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We are not the "mass numbers". We are just a few dozen enthusiastic users with too much knowledge that we enjoy sharing. It's the TiVo's used by MSOs that never heard of TE4 that are the "masses". My company has a TE4 ad twice an hour now, and it runs on its message channel continuously. They only charge an extra $50 to install it. They use eero and don't list that imaginary Mini "wireless adapter" on their web site. It's a funny world. But I'm not laughing right now.
This comes up often, we are much more than few dozen TiVo owner. We may not be the many stuck with a dying technology. It's obviously a "deadman walking" plan that only further convinces me that Rovi is not in it for the long game and is continually shorting the company.

What a retail tech company does when it's not in the hands of bunch of vultures, is it keep innovation fresh. If it can't sell in retail, they change the product quickly until it does sell.
 

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Careful. It is a Terms of Service Violation to either file a class action OR participate in one, so if Tivo has a way to find out if you participated, they''ll likely terminate your service (which yes, they can do if you violate the TOS EVEN IF YOU PAID FOR LIFETIME).
Rovi troll crawl back to your hole with you're scare tactics.
 

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Ok give me a better conclusion.
There is a patern of behavior over the years by Rovi that can reveal Rovi is a corporate predator and raided TiVo and deceived us of their true intent. There is a clear pattern of behavior. There is no real evidence that Rovi was ever a tech company and there is no evidence since Rovi bought TiVo that TiVo is still a tech company since it lacks any technology advance outside that lipstick on the pig thing they pulled with Hydra, which is a cosmetic graphic design.
 

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I've seen you post that before but I'm not sure that is gonna fly as an argument to win a court case. Really not sure what being a tech company or not has to do with it, TiVo could be a bank holding company making DVRs and it would have no effect on how they design their software.
Well, flagrant misrepresenting their position to TiVo customers. I don't know about the bank on how it would effect how they would design their software, but I am assuming it would as soon as the teller takes a screwdriver to it :)
 

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I'm really trying to credit your views. But I keep on coming up with the wall in the TiVo user's agreement, etc., and for which there has not been a response: "Features and functionality are subject to change. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you." (TiVo User Agreement.)
These click e-agreements have been challenged in the Court and are not held to the same standard as a binding contract and for good reason. The click e-agreement can say anything it wants, but you as an individual having certain protections under law, you can not be taken advantage of. The judge has the authority, not a click it e-document to determine if the class action suit has merit. In case, is there a pattern of behavior that shows Rovi misrepresented themselves when they bought TiVo by not revealing they are a predatory company to TiVo customers as Rovi's behavior suggests. The idea that they misrepresented themselves to us is the only explanation that fits as an answer to their questionable behaviors, but makes perfect sense if they are a predatory corporation that raided TiVo for what they could squeeze out its good name. It's clear that TiVo questionable behavior as of late and since Rovi took control strongly suggests they are not acting as tech company, but like a bunch of vultures picking off what's left of the old TiVo bones and doing nothing else, but hiding this behind the TiVo's brand.
 

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after reading 37 pages of extreme anger I will now predict tivo will back off of this nonsense, Just like Coke backed off "New coke " :)
That's in a democracy. Since Rovi, TiVo has been no democracy.

Technology is a democratic tool freeing people from mundane tasks and giving them more freedom to do what they want. People will pay a good price for the freedom technology provides even if they have to pay a ridiculous high price for it like a phone if they get some freedom from its use. Remember at the beginning, all the debates about rich and poor alike being in equal participation and access new technology because we are a free nation and technology gives us more freedoms?

Since Rovi, TiVo has not practiced a Steve Jobs like technology. I believe TiVo is being held hostage by someone who is insane and he/she will not take their thumb off our backs. I believe most people at TiVo may believe this use of ad dumping is a bad idea. But there is someone holding too much power and ego and is obviously paid too much to ever admit a mistake.
 

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Additional ad revenue is not going to reduce prices. This is not a zero sum game we're playing. When you're a publicly traded company there is constant pressure by shareholders to increase profits each year. So you can either raise monthly subscriber fees each year or you can introduce things like advertisements.
Or you could make a product people will want to buy, like any other tech company.
 

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Finally, almost everybody in this forum has been a customer long enough and is eligible to opt out. So quit whining about it and do it already! Your empty threats of leaving Tivo for good ("and this time I mean it") and class-action lawsuits are falling on deaf ears because it's not going to happen. Downgrading to TE3 will happen because some people are paranoid. But maybe you can try opting out before the ads come to your Tivos; like a horrible virus infecting your DVR that posts your playlist on the Internet for everyone to see, sends an electrical surge frying all the components in your entertainment center, then finally bursts into flames.
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Wow, see the above for an example of the foreign philosophy of low expectations that's killing the country by making surrender and cowardice in the face of deception, the truth, but failing, thank God, always failing with a laugh.
 

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According to TiVoTed these are things needed to keep out of pocket cost down going forward as the consumer side has not changed much in the past 20 years:
TiVo inserting short advert before playing a recording
If to many of us retail owners either opt out of these ads or roll back to TE3 then there will be consequences for all retail owners going forward.
oh my! You go first and save us from the consequences of the Rovi marauders.

"Where are those stinking little TiVo rebels, quick, quick, under the bed fellow Rovi marauders."
 

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I wonder if the people who get the ads turned off and have the special version update will not get other new features later on though. Essentially being in "maintenance mode" again but on TE4. Like if some new great feature is introduced you have to upgrade to get it and then the ads return?

