[xdroccax]

We have a S2ST (LT) and S2DT and are thinking about switching out the S2DT for a TivoHD. There's number posts that says the HD unit doesn't support satelite, but isn't really clear as to what isn't supported.

We use Dish for some Chinese channels and it's been working well with the S2DT and the IR blaster setup. If you go TivoHD, will we still be able to do this? Does the THD still have the capabilities of recording SD via the S-Video/IR Blaster method?

 

[kdmorse]

Sorry - but no, the S3/THD will not do what you're looking for.

Does the THD still have the capabilities of recording SD via the S-Video/IR Blaster method?

Specifically, because it has neither of those. As it's designed to be an entirely self-contained standalone box, it has neither a RCA/SVideo video in, nor an IR Blaster.

-Ken

 

[xdroccax]

That's crazy?!.. why did Tivo limit their HD units in such a way. Looks like if we want HD, our only option would be to cancel cable service for DishHD and their DVR's. Can't even keep the S2ST.

 

[bkdtv]

That's crazy?!.. why did Tivo limit their HD units in such a way. Looks like if we want HD, our only option would be to cancel cable service for DishHD and their DVR's. Can't even keep the S2ST.

Tivo wanted to support satellite service from Dish Network but Dish won't allow them. Dish refuses to give Tivo access to their encryption system. Without access to that encryption system, there is no way for Tivo to tune or record digital channels from Dish Network.

 

[Krellion]

To allow capture of HD via satellite, the S3/HD would need to have component or HDMI inputs on the back (like the S2 has for composite/s-video) and also include the necessary hardware to compress the HD, which would be very expensive (they already include an SD compression chip for analog streams, but those are fairly cheap nowadays). Plus, there wouldn't be a good way to do dual-tuner support without having that many more inputs.

Another option would be to include satellite tuners in the system (along will the current OTA analog/digital and cable analog/digital tuners), but this would also add to the price and, as bkdtv mentioned, Dish doesn't want to play nice. Another problem would be they'd be locked to Dish and could not be used with DirecTV (if things were worked out between TiVo and them again) since the two systems are not compatible (that I know of). Of course, they could add yet another set of tuners to support DirecTV if needed, yet again adding to the price.

So for now, we're stuck with cable and off-the-air recording.

 

[BobCamp1]

If you want HD, get a Dish DVR. Their DVRs are actually pretty good.

 

[xdroccax]

Tivo wanted to support satellite... ...there is no way for Tivo to tune or record digital channels from Dish Network.

We record Dish digital programming (SD) right now via the S-Video input and analog cable without a cablebox. Seems to me Tivo intentionally decide to cut this support instead of maintaining it. I.e. Remove already proven features.

Our original thought was switch to cablecards and THD for HD and use the Dish receiver w/S-Video. But now that you say there's no S-Video option for SD with THD or S3, the only real viable option would to be drop Tivo altogether and go with all Dish DVR's.

It doesn't make sense to use a THD w/cablecards AND Dish DVR on the same TV!

 

[GoHokies!]

If you want HD, get a Dish DVR. Their DVRs are actually pretty good.

They're pretty good because they use Tivo-patented technology.

Recommending a DVR that is under a court order to be shut down due to patent infringement isn't really the best advice, methinks. Even if the stay of execution for Dish DVRs is permanent, at some point they're going to have a cough up a nice chuck of change to Tivo.

More info:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=353290

 

[GoHokies!]

We record Dish digital programming (SD) right now via the S-Video input and analog cable without a cablebox. Seems to me Tivo intentionally decide to cut this support instead of maintaining it. I.e. Remove already proven features.

Re-read Krellion's post - the cost of doing this in HD is mega-expensive. There are some indications that there may be a THD-based unit in the future that has these inputs, maybe for SD via a cable or satellite box and HD via OTA antenna, but the market for that can't be all that big. Maybe Tivo is just reserving the space for inputs until such time as the HD input equipment gets cheap enough to use.

Any way you slice it, it isn't possible to do what you want in today's market conditions.

 

[HiDefGator]

Recommending a DVR that is under a court order to be shut down due to patent infringement isn't really the best advice, methinks. Even if the stay of execution for Dish DVRs is permanent, at some point they're going to have a cough up a nice chuck of change to Tivo.

The chunk of change that Dish will eventually have to hand over to Tivo to keep their DVR's going is refered to by Dish as "Pocket Change." It may be a huge sum to Tivo, but it isn't to Dish. While I've never used the Dish service or their DVR's, not getting one because of the lawsuit is just silly.

 

[yunlin12]

The chunk of change that Dish will eventually have to hand over to Tivo to keep their DVR's going is refered to by Dish as "Pocket Change." It may be a huge sum to Tivo, but it isn't to Dish. While I've never used the Dish service or their DVR's, not getting one because of the lawsuit is just silly.

