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I am also a Tivo owner and lover since Series 1. And I'm disappointed Tivo hasn't moved forward. At this point Tivo's big plus is commercial skip. But the BIG downside is not having On Demand, so we still use the Comcast box. We also have a fire stick. Although I love my Tivo, if it dies, I wouldn't replace it. I'd just use me "free" Xfinity DVR and save the monthly $12.95 fee...
 

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That is an impressive amount info and specific details. I have two thoughts…and I have Dpectrum Cable Card: 1) What to do when TiVo Unit dies…it is 3 year old spinningHD, so anticipating sooner than later. 2) With Roku, Fitestick plugged into the TV also, along with Apple TV, AmazonPrime, Netflix, Paramount+…should I even continue with TV at this point. We still record a few broadcast shows…and I like watching TiVorecorded shows WAY more than a streaming show. But everything g is adding up, that is for sure.
Thanks. Charter Spectrum is anticipating changes to their network in some areas that may mean that CableCARD devices like TiVo DVRs will no longer work with their cable TV service. (There's some uncertainty around this but Charter did send out an email this summer to at least some of their customers about the matter. See here for the full story.)

At any rate, the question is: what should you do when either your old TiVo stops working or your Spectrum cable TV service stop working with your TiVo? I can't really answer for you, only give you my thoughts/suggestions. I would not spend any more money on TiVo DVRs. You'd need to decide if you want to keep some form of cable TV or if you would be OK just using streaming apps plus maybe an over-the-air (OTA) antenna to get your local stations. You can buy an OTA DVR such as Tablo that lets you access live and recorded OTA TV via their app on streaming devices like Roku and Fire TV. But before investing in an OTA DVR, be aware that you can watch CBS shows next day on-demand ad-free in Paramount+, and even get a live stream of your local CBS station, for $10/mo. You can watch NBC shows next day, and also watch NBC sports live, in Peacock ($5 with ads or $10 ad-free). You can watch ABC and Fox shows next day in Hulu ($8 with ads or $15 ad-free). And generally speaking, the picture quality is much better through those apps than what you'd see on cable or even with an OTA antenna.

If you decide that you do want to stick with some form of cable TV in order to get all your main locals plus channels like ESPN, CNN, Discovery, Hallmark, FX, Paramount Network, Fox Sports 1, USA, etc., then you could look into YouTube TV or DirecTV Stream, starting at $65 or $70 per month (DVR service included). They have apps for both Roku and Fire TV. Or you could keep cable TV from Spectrum but use it with a DVR box that you rent from them.
 

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What would it take for TiVo to make a cable card capable of IPTV?
There's not going to be an IPTV version of CableCARD that will work across all IPTV providers. However, some IPTV providers (mainly small ones) are opting to partner with TiVo and use them to provide the software that runs their IPTV boxes/DVRs that they give to their customers. But that's not something the customer can control, it's a decision that the operator has to make to use TiVo to power their own boxes.
 

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Actually there’s a very good reason they can’t “catch” the IPTV streams. There’s no universal standard so any retail device wouldn’t work with any provider.
There was at one time a (reasonably robust) rumor that TiVo did indeed talk to at least a few operators about licensing the operators IPTV solution for consumer STBs (it is generally accepted that TiVo had the engineering talent to be able to build a solution, but they would need a license to use it, and that work would be (as you say) somewhat different for every operator). However, ultimately, no agreement was reached (it is all about money, of course), and it is not going to happen now (that ship sailed a long time ago).

---

As a common approach to such IP licensing is a cross licensing deal (we will provide you access to some of our IP for free, and you give us access to some of your IP for free), it is likely TiVo was unwilling to accept that approach to give up an existing IP revenue stream from such operators for the possibility of future consumer cable STB revenue (by that point I think TiVo had already mostly pivoted to being an operator solution first, and consumer STBs were of a much lower consideration). Another common approach is a per shipped device fee, but that would have required TiVo to pay such a license (likely not cheap) for every unit in one way or another (could have been NRC or MRC, but for a NRC would be a large hit to cover existing units) and it is likely each operator would simultaneously want fees, as TiVo was not going to share their customer information with operators (and as one-way UDCP devices, there is no way to know what devices are in use where).
 

