Welcome-Starting Up Loop

6202 Views 18 Replies 6 Participants Last post by unitron, Jul 22, 2011

Rawson819

Discussion Starter · Jul 21, 2011

Today, I moved my Premiere from one room to another and upon connecting the power cord, all lights illuminated, all but the green darkened, Welcome Powering Up appeared on screen, all lights illuminated, and then screen went blank and the lights darkened. This sequence repeats indefinitely.

I bought the unit from DVRUpgrade with a 1.5GB drive in May of 2010, so it's definitely out of warranty. Do these symptoms most likely indicate the need for a new drive or is there something else I might try first. I've read about the Kickstart codes, but my lights don't seem to respond as necessary for those...of course my desperation didn't stop me from trying anyway.

I've upgraded older series units with InstantCake, but see that's not an option on the Premieres and I don't care to pay $269 to DVRUpgrade or WeaKnees for a drive replacement. So, unless there's any other suggestions, I'm currently leaning towards a drive from dvr_dude on eBay, who I've read positive feedback on in other threads.

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

crxssi

· #2 · Jul 21, 2011

Rawson819 said:
Today, I moved my Premiere from one room to another and upon connecting the power cord, all lights illuminated, all but the green darkened, Welcome Powering Up appeared on screen, all lights illuminated, and then screen went blank and the lights darkened. This sequence repeats indefinitely.

Slide remote or TA? Unplug them and try booting...

Rawson819

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 21, 2011

crxssi said:
Slide remote or TA? Unplug them and try booting...

Neither. I did try starting with network cable and cable card unplugged but it had no effect.

L David Matheny

· #4 · Jul 21, 2011

Rawson819 said:
Neither. I did try starting with network cable and cable card unplugged but it had effect.

I assume you mean "it had no effect".

Have you read up on the IntelliPark reboot issue addressed by WDidle3? I don't know whether your symptoms quite fit that scenario or whether it is likely to apply to a unit bought from DVRUpgrade, but it's a thought. It is hard to believe you wouldn't have run into the problem sooner.

unitron

· #5 · Jul 21, 2011

L David Matheny said:
I assume you mean "it had no effect".

Have you read up on the IntelliPark reboot issue addressed by WDidle3? I don't know whether your symptoms quite fit that scenario or whether it is likely to apply to a unit bought from DVRUpgrade, but it's a thought. It is hard to believe you wouldn't have run into the problem sooner.

Intellipark, as I understand it, affects soft reboots, where the drive is tricked into thinking that it can go to sleep for a while and the TiVo doesn't have anything in its programming to deal with the situation of having to wait for the drive to wake up.

The OP's OP indicates that the TiVo was unplugged from the AC wall socket power, moved to a different room, and reconnected to the AC, a hard boot.

Although you may be right anyway, in a way.

Perhaps the OP could open up the TiVo, connect a different power supply to the drive so that it's already spinning, and then plug in the TiVo to see if the drive has slowed down in its old age, or if the power supply has weakened just enough to cause failure to launch.

AppleWhat

· #6 · Jul 21, 2011

Rawson819 said:
Today, I moved my Premiere from one room to another and upon connecting the power cord, all lights illuminated, all but the green darkened, Welcome Powering Up appeared on screen, all lights illuminated, and then screen went blank and the lights darkened. This sequence repeats indefinitely.

I've had this happen once or twice (I have a stock Tivo though), but it was usually caused by the system freezing up while I was watching a recording. It would endlessly reboot.

I had to unplug it, wait a minute, and then try it again...mine started back normally after that...I know that's not the same situation as yours, but I hope you figure it out!

Rawson819

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 21, 2011

Correct, I had meant "no" effect (I edited the post)

In reading up on the Intellipark issue, I came across a post in a Weaknees Forum thread where a user described a reboot loop issue with a Series 3. Although in his case, he had different symptoms that preceded his hard drive replacement.

I posted in that thread and someone from Weaknees reaffirmed the bad hard drive diagnosis.

unitron said:
Perhaps the OP could open up the TiVo, connect a different power supply to the drive so that it's already spinning, and then plug in the TiVo to see if the drive has slowed down in its old age, or if the power supply has weakened just enough to cause failure to launch.

How exactly would I go about this, if I wanted to give it a shot? Would I connect to the TiVo to a power supply in a PC?

Rawson819

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 21, 2011

AppleWhat said:
I had to unplug it, wait a minute, and then try it again...mine started back normally after that...I know that's not the same situation as yours, but I hope you figure it out!

I had hoped after sitting all night, I'd wake up, plug it in, and all would be well again...but I knew that would not be the case. Thanks for the support!

unitron

· #9 · Jul 21, 2011

Rawson819 said:
Correct, I had meant "no" effect (I edited the post)

In reading up on the Intellipark issue, I came across a post in a Weaknees Forum thread where a user described a reboot loop issue with a Series 3. Although in his case, he had different symptoms that preceded his hard drive replacement.

