thanks for any insight!
Brent
My older Bolt with cable card stopped working for any of the Apps for streami8ng, so I added a $49 Roku box to my setup. I only use the Tivo to record a few things, like the late night talk shows, some PBS and Discover/History channel shows. I'm going to let my Tivo die a natural death and not replace it once it's well and truly dead. If the cable changes make it obsolete before that, so be it. While I've also been a Tivo customer since their 1st year in business, most of what I want to watch is streamed from somewhere other than Comcast/Xfinity these days. Tivo had a good run and it was a good product. But like a lot of tech, progress is going to sideline it sooner than later.
 
#32 ·
Ok here is an Idea for someone. Take an OS like TiVo which I have several and have had for many years. Port it to android or?? . Then have it run as an app that like a DVR can record to a USB drive on the TV just like we currently do. We would have all the current functionality It would be just like a TiVo built-in. My current Google TV can read up to a 8TB USB 3.0 drive.
 
#33 ·
I purchased 2 edge's (junk) just before my tv provider announced they were ending new tv service. Internet service is only available to new customers. I pay a premium to stay connected to the last of their television service.
There will be more bundling between streaming services, as seen already with Disney and Hulu. Internet providers will likely be providing the bundles as it will be more cost effective for the content providers to reach a larger client base.
 
#35 ·
I think OTA broadcasters will have more challenges going ahead. I think OTA has been subsidized by cable subscribers to some extent, so there has been motivation to put higher quality content there to keep those carriage agreements in place. But as cable tv subs have fallen there are fewer people paying these fees. We have been seeing established shows moving from broadcast to the streaming networks and NBC has been floating the idea of dropping to 2 hours of prime time, like FOX has always been.

It would be nice if Tivo supported ATSC 3 because it is much easier to receive, but I don't think it will be a problem for several years. The current strategy is to have one or two ATSC3 stations carry the primary .1 signal of all the main stations.
 
#38 ·
I am not sure if this is addressed anywhere in the forums, but Spectrum so far has not announced an end date for CableCards. They only have 17,000 customers using CableCards but I was talking to the Cable Card Department and they told me it is being talked about. It may not be for years but it is going to happen. I was told that we will receive a letter about it long in advance of the change. Just an FYI for anyone wondering about this who are Spectrum Customers. I just got me a new EDGE for $149.99 under the Continual Care program and would at least like to let it get dusty before retiring it. :eek:
 
#39 ·
Have been a Tivo customer since Series 2 (my two Series 2's sit gathering dust since Comcast went to all-digital).

Been running a Premiere for about 10 years. Recently been worrying that it's close to time for the Premiere to die, so when I found out I could still get a cablecard from Comcast I bought a used Roamio on eBay. Hedged my bets by getting a Roamio that is both cablecard and OTA.

Dreading the day Comcast stops supporting my cablecards. I have tried various streaming solutions and none of them hold a candle to Tivo's convenience. I spoke with Comcast customer service and asked how much longer they will support cablecard. I was told as long as I stay on my current Comcast plan I should not have a problem. Not sure I believe that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top