[Mike Djaba]

Hi there,

Having issues with my TIVO minis only, not the main one with PVR. Saw some similar posts but not clear which one from searching "neatly" applies to me.

I have a TIVO PVR in my main room and 2 TIVO minis currently set up in other rooms.

I'm with Cogeco. Tivo equipment is arris.

The TIVO minis get errors V872. Sometimes frequently, sometimes spaced apart, can't be predicted.

Back story:

• Cogeco doesn't advocate doing a manual MOCA setup ourselves because they provide a modem router 2-in-1. I found when gaming, I was disconnecting / getting dropped from some games (nintendo wii u). Many folks recommended I use the modem/router in bridge mode since i already have an EERO set up.
• To do that, i set up that up, and in doing so, i had to create a MOCA network for the TIVO myself instead of it all being automatic (as cogeco originally set it up). Thanks to a post from this community (much appreciated). THe MOCA is on channel 15 with a key that i had to have the other two connect with with the same details. It took a few minutes, but on a reboot it all started working.
• Getting dropped from games happens LESS frequently. That i dont care about much anymore. It's an improvement, but not entirely gone.
• What i do care about now is the TIVO minis get error v872, and i always have to press "Live TV" on the remote and it comes back on right away. This DID NOT occur before the change i did above. So something must be going on with the MOCA network that i did. At first i thought i could live with it... its getting annoying and wife is not happy!

My setup:

1. coax cable comes into the house and before it connects to a 2-way splitter, there is what seems to be a MOCA POE filter (SNLP-1G).
2. then from two filter; 1 of them goes to a 3-way splitter, which feeds the TIVOs (1+2); the other goes straight into the modem (modem/router 2-in-1 which is now only being used in bridge mode) - NOTE: cogeco provides cable for tv and internet
3. then from modem; ethernet goes to the gateway eero
4. from the gateway eero, then it goes to a switch, and from there i have a lot of wired connections (and wireless connections). the wired connections feed other eeros around the house. One of which has a wired connection to another switch which also feeds the main TIVO PVR (note: the minis do not have an ethernet connection)
5. i think i've more or less summarized the entire house connections (note: #4 above could be more described, but effectively i have 3 other main eeros with wired connections to where there are computers or the nintendo)

What are my solutions?

1. Please do share with your own thoughts, or with or without thoughts to the two below options
2. Do I just need to change the MOCA channel - saw this in an old post, dont think that's a real solution? but please let me know if it is
3. Do I need another MOCA POE filter right before the coax cable goes into the modem/router? i saw this in another thread in here. I've ordered a Holland MOCA POE filter (Model: MPOE-TM) just in case (if i don't need it; i can always return it)
4. Anything else?

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

P.S. Apologies for any spelling mistakes.
P.P.S. Pretty sure all my cat cables are fine. a few years ago i attached a device with a cat wire that ruined my entire home internet and once i swapped out that cat cable, everything was fine; i dont think i have that sort of issue
P.P.S. For added clarity For solution part 3; I mean something like a diagram on page 12 of the below linkhttps://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/video/at_home/Cable_Accessories/4031235_B.pdf#page=12

 

[krkaufman]

Re:

1. coax cable comes into the house and before it connects to a 2-way splitter, there is what seems to be a MOCA POE filter (SNLP-1G).
   
2. then from two filter; 1 of them goes to a 3-way splitter, which feeds the TIVOs (1+2); the other goes straight into the modem (modem/router 2-in-1 which is now only being used in bridge mode)
   ...
   
3. ...
4. ... (note: the minis do not have an ethernet connection)

If I'm understanding your description, the top-level 2-way splitter connects to the cable modem run and to a secondary 3-way splitter.

* Are there any other splitters downstream of this 3-way?

* What are the brand & model # of the splitters being used?

* What is the brand & model # of the modem (combo modem/router in bridge mode)?

 

[Mike Djaba]

Re:

If I'm understanding your description, the top-level 2-way splitter connects to the cable modem run and to a secondary 3-way splitter.

* Are there any other splitters downstream of this 3-way?