Dish's income in 2006 is about $600 mil, down from 2005 (1.5 bn). They made $224 mil in Jun 07 Q. So maybe they are looking at $800 mil income this year. They owe Tivo $75 mil originally, with interest and new infringing boxes added in this past year, they are probably close to owing Tivo $100 mil in damages, that's about ~10% of their profit. Plus $1-2 per infringing box per month for ~4-6 million Dish DVR's out there going forward, which comes out to $50-$150 mil per year, so about also a ~10% drag on their profitability every year going forward. If their stock price is tied to the PE which is tied to their profit, as most companies are, ask Dish's stock holders if these kind of haircut in their stock price is "Pocket Change".

 

[GoHokies!]

The chunk of change that Dish will eventually have to hand over to Tivo to keep their DVR's going is refered to by Dish as "Pocket Change." It may be a huge sum to Tivo, but it isn't to Dish. While I've never used the Dish service or their DVR's, not getting one because of the lawsuit is just silly.

Until they're turned off, right?

Seriously, if you want to discuss it, let's take it to the thread that I linked. I didn't want to derail this thread, but an unqualified recommendation of Dish's DVR at this point isn't the best of advice. I'll leave the ethics of doing business with a company that feels that way about respecting other people's IP for that thread too. Suffice to say that even with 1,000 1080p stunning HD channels and a DVR that can read my mind, Dish won't see a dollar of my hard earned money.

 

[HiDefGator]

Until they're turned off, right?

Seriously, if you want to discuss it, let's take it to the thread that I linked. I didn't want to derail this thread, but an unqualified recommendation of Dish's DVR at this point isn't the best of advice. I'll leave the ethics of doing business with a company that feels that way about respecting other people's IP for that thread too. Suffice to say that even with 1,000 1080p stunning HD channels and a DVR that can read my mind, Dish won't see a dollar of my hard earned money.

Do you not do business with any other tech company than Tivo? Because everyone of them has been sued for patent infringement. Eventually Tivo will be sued too. And just like Dish and all the others, Tivo will insist the other companies patents are invalid and refuse to pay.

 

[HiDefGator]

Dish's income in 2006 is about $600 mil, down from 2005 (1.5 bn). They made $224 mil in Jun 07 Q. So maybe they are looking at $800 mil income this year. They owe Tivo $75 mil originally, with interest and new infringing boxes added in this past year, they are probably close to owing Tivo $100 mil in damages, that's about ~10% of their profit. Plus $1-2 per infringing box per month for ~4-6 million Dish DVR's out there going forward, which comes out to $50-$150 mil per year, so about also a ~10% drag on their profitability every year going forward. If their stock price is tied to the PE which is tied to their profit, as most companies are, ask Dish's stock holders if these kind of haircut in their stock price is "Pocket Change".

Your estimates of what they will eventually have to pay all seem a little on the high side. I noticed you also failed to mention how big a pile of cash Dish is currently sitting on. The patent license fee will likely be a one time fee not an on going monthly fee. Either way it will likely be another 4-6 months before we know if Tivo even wins the appeal.

 

[HiDefGator]

Suffice to say that even with 1,000 1080p stunning HD channels and a DVR that can read my mind, Dish won't see a dollar of my hard earned money.

What if Dish bought Tivo? Would you then refuse to deal with Tivo and Dish?

 

[GoHokies!]

Once more for possible penetration.

Until they're turned off, right?

Seriously, if you want to discuss it, let's take it to the thread that I linked. I didn't want to derail this thread, but an unqualified recommendation of Dish's DVR at this point isn't the best of advice. I'll leave the ethics of doing business with a company that feels that way about respecting other people's IP for that thread too. Suffice to say that even with 1,000 1080p stunning HD channels and a DVR that can read my mind, Dish won't see a dollar of my hard earned money.

 

[hastypete]

There is a workaround....
attach the RCA output from the sat box the the Ant in of the Tivo (put it into a 'T' if you are allready using the antenna.)
Then use channel 3 or 4 to record the sat box output.
You have to setup the sat box to auto tune to the right channel at the right time.
and set the Tivo with a manual record a the right time.
It works, I've done it.
the only problem is that the recording ends up with a show description of whatever the listing shows of the "donor" channel (3 or 4).
But it does work and better than no having no DVR.

 

[bizzy]

There is a workaround....
attach the RCA output from the sat box the the Ant in of the Tivo (put it into a 'T' if you are allready using the antenna.)
Then use channel 3 or 4 to record the sat box output.

It works, I've done it.

You mean the RF out from the sat box, not the "RCA" (composite video) out.