[skypros]

wizwor....... It looks like MCM Electronics is a GREAT Off Air supplier.... with very good prices!!!
Thank You for posting it.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produ...3&cadevice=c&gclid=CO7r9ujMtssCFRCOaQodXlUOcg

 

[NashGuy]

I'd expect flat and treeless terrain to more OTA users than hilly or mountainous regions.

Ugh, trees! I live in a neighborhood with lots of big mature trees. A slight breeze through their branches and I have multipath interference on my ABC channel. Big wind causes problems on other UHF channels. VHF channels are immune to all but gale force winds.

I have a Roamio OTA but if I want to watch every episode of an ABC series, like American Crime, I basically need Hulu. At least 1/3 of my ABC recordings are glitchy enough that I can't stand to watch them.

 

[tenthplanet]

Ugh, trees! I live in a neighborhood with lots of big mature trees. A slight breeze through their branches and I have multipath interference on my ABC channel. Big wind causes problems on other UHF channels. VHF channels are immune to all but gale force winds.

I have a Roamio OTA but if I want to watch every episode of an ABC series, like American Crime, I basically need Hulu. At least 1/3 of my ABC recordings are glitchy enough that I can't stand to watch them.

Wind and UHF I know what you're going through.

 

[wizwor]

Ugh, trees! I live in a neighborhood with lots of big mature trees. A slight breeze through their branches and I have multipath interference on my ABC channel. Big wind causes problems on other UHF channels. VHF channels are immune to all but gale force winds.

I have a Roamio OTA but if I want to watch every episode of an ABC series, like American Crime, I basically need Hulu. At least 1/3 of my ABC recordings are glitchy enough that I can't stand to watch them.

My house is surrounded by red pines. They are about 50-75' tall. The red pine is a skinny tree with a tuft of branches at the top. They catch the wind and sway like crazy. Because I live on a hill, there is no way to shoot over or under those tufts. I have found that a DB8 type antenna works better than a Yagi style antenna on a breezy day. I suspect this is because of the large reception area.

91XG (yagi)

DB8​

 

[NashGuy]

My house is surrounded by red pines. They are about 50-75' tall. The red pine is a skinny tree with a tuft of branches at the top. They catch the wind and sway like crazy. Because I live on a hill, there is no way to shoot over or under those tufts. I have found that a DB8 type antenna works better than a Yagi style antenna on a breezy day. I suspect this is because of the large reception area.

Thanks. I've tried several different antennas and ultimately settled on a DB2. I did try a DB4 but it did not give me better results. (BTW, I live anywhere from 6 to 13 miles from the towers. The ABC station which is most troublesome has their tower only 6 miles away. The PBS station -- which is VHF and relatively weaker -- has their tower in the same spot. Flawless.)

 

[Bigg]

Hartford has 945,250 TVHH and 106,000 are Hispanic for 11.21% Hispanic TV Households.

So significant like I said. You can hand pick a small market out of many states and pretty much get whatever result you want. My point is that we do have a significant hispanic population, mostly from Puerto Rico, although some from Mexico. What is great is hearing someone from Puerto Rico trying to talk to someone from Mexico. Puerto Rican Spanish is really different from every other spanish dialect. One time I was driving in the car with a friend who is Columbian, and I put the local spanish radio station on from Providence, and he couldn't figure out what the heck they were saying for quite a while, because it was Puerto Rican. Pretty funny and very interesting. For some reason I find languages and dialects fascinating, but I digress.

First, there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna. Antennas tune frequencies. It doesn't matter if the signal is HD or SD or if it is analog or digital.

Hence the air quotes about an "HDTV antenna".

That said, most of the antennas are easily recognizable as modern...except for this parabolic one that I covet. The funny thing is that they crop up in bunches and antennas in any given location tend to be the same. I assume this is the word of mouth effect.

Or what a store stock that works in that town or area.

I think it is possible that some of the antennas could be out of service. Even if I just bought an antenna -- especially if i hired someone to install it on the roof -- and gave up on broadcast television, I am not sure I would take it down. We had satellite dishes on the roof for nearly a decade after cancelling Dish.

Yeah, I'm wondering the same. Maybe somebody moved or whatever. I see tons of Phase III DirecTV dishes and DISH 500's. I suppose a few of them could be hooked up to some grandma who doesn't have HDTV, but most of the are out of service, and no one takes them down. Ugly as heck, since they are clearly old and out of date.

The most common antenna I see is the HD stacker...

You must be pretty deep reception to see antennas like that. The few I see are most often DB8 or DB4-like.

