[wmcbrine]

I had no idea that was happening. Thanks for the info.

Supposedly they vastly outnumber retail TiVos now, although I've never been in the territory of a cable company that offered them.

 

[hummingbird_206]

Supposedly they vastly outnumber retail TiVos now, although I've never been in the territory of a cable company that offered them.

I seem to remember there was an effort years ago to put TiVo s/w on Comcast's DVRs, but I think that didn't work out. After that I lost track and as you mentioned, I was never in a place where the cable co offered a TiVo rather than their own DVR.

 

[dianebrat]

I seem to remember there was an effort years ago to put TiVo s/w on Comcast's DVRs, but I think that didn't work out. After that I lost track and as you mentioned, I was never in a place where the cable co offered a TiVo rather than their own DVR.

That was an enormous failure, the Motorola boxes couldn't handle the increased demands.
However many companies have been offering Tivo sourced boxes for years now, RCN is one of several common ones.

 

[Jed1]

Supposedly that wanted the tech for the failed Google Fiber TV. And then there is this too.
SageTV to go open source (four years after Google acquired the media center/DVR software) - Liliputing
In the battle with Amazon who knows what Google will acquire. But if they bought both Tivo and Pace...Amazon might sweat a little. And you would have Tivo's with enough memory and power for live streaming apps.

Arris bought Pace in 2016.
ARRIS Completes Pace Acquisition

 

[PSU_Sudzi]

Arris bought Pace in 2016.
ARRIS Completes Pace Acquisition

Arris also bought Digeo years ago, who made Moxi DVRs, quite a good product, and then ran them into the ground. Moxi had an HD interface before TiVo did.

 

[KevTech]

Arris bought Pace in 2016.

2018 Commscope purchased Arris.

 

[wdwms]

Can confirm pre-roll ads have been removed from my system after calling Tivo on Sunday.. HOWEVER, the guide ads are stil there. Will call them today. These are extremely annoying, i have memory of where specific channels are, now everything is all dorked up.

 

[Mikeguy]

TiVo Ted's response regarding the ability to downgrade is actually very good news. I guess the TiVo guy I spoke to (not Ted) was misinformed, or the higher-ups changed their minds recently.

I'm going to say something that is probably unpopular here.

If it helps to keep TiVo selling retail boxes, the commercials really aren't a huge issue for me. I would rather have the commercials with TiVo than no commercials and no TiVo. Of course, zero pre-roll ads would be great, but it's only a quick button press to skip them; then the rest of the program is commercial free with Auto Commercial Skip. So, basically, it's a single button press more and you're done.

There may be some other options for TiVo to make additional money. What if they added one or two dollars extra to the TiVo monthly service fee? What if you had the option to choose?

It seems to me, that for most of you it's a "principle thing," and I get that. TiVo could have done this differently (raising the monthly price) and there wouldn't have been as much of a backlash. Hopefully they will reconsider or come up with something a little more palatable for most users.

I think that the situation only has been exacerbated by the current glitchy-like implementation of the pre-roll ads pass-off and back, which turns a speedbump into something of a pothole. Hopefully, that can be improved, but the fact of the involvement of TiVo's servers conceivably will place limits on what can be done. That will get old very fast.

 

[Mikeguy]

Tivo Ted works for TiVo. He has said TE3 won't get ads. He said it plainly. End of speculation.

Just for complete accuracy (and not meaning to predict anything negative by this):

At this point, TiVo have no plans to implement pre-roll ads on TE3. I'm sorry my earlier statement was not clear on this.

 

[Jed1]

Arris also bought Digeo years ago, who made Moxi DVRs, quite a good product, and then ran them into the ground. Moxi had an HD interface before TiVo did.

Yes I actually had the 3 tuner Moxi with two mates but sold them as soon as Arris bought them. Arris sold the Moxi UI to Espial a few years ago. My cable company was using the Arris Whole Home solution (Moxi UI) but just switched to TiVo.
TiVo was actually my last choice as I originally was using TVGOS embedded devices like the Sony DHG, Windows Media Center with extenders, and Moxi. If it wasn't for the lawsuit settlement with Dish I think TiVo would have been long gone as they were really behind when it came to the HD UI, the use of client or extender boxes. I never liked TiVo Central as it seems there is always to many button pushes to get to things. With TVGOS there was a action bar at the top of the guide and you can access everything from there. There was also a master list of channels that downloaded to the guide and you can enter the channel editor to turn on the channels if your cable system added new channels.
Another thing I did not like about TiVo Central, especially with TE3, it is not an overlay menu and requires a HDMI handshake as it broadcasts in 720p. TiVo finally changed this with TE4.