* What are the brand & model # of the splitters being used?

* What is the brand & model # of the modem (combo modem/router in bridge mode)?

Thanks for responding, answers below to your questions

• correct on the 2-way then connects to the cable modem run and then to a secondary 3-way splitter
• there are no other splitters after that (the coax that goes from the 3 splitters go through the walls and end up in the individual rooms to an outlet; then another coax connects to those and then to the individual TIVOs; but no splitters)
• 2-way splitter: BGI SGHMQK-2; 3-way splitter: BGI SGHMQK-3
• Modem is technicolor dpc3848vm

 

[krkaufman]

there are no other splitters after that (the coax that goes from the 3 splitters

There are only 2 splitters, right? (This should have said "from the 3-way splitter"?)

Given you are now using the TiVo DVR as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge, one short-term band-aid would be to move the "PoE" MoCA filter to the input of the 3-way splitter. At least for now, your MoCA network no longer needs to hit the 2-way and traverse to the modem coax run; all your MoCA traffic can be kept at/below the 3-way splitter. A side benefit of this is that shifting the location of the "PoE" MoCA filter as described moots the need to put a MoCA filter on the modem for protection (regardless of whether it would be needed); MoCA signals won't be anywhere near the modem*, so MoCA is eliminated as a cause for any modem issues. (*A stronger 70dB MoCA filter can be used, if desired.)

Medium-term, replace both BGI splitters with known-good MoCA 2.0 spec'd splitters; recommended models include the Holland GHS-PRO-M series and Verizon's MoCA 2.0 splitters. (You'd likely want a Holland GHS-2PRO-M & a GHS-3PRO-M; and you'd connect the 3-way's low-loss output port to the coax line heading to the DVR's outlet.)

 

[Mike Djaba]

There are only 2 splitters, right? (This should have said "from the 3-way splitter"?)

Given you are now using the TiVo DVR as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge, one short-term band-aid would be to move the "PoE" MoCA filter to the input of the 3-way splitter. At least for now, your MoCA network no longer needs to hit the 2-way and traverse to the modem coax run; all your MoCA traffic can be kept at/below the 3-way splitter. A side benefit of this is that shifting the location of the "PoE" MoCA filter as described moots the need to put a MoCA filter on the modem for protection (regardless of whether it would be needed); MoCA signals won't be anywhere near the modem*, so MoCA is eliminated as a cause for any modem issues. (*A stronger 70dB MoCA filter can be used, if desired.)

Medium-term, replace both BGI splitters with known-good MoCA 2.0 spec'd splitters; recommended models include the Holland GHS-PRO-M series and Verizon's MoCA 2.0 splitters. (You'd likely want a Holland GHS-2PRO-M & a GHS-3PRO-M; and you'd connect the 3-way's low-loss output port to the coax line heading to the DVR's outlet.)

correct on your first question

thanks for the response again!

new question for you as per your solution: does your "moving the POE" filter solution compare to the cisco page 12 link i posted above compare? is it effectively the same thing just done differently? just trying to understand.

for the medium term comment; two follow up questions - the low loss output purt for the DVR outlet; that's the -3.9db of the 3-pro right? not the other two -7.7? and why would i prefer the holland vs. anything else? just asking cause the 3-way isn't quickly available on amazon here in Canada, just curious what i should be looking for, in terms of "known-good"

 

[krkaufman]

new question for you as per your solution: does your "moving the POE" filter solution compare to the cisco page 12 link i posted above compare? is it effectively the same thing just done differently? just trying to understand.

It's not really the same thing, but it has the same effect as far as the modem is concerned.

My "band-aid" (not a "solution") is to move the "PoE" MoCA filter to shrink the size of your MoCA network to just the coax segments needed. Doing so reduces the total losses between nodes and may alleviate the hiccups you've been seeing. Further, getting the "PoE" MoCA filter on the input port of the 3-way splitter eliminates one BGI splitter from the MoCA path, and having the filter directly on the input of the 3-way may further improve MoCA performance by working around an incompatibility in the 3-way splitter.