 

[wizwor]

Thanks. I've tried several different antennas and ultimately settled on a DB2. I did try a DB4 but it did not give me better results. (BTW, I live anywhere from 6 to 13 miles from the towers. The ABC station which is most troublesome has their tower only 6 miles away. The PBS station -- which is VHF and relatively weaker -- has their tower in the same spot. Flawless.)

Is it possible you are overdriving the tuners? At 6-13 miles, I might try something like this...

http://www.amazon.com/HDFrequency-C...072&sr=8-1&keywords=hd+frequency+cable+cutter

 

[wizwor]

wizwor....... It looks like MCM Electronics is a GREAT Off Air supplier.... with very good prices!!!
Thank You for posting it.

I meant to post two links...

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/30-2475
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/30-2476

The -76 has a couple more db gain and half the horizontal beam width. Worth $10 more, IMHO, if you are trying to pull a fringe station. I have all but talked myself into getting a pair assuming I can extend my y10-7-13 with part of one of these or the y5-7-13 to improve my Heroes and Icons experience.

Another source of VHF antennas...

http://www.abilityhdtv.com/product-...CH7_13_13db_high_gain_yagi_antenna-pid65.html

http://www.abilityhdtv.com/product-...ch7_13_10db_high_gain_yagi_antenna-pid66.html

VHF high-band (band III)
Channel Lower edge Video carrier DTV carrier Audio carrier Upper edge
7 174 175.25 174.31 179.75 180
8 180 181.25 180.31 185.75 186
9 186 187.25 186.31 191.75 192
10 192 193.25 192.31 197.75 198
11 198 199.25 198.31 203.75 204
12 204 205.25 204.31 209.75 210
13 210 211.25 210.31 215.75 216

 

[NashGuy]

Is it possible you are overdriving the tuners? At 6-13 miles, I might try something like this...

http://www.amazon.com/HDFrequency-C...072&sr=8-1&keywords=hd+frequency+cable+cutter

Thanks, but I've tried lots of stuff (although, no, not that specific antenna). Not amplifying the signal results in slightly worse results, regardless of the dozen or so different antennas I've tried. So overdriving does not appear to be the problem.

 

[wizwor]

I've tried lots of stuff

Have you tried running a commercially terminated coax directly from the antenna to one television? Do you have any way of measuring signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality as you experiment?

from http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/basics.html

Signal amplifiers are supposed to be linear. That is, the output is a magnified but otherwise unaltered version of the input. But too much signal can make an amplifier non-linear, usually clipping off the tops and bottoms of the sine waves. When this happens, all channels are affected, not just the one that is too strong. In fact, the too strong signal is usually not a TV station. A close FM station or police station is more likely.

If you add a good amplifier to your antenna system and your results get worse instead of better then you have overload, and you need to reconsider more carefully what you are doing.

If you are close to an FM station, there might be a narrow range between too much and too little amplifier gain. (Too little gain = dropouts, too much gain = overload.) You can make that range larger by using an amplifier with an FM trap or by using a more directional antenna. VHF preamplifiers usually include FM traps that can optionally be disabled. Freestanding FM traps are also available. FM traps can either cover the entire FM band or can be single frequency traps that you tune to the offending station. The former are less effective and tend to attenuate channel 6. If the FM station is close enough you might need more than one FM trap.

Here I show my TVFool report next to two instances of the HDHR Config Utility. As I adjust the antenna to pull in WMUR, I can easily see the impact of the change on WBZ.

Once you have your antenna pointed, the HDHR is a great tool for understanding performance issues. When I am having a bad reception day, I pop up the Config Utility to see what is going on.

http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_fro...313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_osacat=0&_odkw=HDHR3-US

 

[NashGuy]

Have you tried running a commercially terminated coax directly from the antenna to one television? Do you have any way of measuring signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality as you experiment?

Yes. And the only measurement tool I have is the diagnostics screen on my Roamio OTA.

After months of trying (I'm ashamed to even estimate the number of hours), I've just had to accept that my OTA reception is what it is: good enough for the most part and, when paired with a TiVo and a few streaming services, still a much better value than cable/satellite TV while giving me a more desirable set of viewing options at any given moment. But, of course, that's just me. YMMV.

Thanks for the friendly feedback, though!

 

[jth tv]

Yeah, thanks for the information, it will be very useful.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

So significant like I said. You can hand pick a small market out of many states and pretty much get whatever result you want. My point is that we do have a significant hispanic population, mostly from Puerto Rico, although some from Mexico. What is great is hearing someone from Puerto Rico trying to talk to someone from Mexico. Puerto Rican Spanish is really different from every other spanish dialect. One time I was driving in the car with a friend who is Columbian, and I put the local spanish radio station on from Providence, and he couldn't figure out what the heck they were saying for quite a while, because it was Puerto Rican. Pretty funny and very interesting. For some reason I find languages and dialects fascinating, but I digress.