I posted in that thread and someone from Weaknees reaffirmed the bad hard drive diagnosis.

If the symptoms preceded, as in happened before, a hard drive replacement, I don't see how that would lead someone to conclude that the replacement hard drive had gone bad, even someone in the business of selling replacement hard drives.

Rawson819 said:
How exactly would I go about this, if I wanted to give it a shot? Would I connect to the TiVo to a power supply in a PC?

I've only had occasion to do this with the older type (4 pin Molex) power connectors such as are found on IDE drives (and some early SATA drives), but the principle should be the same.

The problem may be that, unlike my situation where over the years I'd accumulated Y-adapters and extenders for 4 pin Molex situations, you might not be able to get the TiVo and the computer close enough for the SATA power lead from the computer's power supply to reach the drive.

Also, I've never been inside a Premiere.

I don't know if it has the standard SATA data cable and separate SATA power cable, or some all in one deal.

If the cables are separate, and standard, maybe you can take the drive out, use a longer data cable, and get it close enough to the computer that way.

You can take an ATX power supply without a computer wrapped around it and get away with running it for short periods with just a hard drive attached as a load.

After connecting to the power input part of a hard drive, you take the 20 or 24 pin plug that's supposed to go to the motherboard and short the green insulated power-on wire to the black insulated ground wire on either side of it, but first you do your research and make sure that you've got the correct wire in case the manufacturer didn't follow the color code completely, and you make sure you don't have one of those Dell "almost-ATX" supplies from a few years ago when they used the same plug but changed which voltage went where on the supplies and the motherboards in certain models (for no good reason, as far as anyone can tell).

The idea here is to have the drive already up to speed when the TiVo boots, and to relieve the TiVo's power supply of the extra burden of powering the drive.

That way, if it works, you know the drive is sort-of okay and start checking to see if your power supply is partially faulty, or if perhaps the drive no longer can get up to speed as soon as the TiVo expects it to be.

I recommend plugging the Tivo's power cord into an outlet strip with a switch so that you don't have to mess with the TiVo end of the power cord with it and the computer open and ready for stuff to accidently short together.

Before you do that, see if you can run Kickstart codes on the Premiere.

Unplugging a TiVo, moving it, and having it not work on being plugged back in is such a common occurence that co-incidental mechanical failure of the drive is too much of a co-incidence to always be the answer.

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L David Matheny

· #10 · Jul 21, 2011

unitron said:
The idea here is to have the drive already up to speed when the TiVo boots, and to relieve the TiVo's power supply of the extra burden of powering the drive.

That way, if it works, you know the drive is sort-of okay and start checking to see if your power supply is partially faulty, or if perhaps the drive no longer can get up to speed as soon as the TiVo expects it to be.

A couple more quick thoughts: What model hard drive is it, and could it draw more power than the models recommended here? And remember, don't connect a TiVo drive to a Gigabyte motherboard, for reasons you can find by searching here.

unitron

· #11 · Jul 21, 2011

L David Matheny said:
A couple more quick thoughts: What model hard drive is it, and could it draw more power than the models recommended here? And remember, don't connect a TiVo drive to a Gigabyte motherboard, for reasons you can find by searching here.

Of course the GigaByte motherboard HPA problem is caused by connecting the drive's data prongs to the board, and has nothing to do with the power connection.

DVRupgrade, from whom the OP got at least the drive, if not the entire TiVo, would most likely have made sure not to exceed the limitations of the (properly working) TiVo power supply, although your point is valid for do-it-themselfers to consider when picking parts.

Rawson819

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 21, 2011

unitron said:
If the symptoms preceded, as in happened before, a hard drive replacement, I don't see how that would lead someone to conclude that the replacement hard drive had gone bad, even someone in the business of selling replacement hard drives.

I probably didn't write that too well. The Weaknees poster had additional initial symptoms which preceded the Welcome reboot issue that I did not have is maybe what I should have wrote. (Weaknees Thread)

I have not yet opened the Premiere yet. This issue could not have come at a worse time. The whole thing started from having to clear our first level for new floors. Once that is completed, I can devote some time to tinkering.

Two other factors I haven't mentioned which are likely related to my issue are that I started seeing the TiVo startup animation quite often when going into TiVo Central over the last couple of months, which made me think the unit was rebooting. Secondly, the unit was in a poorly ventilated cabinet and very probably ran hotter than ideal.

L David Matheny

· #13 · Jul 21, 2011

Rawson819 said:
I have not yet opened the Premiere yet. This issue could not have come at a worse time. The whole thing started from having to clear our first level for new floors. Once that is completed, I can devote some time to tinkering.