That said, a side benefit of shrinking the "MoCA" coax plant in this way is that it puts the 2-way splitter and the modem outside the "MoCA" coax, so there's no longer a need to protect the modem from MoCA signals via an additional MoCA filter on the modem -- whether the modem is one that is sensitive to MoCA signals or not.

p.s. The "solution" includes getting the BGI splitters replaced with known-good MoCA 2.x splitters.

 

[krkaufman]

for the medium term comment; two follow up questions - the low loss output purt for the DVR outlet; that's the -3.9db of the 3-pro right? not the other two -7.7?

Yes, correct. (You'd want the stronger signal being sent to the DVR, rather than the Mini's.)

and why would i prefer the holland vs. anything else? just asking cause the 3-way isn't quickly available on amazon here in Canada, just curious what i should be looking for, in terms of "known-good"

It may matter less with the "PoE" MoCA filter directly on the input of the 3-way splitter, but two main factors in recommending the Holland and Verizon splitters are documented specs through the Extended Band D range (1125-1675 MHz), and lower output port isolation in the Ext Band D range ... more important when the MoCA signal port hops between output ports, which the "PoE" MoCA filter will hopefully preclude once installed on the input of the 3-way.

Good presentation on the subject, here, especially the "loss budget" section from pgs 15-24.

 

[Mike Djaba]

Thanks; bought some of those items now and will revert back with verdict; thanks again for your help in any event.

 

[krkaufman]

Thanks; bought some of those items now and will revert back with verdict; thanks again for your help in any event.

The "PoE" MoCA filter can be moved in the interim. It would be interesting to see whether that alone makes any improvement.

 

[Mike Djaba]

The "PoE" MoCA filter can be moved in the interim. It would be interesting to see whether that alone makes any improvement.

by the time I went to move the one poe filter; the other one came from Amazon... I ended up putting it before the modem as per that diagram in link above and so far (~36 hours) no issues. Thanks for the help again. Will still swap out the splitters when they come, and report back if problem arises again.
Thanks again

 

[krkaufman]

I ended up putting it before the modem as per that diagram in link above

I'd assumed I'd been convincing enough in the value of moving the "PoE" MoCA filter that I may not have cited all the benefits. With the advent of DOCSIS 3.1, whose frequencies overlap with MoCA, the preferred setup would isolate the modem coax line from the rest of the home's coax plant where MoCA signals are present.

Short-term there's really no difference between the isolated feed and the "prophylactic" MoCA filter, in terms of modem operation; but the isolated modem feed (free of filters) will be needed if/when your service level requires DOCSIS frequencies above 1002 MHz.

That said, the smaller the coax plant the MoCA signals have to cover the more efficient the gear can be.

 

[Mike Djaba]

I'd assumed I'd been convincing enough in the value of moving the "PoE" MoCA filter that I may not have cited all the benefits. With the advent of DOCSIS 3.1, whose frequencies overlap with MoCA, the preferred setup would isolate the modem coax line from the rest of the home's coax plant where MoCA signals are present.

Short-term there's really no difference between the isolated feed and the "prophylactic" MoCA filter, in terms of modem operation; but the isolated modem feed (free of filters) will be needed if/when your service level requires DOCSIS frequencies above 1002 MHz.

That said, the smaller the coax plant the MoCA signals have to cover the more efficient the gear can be.

You were convincing enough, don't take any offence; it's more of me not finding a window when the family is not watching TV or on internet with everyone being home due to covid; and me being too lazy by the time everyone is asleep! I probably will do that when the splitters come.

 

[krkaufman]

You were convincing enough, don't take any offence; it's more of me not finding a window when the family is not watching TV or on internet with everyone being home due to covid; and me being too lazy by the time everyone is asleep! I probably will do that when the splitters come.

Oh, no worries, just rationalizing why the info wasn't included earlier.

 

[krkaufman]

Thanks; bought some of those items now and will revert back with verdict; thanks again for your help in any event.

How are things working? Do you even still have TiVo’s? (I’m working another thread with those BGI splitters, so was curious how your MoCA network performance has been since your changes.)