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I am not sure if this is addressed anywhere in the forums, but Spectrum so far has not announced an end date for CableCards. They only have 17,000 customers using CableCards but I was talking to the Cable Card Department and they told me it is being talked about. It may not be for years but it is going to happen. I was told that we will receive a letter about it long in advance of the change. Just an FYI for anyone wondering about this who are Spectrum Customers. I just got me a new EDGE for $149.99 under the Continual Care program and would at least like to let it get dusty before retiring it. :eek:
This has been discussed in the forums plenty. Do a search.
 

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I am not sure if this is addressed anywhere in the forums, but Spectrum so far has not announced an end date for CableCards. They only have 17,000 customers using CableCards but I was talking to the Cable Card Department and they told me it is being talked about. It may not be for years but it is going to happen. I was told that we will receive a letter about it long in advance of the change. Just an FYI for anyone wondering about this who are Spectrum Customers. I just got me a new EDGE for $149.99 under the Continual Care program and would at least like to let it get dusty before retiring it. :eek:
LOL Good ole’ Spectrum. I cut that cable 3 yrs ago after ten frustrating years of non-support for my TiVos with CableCard and Tuning Adapter. I can only imagine the response if I had called their support and asked to speak to their “Cable Card Department”. And if there were any Spectrum personnel “talking about” ending CC it certainly wasn’t any of the support personnel in my region since I never met one who even knew what a CC or Tuning Adapter was. Yes I have a grudge!
 

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There's not going to be an IPTV version of CableCARD that will work across all IPTV providers. However, some IPTV providers (mainly small ones) are opting to partner with TiVo and use them to provide the software that runs their IPTV boxes/DVRs that they give to their customers. But that's not something the customer can control, it's a decision that the operator has to make to use TiVo to power their own boxes.
Search for TV Everywhere. Or TV Everywhere DVR. It's not ubiquitous. But, it's along the lines of CableCard. I just decommissioned my bolt with cable card / spectrum and switched to Philo. I did have to purchase another network tuner. for local channels. I wish Tivo OTA DVR had 4 channels and I could seamlessly access it on my Tivo Stream.
 

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Search for TV Everywhere. Or TV Everywhere DVR. It's not ubiquitous. But, it's along the lines of CableCard. I just decommissioned my bolt with cable card / spectrum and switched to Philo. I did have to purchase another network tuner. for local channels. I wish Tivo OTA DVR had 4 channels and I could seamlessly access it on my Tivo Stream.
Yes, the DVR service available in the Channels app ($8/mo or $80/yr) can record the TV Everywhere streams available from cable and some local broadcast channels using your cable TV provider log-in. (It can also be used as an OTA DVR system when paired with an HDHomeRun OTA tuner.)

Of all the various next-gen DVR systems, Channels is probably the slickest and most TiVo-like. There's an entire thread on this forum about using it where you can read the reactions and advice of former TiVo users who have switched to Channels. See here:


But Channels DVR is not for everyone as it involves installing and running the Channels server software on an always-on PC, Mac or NAS -- that's where your DVR recordings are stored -- and then watching through the Channels app on your Apple TV, Android/Google TV or Fire TV device. So maybe a bit more complicated than setting up and using a TiVo box.
 

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I think it's more about the MSOs not wanting third parties to do their DVR. I mean, look what happened after the CableCARD mandate died - the majors basically dropped support for it as fast as they could (there are threads on which cable providers still support it, which ones basically grandfather it in, and which ones aren't going to even bother).
The most that has happened with cable cards are unsubstantiated reports in some areas (not widespread) that one or two providers don’t issue new cards

Besides those hit-and-miss reports not a single major cable company has made any official change in CC support policy.

Saying that major companies dropped support “as fast as they could” is not even close to what actually is happening.
 

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The most that has happened with cable cards are unsubstantiated reports in some areas (not widespread) that one or two providers don’t issue new cards

Besides those hit-and-miss reports not a single major cable company has made any official change in CC support policy.

Saying that major companies dropped support “as fast as they could” is not even close to what actually is happening.
Meaning they are stuck in the past when it comes to resolution and channel offerings as well as symmetric bandwidth.
 

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I too have used TiVo for 20 years. For me, the problem with switching is streaming is still terrible for sports. Both visually and financially. I have great Internet speeds, but the streams still look terrible for fast action (and of course they are also minutes behind real time).
Financially, the cost of all the streaming services to see regular TV, MLB, and NHL is too much compared to the plans I've locked in with FIOS (NFL is thankfully still mostly on local channels).

