Watchmen - S01E01 "It's Summer and We're Running Out Of Ice" 10/20/2019 spoilers

43353 Views 60 Replies 20 Participants Last post by DevdogAZ, Nov 11, 2019

DevdogAZ

Discussion Starter · Oct 22, 2019

Figured we needed a thread for this where we can discuss the actual episode without spoiler tags. Also, because this show treats the original graphic novel as canon, I think we need to be able to discuss that here without spoiler tags. So that's the rule for this thread. All discussion of Watchmen IP is fair game.

I never read the original graphic novel. I saw the 2009 Zach Snyder movie and was not impressed. But I really liked this episode and I really want to see where it's going.

I took the advice of TV critic Tim Goodman and read the Wikipedia plot summary of the graphic novel so I had at least a little idea of some of the backstory. I'm not sure what the 1921 Tulsa Riot scene had to do with the modern-day stuff, but interested in finding out.

I'm also super curious about the squid storm. I know the ending of the graphic novel has to do with Adrian Veidt somehow creating a giant squid that attacked NYC in an effort to get the world's powers to stop the cold war and work together against this alleged alien threat. But my understanding is what he did was a giant hoax (even though it killed a lot of people). So why is it raining squid in Tulsa, OK 34 years later?

When the kid in the class was asking Regina King's character about redfordations, I thought that was just to show that he was uneducated and didn't know how to pronounce reparations. But listening to a couple podcasts, I realize that's the name given to the reparations enacted by President Robert Redford. I knew he was POTUS in this universe, but that adds a new twist.

So the world thinks Adrian Veidt is dead, but we see that he's alive. I wonder how that's going to play out.

Bummer that Don Johnson's character had to die in the first episode. But it was not a surprise at all. If they wanted it to be shocking, they shouldn't have telegraphed it so clearly.

Anyway, discuss...

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TAsunder

· #2 · Oct 22, 2019

There's a good chance that the Tulsa Riots are the origin story for Lou Gossett Jr's character turning out to be Hooded Justice (who disappeared in the comic when the government enacted anti-mask laws). It certainly is implied from the silent movie, him teasing about lifting 200 lbs, and how closely the silent film matched the final scene. If not Hooded Justice then at least some sort of hood-shrouded, costumed person based on Bass Reeves. It also certainly sets the tone for the racial violence we see later.

His character's name is listed as Will Reeves on IMDB, further lending credence to this idea, since he might have taken the Reeves name on after his escape.

My assumption is that the squid hoax is being kept alive through someone in the know, possibly Veidt, possibly through some government conspiracy.

I'm curious about how Judd had an Owlship. That should prove interesting.

The Redford thing was teased/spoiled a lot in the speculation for the show. It was revealed he would be the president but it is unclear if the actor will actually be in the show at all.

Reactions: 1

Tony_T

· #3 · Oct 22, 2019

IIRC, Redford announced his retirement from acting (not that that would prevent him coming out of retirement)

hairyblue

· #4 · Oct 22, 2019

I really like it. I hate the D. Johnson is already dead, though. Maybe he'll be back in some flashbacks.

I wonder if Veidt is going to try to make another Dr. Manhattan with his play. And those 2 people taking care of Veidt seem off to me. What's with the horseshoe that guy tried to hand Veidt?

Jeeters

· #5 · Oct 22, 2019

DevdogAZ said:
I'm also super curious about the squid storm. I know the ending of the graphic novel has to do with Adrian Veidt somehow creating a giant squid that attacked NYC in an effort to get the world's powers to stop the cold war and work together against this alleged alien threat. But my understanding is what he did was a giant hoax (even though it killed a lot of people). So why is it raining squid in Tulsa, OK 34 years later?

In the episode, somebody (was it on the radio? i forget) said something about "random transdimensional attacks" (I might be paraphrasing.) I'm guessing the raining squids was that.

logic88

· #6 · Oct 23, 2019

Apparently HBO has setup a website with the backstory on what happened during the 34-year gap between the end of the comic and the beginning of the series.

Watchmen 'files' reveal what really happened after the comic

Reactions: 2

morac

· #7 · Oct 23, 2019

DevdogAZ said:
So the world thinks Adrian Veidt is dead, but we see that he's alive. I wonder how that's going to play out.

This is technically a spoiler since the person in the episode is never named, not even in the credits. The only way to know who he is is to read blog posts or other outside the show info.

hairyblue

· #8 · Oct 23, 2019

morac said:
This is technically a spoiler since the person in the episode is never named, not even in the credits. The only way to know who he is is to read blog posts or other outside the show info.

