[hpeter]

Hi,
I have XL4 and mini 9200. I use moca for XL4 network and it is running fine. But, the mini moca network is down. Spectrum is my cable provider. I have Actiontech ECB2500 moca adapters. My setup:

Outside > POE > Amplifier1 (VRA500B) > splitter > moca adapter > xl4 > tv1(works)
> Amplifier 2 (VRA500B) >modern > router > moca adapter
> Tuning adapter > xl4
> moca adapter > tivo mini > tv2 (no good)
> moca adapter > tivo mini > tv3 (no good)

I had reset the mini and it did not help. I had similar setup in the past without the Amplifier 2 (Spectrum tech said better to have it). Any thoughts on how to get mini working? Thanks
Peter

 

[krkaufman]

I'm not certain that I understand your setup, as described, so please bear with me.

Sidebar: The VRA500B is a standard cable amplifier (not one designed to support MoCA), with 4 amplified output ports (unity gain), and a single passive output port for VOIP (-4dB). Depending on the number of ports required, the preferred Antronix amp for a single drop amplifier setup supporting MoCA would be either the MVRA502B or MVRA902B model.​

It sounds like you have 2 amplifiers, not making a MoCA setup impossible but it certainly won't help. Some questions...

• Did you add an amplifier recently?
• Are these amplifiers located near each other or at different locations in the residence?
• Do all the coax runs emanate from a single central location, or do you have a few different junction points?

Also...

• How many XL4 DVRs do you have? (And are these 4-tuner Premiere models?)
• Do you have a Tuning Adapter installed at each DVR location?
• Is the(an) XL4 located at the modem/router location?

If possible, can you be more specific in how the coax runs and devices are connected, including specifying the splitter characteristics (2-way, 3-way, etc) and to which amplifier output the various coax runs connect; as well as the critical network/Ethernet gear and associated connections? A diagram, however rough (even hand-drawn) usually works best.

In the meantime, the Mini connections are especially confusing, as the description above:

> moca adapter > tivo mini > tv2 (no good)
> moca adapter > tivo mini > tv3 (no good)​

... would seem to indicate that the Minis are connected via coax to a MoCA adapter at each location, but with the Minis being configured as MoCA clients. This setup would be problematic since the "TV/STB Out" pass-through port of MoCA adapters severely attenuates MoCA signals, preventing any MoCA communication through the port. In such a setup, the Mini would need to be connected via Ethernet to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port (directly or via a network switch) and configured for an Ethernet connection.

 

[krkaufman]

p.s. I'd also be curious to know why all the extra MoCA adapters are being used when all the listed TiVo gear (XL4, Minis) have built-in MoCA functionality. (There are plenty of good reasons to do so, but I want to confirm a reason rather than simply not realizing the TiVo gear was all MoCA-ready.)

 

[krkaufman]

I had similar setup in the past without the Amplifier 2 (Spectrum tech said better to have it).

If the similar setup was what you cited in another thread...

TWC put in a Antronix VRA900B amplifier to connect all the lines together. It has 8 outputs and from what i can tell it should work with MOCA.

... the key/critical difference* is that it was a single drop-amp setup, even if not the preferred "designed for MoCA" MVRA902B model (or MVRA502B if fewer outputs are needed).

edit: * ... aside from the previously mentioned possible Mini/MoCA adapter connection issues.

 

[krkaufman]

p.s. I'd also be curious to know why all the extra MoCA adapters are being used when all the listed TiVo gear (XL4, Minis) have built-in MoCA functionality. (There are plenty of good reasons to do so, but I want to confirm a reason rather than simply not realizing the TiVo gear was all MoCA-ready.)

Basically, assuming an amp that doesn't block MoCA, why wouldn't you simply rig it as pictured below to get your TiVo boxes networked?

 

[hpeter]

Hi, I have been working with Spectrum tech the past few days on this. I can say all 4 that came to my house have little clue on this. Their supervisor suggests i get a new system (from them of course).
I finally redo all the connections after seeing your suggestions. And , MAGIC ... Tivo mini is working. THANKS

 

[krkaufman]

Good to hear.

You might want to check the MoCA stats reported by your Mini’s, to check the health/efficiency of your MoCA network. (Under Network Status)

 

[krkaufman]

p.s. Now, if you wanted to leverage your coax to extend wired networking for devices other than your TiVo boxes (e.g. PCs, gaming consoles, Ethernet-capable streamers, wireless access points or mesh satellites), that could be accomplished with a few tweaks (and add'l MoCA adapters) ... though it would already be an easy add-on at the XL4 location, since you could leverage the XL4's built-in MoCA bridging and its otherwise-unused Ethernet port. See >this post< for more info on extending wired access via a MoCA client TiVo DVR.