Hopefully things improve before TiVO/Cable is gone.
I'm with you, JimmyS. Until I tried FuboTV on an Apple TV 4K -- the Multiview experience is incredible. I'm able to watch up to 4 live streams but usually only manage toggling between three games.
 

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Hopefully you have many more years of life left in you than TiVo CableCARD DVRs do. All of the major cable operators, including Comcast, have it on their long-term roadmap to eventually change the technology they use to transmit cable TV channels from traditional QAM to streaming IPTV, rendering their systems incompatible with CableCARD devices like TiVo DVRs. Comcast has been very slowly transitioning from QAM to IPTV for nearly a decade now, running both systems side by side, with a few of their newest channels only available on IPTV. Earlier generation X1 boxes were compatible with both QAM and IPTV but the latest ones they've been giving out (as well as their Xfinity Stream app for devices like Roku and Fire TV) only do IPTV. TiVos only do QAM. They cannot access IPTV channels.

At some point -- no one knows when -- Comcast will completely shut down QAM and only offer cable TV service over IPTV. Could be in a year, might be five years from now. When they upgrade the network in an area from the current DOCSIS 3.1 broadband standard to DOCSIS 4.0 is a logical point when that could happen, although Comcast hasn't said so. They've announced that at least some areas will get upgraded to DOCSIS 4.0, allowing multi-gig internet speeds in both directions, in 2023. Will be interesting to see if QAM TV gets shut down in those markets at that time.

Meanwhile, TiVo knows that its DVR business is in irreversible decline, so it has no reason to invest money in evolving/improving it any further at this point. The thing they're chasing now is trying to become a smart TV software provider, using their "TiVo OS" as the built-in software and streaming app platform for 2nd and 3rd-tier TV brands around the world.

Bottom line: if you like your TiVo DVRs and Comcast cable TV service as they currently exist, there's no reason to dump them. But you shouldn't expect them to change or get better. And you should expect that, at some point this decade, they'll cease working. But that day could still be a long way off.
Well-crafted info, NashGuy. You sound like a cable guy (it takes one to know one... ;)). Charter and Comcast cover about 85-88% of US homes passed. Their joint venture recently announced Xumo as the brand name for a feature-rich streaming video ecosystem. "Xumo will go-to-market with its first branded devices in late 2023, distributed by Comcast, Charter, and Walmart, with additional distributors to be announced in the future." Read the full story here.
 

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Well-crafted info, NashGuy. You sound like a cable guy (it takes one to know one... ;)). Charter and Comcast cover about 85-88% of US homes passed. Their joint venture recently announced Xumo as the brand name for a feature-rich streaming video ecosystem. "Xumo will go-to-market with its first branded devices in late 2023, distributed by Comcast, Charter, and Walmart, with additional distributors to be announced in the future." Read the full story here.
I've been happy with my trial of DirecTV Stream and ability to use Channels DVR with it. I'll take a look at Xumo in case TiVo fails. I guess like many other TiVo fans, I keep holding out for one last miracle that will save the interface, DVR, and the TiVo experience.
 

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Yesterday I ventured to Microcenter and purchased a 4 tuner Tablo (non HDMI) with the thought it would replace my OTA Tivo Bolt Vox and minis. The experiment lasted about 4 hours. My Tivo has been dropping some channels and I expected the Tablo tuner would be better receiving the weaker OTA stations. Wrong!

The Tablo, using the same outdoor antenna as the Tivo received even less channels and couldn't tune some the Tivo could.

The buffering on the Tablo to load channels and guide was unbearable. I tried two different hard drives, one a newer solid state. I gave it overnight to download guide data and hopefully do better. Every time you scroll down the guide you have to wait for it to populate. Every channel change results in a spinning blue circle before it loads.

Watching it on a iPad was impossible with all the buffering. I have gig internet and a strong wifi signal through out the house.

As many issues as Tivo has, my Tivo Bolt and minis, IMO, it still blow the Tablo out of the water as a OTA DVR.

Returning the Tablo to Microcenter tomorrow.
 

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I hacked our first Series1 by adding a second HDD. I've been hacking them ever since and currently have a 4TB Premiere XL and a 3TB bolt both with LT subs. I had to install a new 3TB drive in the Bolt a couple of months ago when the original died. (I was glad I squirreled one away before they stopped making them.) Lost all of the recordings, but had a lot backed up on the Premiere and it wasn't the end of the world.