Watch your timeline. You probably have a week or two or maybe a month to return the Premiere to wherever you bought it. Once you hook it up and it connects to TiVo's servers, you will have a one-week grace period before you have to sign up for a service plan. Then you have a one-month buyer's remorse period in which you can cancel the service plan without obligation.

unitron

· #14 · Jul 21, 2011

L David Matheny said:
Watch your timeline. You probably have a week or two or maybe a month to return the Premiere to wherever you bought it. Once you hook it up and it connects to TiVo's servers, you will have a one-week grace period before you have to sign up for a service plan. Then you have a one-month buyer's remorse period in which you can cancel the service plan without obligation.

By not yet opened the Premiere, I believe what was meant was not that the cardboard box had not been opened, but that the cover of the machine had not been removed.

If you will refer to the post that started this thread, you will see that the unit was purchased over a year ago and has been in use.

L David Matheny

· #15 · Jul 22, 2011

unitron said:
By not yet opened the Premiere, I believe what was meant was not that the cardboard box had not been opened, but that the cover of the machine had not been removed.

If you will refer to the post that started this thread, you will see that the unit was purchased over a year ago and has been in use.

Oops! Never mind.

DPF

· #16 · Jul 22, 2011

I did not read all posts in this thread so if I'm doubling up, I apologize.

The stuck at "Powering up" screen in older Tivo's was often caused by the Power supply going bad. The capacitor on either the 5V or 12V rail would die, and undervolt the HDD, not allowing it to spin up.

I just went thru this on my old 140XX S2. Opend it up, inspected the PS, and could clearly see the top of one of the 16V capacitors (2200uF if I remember right) bulging a bit at the top, a tell-tale sign. It doesn't need to be leaking. Just evidence of swelling from over-heating can be evidence of it being bad. Replaced that capacitor after ordering a match from Digi-Key or somewhere, she was back to new again.

If you're one willing to open up the Premiere (I have not opened mine yet, so I can't speak to the PS in there), it's likely worth taking a look. Of course, let it sit for a while and the caps discharge before handling anything

. There's threads here and "other sites" with pictures of what these bad caps look like. You can search for "Power Supply Capacitor" or variants and likely find some info.

Again, not sure if this applies to premieres as well, but don't really see why it wouldn't.

Here's a thread on the subject in a 140060, which were famous for this. There's a link within to a Youtube clip. THat's worth looking at for the reference for what a bad cap looks like:

Right here

-DPF

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unitron

· #17 · Jul 22, 2011

DPF said:
I did not read all posts in this thread so if I'm doubling up, I apologize.

The stuck at "Powering up" screen in older Tivo's was often caused by the Power supply going bad. The capacitor on the 12V rail would die, and undervolt the HDD, not allowing it to spin up.

I just went thru this on my old 140XX S2. Opend it up, inspected the PS, and could clearly see the top of one of the 16V capacitors (2200uF if I remember right) bulging a bit at the top, a tell-tale sign. It doesn't need to be leaking. Just evidence of swelling from over-heating can be evidence of it being bad. Replaced that capacitor after ordering a match from Digi-Key or soemwhere, replaced the bad cap, she was back to new again.

If you're one willing to open up the Premiere (I have not opened mine yet, so I can't speak to the PS in there), it's likely worth taking a look. Of course, let it sit for a while and the caps discharge before handling anything . There's threads here and "other sites" with pictures of what these bad caps look like. You can search for "Power Supply Capacitor" or variants and likely find some info.

Again, not sure if this applies to premieres as well, but don't really see why it wouldn't.

Here's a thread on the subject in a 140060, which were famous for this. There's a link within to a Youtube clip. THat's worth looking at for the reference for what a bad cap looks like:

Right here

-DPF

I just resurrected a lifetimed 240 with the same problem and it was a 16V 2200 uF cap.

Had to take needle-nose pliers and bust off the white gunk gluing it to the board before unsoldering.

I had temporarily swapped in a 540 power supply (thanks, classicsat) to make sure everything else was okay.

The 540 supply is apparently a little less muscular (second hard drive may overtax it) and is a different design with different component values, so I don't know what's most likely to go bad on it.

DPF

· #18 · Jul 22, 2011

Right, there's three there that any one of them can be suspect. Which one goes bad can be seen by looking for the telltale bulging as shown in the video.

On those old PS's there was a 10V 2200uF (5V rail), a 16V 2200uF (12 V rail) and then a third which I can't remember at all.

-DPF

unitron

· #19 · Jul 22, 2011

DPF said:
Right, there's three there that any one of them can be suspect. Which one goes bad can be seen by looking for the telltale bulging as shown in the video.

On those old PS's there was a 10V 2200uF (5V rail), a 16V 2200uF (12 V rail) and then a third which I can't remember at all.

-DPF

What I was saying was that you can swap a 240 supply and a 540 supply (at least for test purposes), but you can't swap parts from one to the other.

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