I thought that was Veidt, unless it's a clone or something. I didn't look at the credits but who else could it have been? And who are the odd maid and butler who keep calling him "master"?

dianebrat

· #9 · Oct 23, 2019

hairyblue said:
I thought that was Veidt, unless it's a clone or something. I didn't look at the credits but who else could it have been? And who are the odd maid and butler who keep calling him "master"?

It's available info outside the show, it's Veidt and his companions are AI/androids/whatever they call them in this universe, but why we saw the headline of him being declared dead will need to be addressed in the show at some point

Reactions: 1

cheesesteak

· #10 · Oct 23, 2019

DevdogAZ said:
I took the advice of TV critic Tim Goodman and read the Wikipedia plot summary of the graphic novel so I had at least a little idea of some of the backstory.

Thanks for this suggestion.. I need all the help I can get. I know I read the graphic novel years ago but don't remember much.

3D

· #11 · Oct 23, 2019

DevdogAZ said:
I'm not sure what the 1921 Tulsa Riot scene had to do with the modern-day stuff, but interested in finding out. Anyway, discuss...

Wasn't the Lou Gosset Jr. character the little boy from the beginning grown up? It was a blink and you missed it moment (and I probably should have rewound to double check) but I'm pretty sure he that while sitting under the tree I saw him clutching the note the boy had at the beginning (something to the effect of "take care of this boy").

Reactions: 1

mattyro7878

· #12 · Oct 23, 2019

And how did Rorschach become a symbol for racism? All I know is from the movie and I didn't see that coming.

Rob Helmerichs

· #13 · Oct 23, 2019

mattyro7878 said:
And how did Rorschach become a symbol for racism? All I know is from the movie and I didn't see that coming.

In the comic, he was a Reagan- and Thatcher-era hard-line conservative law-and-order type. He showed everything that was wrong with that philosophy. (More specifically, he showed everything that was wrong with Ayn Rand-style libertarianism; he was based on a character created by Rand fanboy Steve Ditko to celebrate those values.)

Of course, that zoomed Snyder pretty good. Snyder admired Rorschach.

Reactions: 1

TAsunder

· #14 · Oct 23, 2019

Well, also he was all about black and white morals and nothing in-between. And using violence to enforce this. Plus his mask was literally white and black liquid that never mixed. It’s actually pretty brilliant and reasonable, IMO.

Reactions: 1

mattyro7878

· #15 · Oct 23, 2019

I like that observation that the parts of the mask never mixed. Pretty neat. Not the concept. The image.

Amnesia

· #16 · Oct 23, 2019

Rob Helmerichs said:
In the comic, he was a Reagan- and Thatcher-era hard-line conservative law-and-order type. He showed everything that was wrong with that philosophy.

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but he didn't show that anything was wrong with that philosophy. He was a hero and opposed Veidt's deception---he felt that people deserved the truth.

I certainly don't recall anything about Rorschach that would imply that he endorsed racism...

Reactions: 1

TAsunder

· #17 · Oct 23, 2019

Amnesia said:
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but he didn't show that anything was wrong with that philosophy. He was a hero and opposed Veidt's deception---he felt that people deserved the truth.

I certainly don't recall anything about Rorschach that would imply that he endorsed racism...

Rorschach was not the hero of the story. No one was, really.

Rorschach read publications littered with racism in the comics. His journal and words didn't explicitly include racism -- just homophobic comments -- but the material he read otherwise aligned with his worldview so it is a reasonable inference.

Rob Helmerichs

· #18 · Oct 23, 2019

Amnesia said:
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but he didn't show that anything was wrong with that philosophy. He was a hero and opposed Veidt's deception---he felt that people deserved the truth.

I certainly don't recall anything about Rorschach that would imply that he endorsed racism...

He was also a brutal thug whose answer to anybody having different ideas was to beat the living $&#^ out of them...

It's not that he endorsed racism per se. It's that his kind of black and white, uncompromising, destroy-those-who-aren't-us philosophy is perfectly compatible with white supremacy.

Honestly, if you came out of Watchmen (the comic) thinking Rorschach was one of the good guys, I worry about you.

I think Moore was being very cleverly subversive, presenting a bad guy who took superhero ideology to its logical extreme, in a medium that is conditioned to see superheroes as the good guys.

realityboy

· #19 · Oct 23, 2019

Rob Helmerichs said:
Honestly, if you came out of Watchmen (the comic) thinking Rorschach was one of the good guys, I worry about you. I think Moore was being very cleverly subversive, presenting a bad guy who took superhero ideology to its logical extreme, in a medium that is conditioned to see superheroes as the good guys.

Someone's got to take over the DC movie universe now that Snyder's out.

realityboy

· #20 · Oct 23, 2019

As for the show, I thought it was fun world building (or at least revisiting). I want to see more. I wouldn’t mind a prequel series in this tone that replaced the Watchmen movie.

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