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Please, look on bright side, Rovi/TiVo hasn't had an original great feature to introduced for anyone's must have to upgrade to get it since Rovi bought TiVo and wouldn't know an original great feature if it bit them.
 

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You know I still have one question about what's going on. And that is, is it ACTUALLY CONFIRMED that Tivo will be eliminating roll backs to TE3? Is that in the news somewhere, or been confirmed by Tivo Ted? Even with the ads I'd keep TE4 on the Bolt since I am using it to test external 3.5 PMR drives. Plus I like monitoring how it evolves (or devolves). And I would not mind seeing how the ads would affect me, I could always opt out. But I DON'T want to get stuck with TE4 forever, I still prefer TE3, at least for now. So is it FOR SURE confirmed Tivo will be eliminating roll backs to TE3? If so where is it confirmed and is there any possible time frame given?
Perhaps, the question you should ask yourself is why would Rovi/TiVo let me roll back if they can make more money off me?
 

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As many an issue that I have with the on-call ads, I do think that TiVo values the customer experience. But it also values its stock price, being able to sell its constituent parts, its on-going existence, etc. It's the balance there and how best to reach it that seems in question.
Can't serve two masters. Can't burn a candle at both ends and not get burned.
 

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Really, there can't be a happy compromise for a company?
No, not a Rovi/TiVo company. Unless the Edge can produce something more than an embarrassing giggle from the tech world and prove itself as a tech company. But they have had more years to prove they are still in the technology business, more years than any other tech company and so far has failed dissapontingly to show any progress other than a willingness to pick at our bones with ads. Rather, than giving us the technology that meets the needs of their customers, instead they chose to bite the hand that feeds them. The Rovi business plan.
 

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I don't mind TiVo rolling out ads to new customers, or existing customers who are month to month, or annual. Doing it to existing lifetime? Stinks.

I've been with TiVo long enough that I paid separately ($99) for "Home Media Option" on my S2 (it originally was an add on). TiVo bought some goodwill IMHO by implementing Skip-mode on existing hardware for free. They could have limited it to the Bolt, or charged more for it. (And I'd have gladly paid)

Instead of this ad "feature" if they offered new features, such as profiles, or better parental controls, and offered them as an add on (eg Lifetime subscribers, want user profiles? Now available for $100) I'd be all for it. Monthly subscription $5 more per month if you don't want preroll ads? Sure.

Forcing this "feature" on existing customers stinks.
I'm with you 100%. I also would prefer no ads, but for me, having TiVo is the most important part of the equation. And one more button press is not that big a deal to me. Heck, I don't even care that I don't have auto-skip. And there are even times where I use the FF method to advance even though I know I have the Skip button.

Every person is different. What is important to each of us may be different. But I wholeheartedly agree that perhaps the situation could have been handled differently.
You know guys, I too want to see TiVo thrive, grow, and stick around. I think this action is not a one and done thing. It's a pattern of behavior that sets the bar low and is the philosophy of low exceptions. It is the lazy idea of just enough is good enough. TiVo is an American invention and it should act that way and not in the way of a loser, which is a foreign idea to us, and false, but these words in our history have always been true.

"If a man can write a better book, preach a better sermon, or build a better mouse-trap than his neighbor; though he build him a house in the woods, yet will all the world make a beaten path to his door."
 

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Yes I actually had the 3 tuner Moxi with two mates but sold them as soon as Arris bought them. Arris sold the Moxi UI to Espial a few years ago. My cable company was using the Arris Whole Home solution (Moxi UI) but just switched to TiVo.
TiVo was actually my last choice as I originally was using TVGOS embedded devices like the Sony DHG, Windows Media Center with extenders, and Moxi. If it wasn't for the lawsuit settlement with Dish I think TiVo would have been long gone as they were really behind when it came to the HD UI, the use of client or extender boxes. I never liked TiVo Central as it seems there is always to many button pushes to get to things. With TVGOS there was a action bar at the top of the guide and you can access everything from there. There was also a master list of channels that downloaded to the guide and you can enter the channel editor to turn on the channels if your cable system added new channels.
Another thing I did not like about TiVo Central, especially with TE3, it is not an overlay menu and requires a HDMI handshake as it broadcasts in 720p. TiVo finally changed this with TE4.

Like I said I ended up with TiVo in the end as it is the only device left to consumers that uses CableCards. I had to buy my two CableCards years ago, paid $125 for each one. As long as I keep them active SECV will keep them going. I started using them in 2004. If I decide to stop using them then they are done so If I try to go back to cable I would then have to rent new ones.
One thing I learned over the years is these consumer owned guides and devices never really took off with the masses as the buy in cost was always to high or as in the case with WMC was to complicated for the average person to use even though WMC came with all XP, Vista, Win7 devices. TiVo is having the same problem as the buy in cost is way to high and I do feel that there is an unfortunate end coming just like what happened to TVGOS, WMC, and Moxi.
If the TiVo buy in was a problem, it been a problem for years. So why didn't they come out with a non draconian solution.

They could have offered solutions to lower the cost of the buy in by shrinking the form factor for that very purpose. Offering a much smaller box that did not have a hard drive and have the customer buy the storage that meets their needs themselves. They could have offered ads for free service or no ads for subscriptions or for a one shot lifetime fee. This company is being run into the ground, forced to die the slow death greed and stupidity. The hard drive in the TiVo never reduced the price when hard drive prices were dropping. The savings never past along to consumers. (Greed) A high school's dropouts plan to throw the Ads down "everyone" throats like a greasy haired slick ripoff artist trying to sell you a used car on blocks. (Stupidity)
 
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