Like I said I ended up with TiVo in the end as it is the only device left to consumers that uses CableCards. I had to buy my two CableCards years ago, paid $125 for each one. As long as I keep them active SECV will keep them going. I started using them in 2004. If I decide to stop using them then they are done so If I try to go back to cable I would then have to rent new ones.
One thing I learned over the years is these consumer owned guides and devices never really took off with the masses as the buy in cost was always to high or as in the case with WMC was to complicated for the average person to use even though WMC came with all XP, Vista, Win7 devices. TiVo is having the same problem as the buy in cost is way to high and I do feel that there is an unfortunate end coming just like what happened to TVGOS, WMC, and Moxi.

 

[JoeKustra]

TiVo is having the same problem as the buy in cost is way to high and I do feel that there is an unfortunate end coming just like what happened to TVGOS, WMC, and Moxi.

You always manage to cheer me up.

 

[gary.buhrmaster]

MSOs = cable companies.

Just for completeness (for the person that asked the question), MSO = Multiple System Operators. For regulatory reasons, a specific cable system is a single facility, but except for the really tiny players serving a single community most operators run multiple systems supporting multiple communities, making them MSOs (although in common usage of the term, it is used only for the slightly larger players, not some tiny player who happens to expand to the community next door).

 

[Joe3]

Yes I actually had the 3 tuner Moxi with two mates but sold them as soon as Arris bought them. Arris sold the Moxi UI to Espial a few years ago. My cable company was using the Arris Whole Home solution (Moxi UI) but just switched to TiVo.
TiVo was actually my last choice as I originally was using TVGOS embedded devices like the Sony DHG, Windows Media Center with extenders, and Moxi. If it wasn't for the lawsuit settlement with Dish I think TiVo would have been long gone as they were really behind when it came to the HD UI, the use of client or extender boxes. I never liked TiVo Central as it seems there is always to many button pushes to get to things. With TVGOS there was a action bar at the top of the guide and you can access everything from there. There was also a master list of channels that downloaded to the guide and you can enter the channel editor to turn on the channels if your cable system added new channels.
Another thing I did not like about TiVo Central, especially with TE3, it is not an overlay menu and requires a HDMI handshake as it broadcasts in 720p. TiVo finally changed this with TE4.

Like I said I ended up with TiVo in the end as it is the only device left to consumers that uses CableCards. I had to buy my two CableCards years ago, paid $125 for each one. As long as I keep them active SECV will keep them going. I started using them in 2004. If I decide to stop using them then they are done so If I try to go back to cable I would then have to rent new ones.
One thing I learned over the years is these consumer owned guides and devices never really took off with the masses as the buy in cost was always to high or as in the case with WMC was to complicated for the average person to use even though WMC came with all XP, Vista, Win7 devices. TiVo is having the same problem as the buy in cost is way to high and I do feel that there is an unfortunate end coming just like what happened to TVGOS, WMC, and Moxi.

If the TiVo buy in was a problem, it been a problem for years. So why didn't they come out with a non draconian solution.

They could have offered solutions to lower the cost of the buy in by shrinking the form factor for that very purpose. Offering a much smaller box that did not have a hard drive and have the customer buy the storage that meets their needs themselves. They could have offered ads for free service or no ads for subscriptions or for a one shot lifetime fee. This company is being run into the ground, forced to die the slow death greed and stupidity. The hard drive in the TiVo never reduced the price when hard drive prices were dropping. The savings never past along to consumers. (Greed) A high school's dropouts plan to throw the Ads down "everyone" throats like a greasy haired slick ripoff artist trying to sell you a used car on blocks. (Stupidity)

 

[BobCamp1]

I think that the situation only has been exacerbated by the current glitchy-like implementation of the pre-roll ads pass-off and back, which turns a speedbump into something of a pothole. Hopefully, that can be improved, but the fact of the involvement of TiVo's servers conceivably will place limits on what can be done. That will get old very fast.