As that is only 0.72% of the Hispanic Households in the USA, clearly we have different meanings of significant.

Quite frankly, you sound like the O.J. Simpson question at the end of the Bronco "chase", "What are all these n..... doing in Brentwood"? His words, not mine.

 

[wizwor]

Yes. And the only measurement tool I have is the diagnostics screen on my Roamio OTA.

After months of trying (I'm ashamed to even estimate the number of hours), I've just had to accept that my OTA reception is what it is: good enough for the most part and, when paired with a TiVo and a few streaming services, still a much better value than cable/satellite TV while giving me a more desirable set of viewing options at any given moment. But, of course, that's just me. YMMV.

Thanks for the friendly feedback, though!

You're welcome. If you would like to post or pm your tvfool report, I would be happy to look at it. But you are correct -- at some point the cost of improvement is unjustifiable.

I'm glad the conversation came up. Our discussion caused me to take a second look at the 30-2476 and I ended up buying four plus a 4x combiner (and a few other things).

 

[Bigg]

As that is only 0.72% of the Hispanic Households in the USA, clearly we have different meanings of significant.

Quite frankly, you sound like the O.J. Simpson question at the end of the Bronco "chase", "What are all these n..... doing in Brentwood"? His words, not mine.

In CT and RI, our hispanic population is majority Puertorriqueño. In most of the rest of the country, it is majority Mexicano with the exception of parts of Florida that are majority Cubano.

I'm assuming your 0.72% reference is Columbiano, which is irrelevant. My point was that Puerto Rican Spanish is really different, and a Mexicano wouldn't be any better off than the Culumbiano.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

In CT and RI, our hispanic population is majority Puertorriqueño. In most of the rest of the country, it is majority Mexicano with the exception of parts of Florida that are majority Cubano.

I'm assuming your 0.72% reference is Columbiano, which is irrelevant. My point was that Puerto Rican Spanish is really different, and a Mexicano wouldn't be any better off than the Culumbiano.

No, the 0.72% is ALL Hispanics.....the percent of total 100% Hispanic TV Households IN THE USA that are in the Hartford TV DMA.

 

[Bigg]

No, the 0.72% is ALL Hispanics.....the percent of total 100% Hispanic TV Households IN THE USA that are in the Hartford TV DMA.

What? That's a nonsensical statistic. The relevant measure would be what percentage of the population in Hartford-New Haven is hispanic.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

What? That's a nonsensical statistic. The relevant measure would be what percentage of the population in Hartford-New Haven is hispanic.

And again, we have seen your point of reference. 10% is significant to you, even though that is less than USA In general.

To most of America, 10% in a minority is almost non-existent.

 

[Bigg]

And again, we have seen your point of reference. 10% is significant to you, even though that is less than USA In general.

To most of America, 10% in a minority is almost non-existent.

That's significant anywhere. Even if it's not as much as in other places. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[wizwor]

wizwor....... It looks like MCM Electronics is a GREAT Off Air supplier.... with very good prices!!!
Thank You for posting it.

My first MCM order arrived today. I am very impressed. The order consisted of the following...

4x30-2476 - Deep Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174 - 230MHz $28.35 (Reg: $34.99) $113.40
1x33-2196 - High Shield Antenna 1GHz Splitter / Combiner - 4-way $3.59 (Reg: $3.99) $3.59
2x30-1030 - Guy Wire Clamp up to 1 1/2'' Mast $3.70 (Reg: $4.11) $7.40
1x33-2230 - UHF - VHF Antenna Combiner $6.29 (Reg: $6.99) $6.29

Total shipping was $9.99 and the total cost (after applying 10% off code from retailmenot) was $140.67.

So, $140 for four antennas, a 4x splitter, a pair of guy wire clamps, and a UVSJ.

The antennas are 7' long fully assembled. Assembly was very easy. For all but one of the reflectors, all of the directors and the driven element, you simply loosen a butterfly nut, rotate the rod, and screw it back down. The screws have a rubber washer which prevents the nut from accidentally falling off -- which would be good if you were assembling outside. The two beam sections and the reflector assembly attach with more screws and nuts -- all hardware being in the holes they would assemble to out of the box -- no bag of parts to match up. The mast clamp hardware was also pre-assembled and tied together with a twist tie. The balun is pre-attached to the beam.

It's still a little chilly to work in the attic comfortably. I'll compare this to a y10-7-13 when things warm up a bit. I am also going to add one or two of the front sections to an full antenna to max out the directors at 16 -- just to see if that adds much gain...

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/antennas/yagi/yagi-antenna-gain.php

Anyway, MCM looks like a good retailer and the 30-2476 looks like a solid antenna.