 

[krkaufman]

I finally redo all the connections after seeing your suggestions. And , MAGIC ... Tivo mini is working.

Of course, it isn't magic; which makes cable techs' inability to properly set it up mind-numbing. (And that cascaded amplifier was a real classic.)

 

[hpeter]

Krkaufman,
Thanks for the follow up. I am afraid that I need your help again with regards to MoCA health/efficiency. I have upload my setup (pdf) and screen shots from XL4 (XL4a, b and c) as well as Mini (minia, b, c and d). Can you take a look and tell me what else should I do? Thanks for your helps.
Peter

 

[krkaufman]

I'll take a look.

Quick thought Re: the diagram...

​

The pictured amplifier isn't designed for MoCA; Antronix's MVRA902B is their equivalent "designed for MoCA" amp (with improved MoCA communication between output ports, including the passive VOIP port, and includes a built-in MoCA filter). And you might consider just the MVRA502B if you don't have more than 4 coax runs to support. (more on the MVRA amps >here<)

In the meantime, with your current amplifier, you might consider moving your main coax run to the modem/XL4 location to Output 1 (from Output 5), and shift the other 2 runs to Outputs 2 & 3. I've seen install instructions for non-MoCA amplifiers (though perhaps not your model) indicating that the lower ports provide better MoCA connectivity. edit: NOTE: Use ports 2-4, if Output 1 is being used for remote powering the amp.

Not that you're up for risking additional drop-offs, but I was reminded that some non-MoCA amps come with special setup instructions, as a workaround to providing actual MoCA support...


So it'd be interesting if your problematic MoCA lines were similarly grouped on your Antronix amp.

edit: p.s. Interesting note from that other thread, for future reference...

OK, I found the problem. Upstream there was an AC Adapter/Amplifier (Model #: YL1200500) that has always been there. I unplugged it and the MoCA lights on my Adapters lit up again but I got no cable signal. I plugged the Amp back in and the tv started working again plus the MoCA was working again. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

 

[krkaufman]

I'm curious how this other poster achieved such stellar MoCA stats using the same supposedly NOT "designed for MoCA" amp:

The TX PHY Rate is 276.923076 Mbps. The RX PHY Rate is 273.185265 Mbps. The TX Power Estimate is at -27.00 dBm. The RX Power Estimate is 0.474 dBm. Is that good?

Those numbers are surprisingly excellent. -27 dBm is near the max power reduction for the MoCA signal (-30), and the +270 Mbps PHY rates are optimal, as well.

Are you seeing those stats for all of your nodes? (Again, I'm surprised to see such near optimal stats given your MoCA signals are supposedly traveling through a non-MoCA amp. Heck, those numbers are tough to achieve outside a direct coax connection between two MoCA adapters!)

There are 6 nodes:

Node 1:
TX PHY Rate: 274.647887 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 274.647887 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.474 dBm

Node 2:
TX PHY Rate: 238.676707 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 208.516483 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.559 dBm

Node 3:
TX PHY Rate: 178.805809 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 119.867183 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.637 dBm

Node 4:
TX PHY Rate: 236.417428 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 254.333694 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.469 dBm

Node 5:
TX PHY Rate: 166.057019 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 255.155482 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.464 dBm

Node 6:
TX PHY Rate: 236.740182 Mbps
RX PHY Rate: 254.821235 Mbps
TX Power Estimate: -27.00 dBm
RX Power Estimate: 0.427 dBm

 

[skid71]

Krkaufman,
Thanks for the follow up. I am afraid that I need your help again with regards to MoCA health/efficiency. I have upload my setup (pdf) and screen shots from XL4 (XL4a, b and c) as well as Mini (minia, b, c and d). Can you take a look and tell me what else should I do? Thanks for your helps.
Peter

Where are these Mini MoCA pages found? I've been digging through menus all morning and cannot find them.
Thank you

 

[krkaufman]

Where are these Mini MoCA pages found? I've been digging through menus all morning and cannot find them.
Thank you

The Network Status option, under Network Troubleshooting. And use your Channel Down/Up remote button to page through the multiple pages.

See this TiVo how-to: TiVo MoCA Troubleshooting: PHY Rates

Screenshots capture everything, but other useful info beyond PHY rates include MoCA channel, # of nodes and TX & RX power estimates. Also, PHY rates for MoCA 1.1 should, ideally, be in the mid-200s. TX power estimate can vary from -30 to +3 (lower the better), with PHY rates beginning to suffer at max TX signal amplification of +3.