So having been there since the beginning and having spent way too many late-night hours getting them to do things I never thought I could (or TiVo probably ever thought about), I too will be sad when the day comes that either of my last boxes dies... because I won't "invest" in a new one.

There's nothing like a TiVo when it comes to convenience. Nothing. I've tried to cut the cord with multiple different devices and sources, but always come back to TiVo. We're currently with Comcast/Xfinity and we know that the end of cable card support is coming. Explored OTA antenna, etc. and if/when the day comes I might drop a few dollars on a OTA TiVo for fun, but it wouldn't be the center of our TV watching universe like it is now.

I've lost track of the subs we have for streaming services. The wife and I were talking about it when we were using the Apple TV 4K the other night. (Tried other streamers, but keep coming back to the ATV.) Before Steve Jobs passed he commented about TV, saying "I cracked it". Rather than the physical TV some thought he meant, it appears that he was referring to a voice-controlled environment. A world where all we needed to do was ask for what we wanted. It's pretty much come true. I can tell Siri, show me "[insert almost anything available - TV shows, Music, Podcasts, etc. - here] and it's suddenly listed in front of me, ready to play. It's not limited to what Apple offers either. It "knows" all of the streaming services we have currently and shows everything that's available, no matter what the source. The future, Steve's future anyway, is basically here.

Whatever is next, it just won't be as convenient as TiVo. I will miss that. Hopefully we can enjoy it for a little while longer.
 
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On the cable card part, I had a Cox rep inside for an issue recently, he couldn't say enough that TiVo was dead, he couldn't touch the cable card, they had no new cards, TiVo is dying give it up. That's the kind of cable feedback you get about TiVo these days...

DrWeb
Ha! When the Comcast/Xfinity installer set us up in our current house a few months ago he just had to comment about how no one has TiVos anymore, that their DVRs were far superior. I asked him if their DVR had 7TB of recording space. "Um, er, no". Do they have 10 tuners that can record 10 different programs simultaneously while playing back two other recordings? "Um, well, no". So the TiVos I have are actually superior then? "Well, um... okay, gotta go." :rolleyes: ;)
 
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· Cranky old novice
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The most that has happened with cable cards are unsubstantiated reports in some areas (not widespread) that one or two providers don’t issue new cards

Besides those hit-and-miss reports not a single major cable company has made any official change in CC support policy.

Saying that major companies dropped support “as fast as they could” is not even close to what actually is happening.
LOL, you are probably correct but I can’t help laughing since my Spectrum (formerly TWC) region could never “drop” support for TiVo, CC or TA, since they never provided it to begin with!
 

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The second that my cable company (Mediacom) drops cable card support I will drop them. I will also probably drop them the second my Tivo dies.

I feel that my setup of Cable card, roamio and mini's is the far superior solution to all the streaming options on the roku. It's faster, easier to navigate, and doesn't spoil game scores for me like ESPN+ does.
But I'm obviously in the minority on that front.
 

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The second that my cable company (Mediacom) drops cable card support I will drop them. I will also probably drop them the second my Tivo dies.

I feel that my setup of Cable card, roamio and mini's is the far superior solution to all the streaming options on the roku. It's faster, easier to navigate, and doesn't spoil game scores for me like ESPN+ does.
But I'm obviously in the minority on that front.
Mediacom has repeatedly claimed (via online forums, Reddit, etc.) that they have no intentions of dropping CC. HOWEVER, I have noticed that the "new" channels (in the 11xx range) that show up on my TiVo channel list are IPTV ones. Consumer TiVos can't do anything with them (other than add these un-tuneable channels to the list), but the Mediacom eBox can and does display them.

So Mediacom isn't actively killing CC, but it is fairly clear what direction they want to go.
 

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LOL Good ole’ Spectrum. I cut that cable 3 yrs ago after ten frustrating years of non-support for my TiVos with CableCard and Tuning Adapter. I can only imagine the response if I had called their support and asked to speak to their “Cable Card Department”. And if there were any Spectrum personnel “talking about” ending CC it certainly wasn’t any of the support personnel in my region since I never met one who even knew what a CC or Tuning Adapter was. Yes I have a grudge!
They do have a cable card tech group......those guys actually know what they are doing and helped me out numerous times when the local tech did not have a clue.
 
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