Also it didn't help that they released the new functionality to beta testers who didn't know they were beta testers. Therefore, they posted here panicked and it got off to a really bad start.

They may want to reset that list and ask the real beta testers to reapply.

The only thing worse than bad news is finding out about it second-hand.

 

[snerd]

I think that the situation only has been exacerbated by the current glitchy-like implementation of the pre-roll ads pass-off and back, which turns a speedbump into something of a pothole. Hopefully, that can be improved, but the fact of the involvement of TiVo's servers conceivably will place limits on what can be done. That will get old very fast.

I believe it is technically possible for TiVo to implement pre-roll ads by downloading them in advance, perhaps in some sort of rotating fashion, all in the background. After all, the base OS underneath the TiVo code is Linux, which is perfectly capable of mulltitasking. There is no fundamental reason that the TiVo needs to wait for the launch of a recording to download the ad. It sounds to me like they've made some poor coding choices in their implementation of this "feature". It could be very snappy if done correctly.

 

[Joe3]

... It sounds to me like they've made some poor coding choices in their implementation of this "feature". It could be very snappy if done correctly.

Why, and why consistently do they do so much incorrectly in the technology area, ahh, not a real tech company since raided by their current jailers, oh owners, fits.

 

[Charles R]

There is no fundamental reason that the TiVo needs to wait for the launch of a recording to download the ad.

I agree the ad could be "served" locally. At the same time I'm guessing the management (selection/tracking/etc) of the ads would still be handled remotely requiring two way communications. Of course you could batch some of that activity and in reality almost any task can be improved as it's simply a matter of time and money. However often neither is justifiable.

 

[bobfrank]

TiVo Ted's response regarding the ability to downgrade is actually very good news. I guess the TiVo guy I spoke to (not Ted) was misinformed, or the higher-ups changed their minds recently.

I'm going to say something that is probably unpopular here.

If it helps to keep TiVo selling retail boxes, the commercials really aren't a huge issue for me. I would rather have the commercials with TiVo than no commercials and no TiVo. Of course, zero pre-roll ads would be great, but it's only a quick button press to skip them; then the rest of the program is commercial free with Auto Commercial Skip. So, basically, it's a single button press more and you're done.

There may be some other options for TiVo to make additional money. What if they added one or two dollars extra to the TiVo monthly service fee? What if you had the option to choose?

It seems to me, that for most of you it's a "principle thing," and I get that. TiVo could have done this differently (raising the monthly price) and there wouldn't have been as much of a backlash. Hopefully they will reconsider or come up with something a little more palatable for most users.

Amen

 

[slice1900]

I believe it is technically possible for TiVo to implement pre-roll ads by downloading them in advance, perhaps in some sort of rotating fashion, all in the background. After all, the base OS underneath the TiVo code is Linux, which is perfectly capable of mulltitasking. There is no fundamental reason that the TiVo needs to wait for the launch of a recording to download the ad. It sounds to me like they've made some poor coding choices in their implementation of this "feature". It could be very snappy if done correctly.

That's how Directv has been doing ad insertion on its DVRs for years. The DVRs download ads (via satellite not internet) in the background and save them on the drive, and when something is playing they insert those ads in the slots reserved for the distributor (i.e. when your cable company runs ads for the local car dealer) If you watch on a receiver instead of a DVR you won't see those ads, instead you see ads for Directv/AT&T (i.e. these are the ones you see if you watch in a bar that has Directv)

Not sure why Tivo implemented this by live streaming the ads. I suppose it lets them select from a wider array of ads so they can target it more precisely based on who you are and what you're watching. They could download a bunch of ads so they've got one for everything you might record/watch, but some people might complain about how much bandwidth that's using downloading a bunch of ads 'just in case'. It doesn't matter for Directv since they're not using the internet.

 

[JoeKustra]

I believe it is technically possible for TiVo to implement pre-roll ads by downloading them in advance, perhaps in some sort of rotating fashion, all in the background.

This was done pre-Roamio days. Some members would post seeing a red LED for no reason. I think the Discovery channel was used. There are no guide updates from 6pm to 2am, so that's a big hole to use.