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after reading 37 pages of extreme anger I will now predict tivo will back off of this nonsense, Just like Coke backed off "New coke " :)
That's in a democracy. Since Rovi, TiVo has been no democracy.

Technology is a democratic tool freeing people from mundane tasks and giving them more freedom to do what they want. People will pay a good price for the freedom technology provides even if they have to pay a ridiculous high price for it like a phone if they get some freedom from its use. Remember at the beginning, all the debates about rich and poor alike being in equal participation and access new technology because we are a free nation and technology gives us more freedoms?

Since Rovi, TiVo has not practiced a Steve Jobs like technology. I believe TiVo is being held hostage by someone who is insane and he/she will not take their thumb off our backs. I believe most people at TiVo may believe this use of ad dumping is a bad idea. But there is someone holding too much power and ego and is obviously paid too much to ever admit a mistake.
 

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What’s the going CPM rate nowadays for preroll?

Did TiVo hire an army of sales reps to sell directly to advertisers in various markets?

Or are they just leveraging a back-fill ad network? (Substantially less revenue there)

how much revenue do we actually think this will bring in? They have less than 1M retail customers as of now. (Not all of which are eligible for ads)

if they’re using an ad network I can’t see them making a ton of money.

If they hired sales staff, that’s a large cost and investment that they’d need to ensure they cover with generated sales.

Is there anything in their recent investor reports to give an idea of their anticipated revenue?
 

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It not now then when? If they're earning ad revenue today, why aren't prices going down today? I don't see what would be different next year.
Additional ad revenue is not going to reduce prices. This is not a zero sum game we're playing. When you're a publicly traded company there is constant pressure by shareholders to increase profits each year. So you can either raise monthly subscriber fees each year or you can introduce things like advertisements.
 

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Lifetime is lifetime. It doesn't matter how many years. They got all the money up front. Under no situation would it be fair to subject lifetime subscribers to pre-roll ads. We can't vote with our wallets and walk away like monthly or annual subscribers can.
It's not lifetime, it's all-in. As in, "Tivo is awesome and can do no wrong." As per the agreement. It's perfectly fair to subject all-in customers to it, since they paid to get all of the "experience." Also, you bought all-in service because it was the cheapest plan. So technically you're already on the cheapest plan, and those plans are the ones most subject to ads.

And if you thought, "Tivo would never do something like insert pre-roll video ads," even though they have inserted ads on the home screen since day one and figured out how to put ads on the pause bar of all places, then that also should influence your next purchase and whether you should pay for all-in service or not.

Besides, we've known for a while that the retail customers are pretty much beta testers for their more prized MSO customers. So if you're all-in in being a guinea pig, that's great. If not, that should influence your next decision about all-in service.

Finally, almost everybody in this forum has been a customer long enough and is eligible to opt out. So quit whining about it and do it already! Your empty threats of leaving Tivo for good ("and this time I mean it") and class-action lawsuits are falling on deaf ears because it's not going to happen. Downgrading to TE3 will happen because some people are paranoid. But maybe you can try opting out before the ads come to your Tivos; like a horrible virus infecting your DVR that posts your playlist on the Internet for everyone to see, sends an electrical surge frying all the components in your entertainment center, then finally bursts into flames.

Tell Tivo you've changed your mind and you now want out of the all-in experience. Even though you gave up all your leverage by going all-in in the first place. But please remember this the next time you buy your next Tivo's service plan.
 

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Bryan
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It not now then when? If they're earning ad revenue today, why aren't prices going down today? I don't see what would be different next year.
When TiVO splits into two companies in 2020 the Patents Inc side will no longer contribute to TiVO Inc. bottom line. Something has to replace this revenue stream! TiVO is adding a profitable recurring revenue stream so lowering prices would just offset this. That obviously makes zero business sense.

TiVO is just copying the current business model of Roku a company that was written off only a few years ago. Roku when faced with competition from Amazon, Apple, and Google changed its business model from hardware sales to ads+Video rental platform. TiVo's competition is just as daunting in Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon.

You don't have to like it but at least understand the reasoning.
 

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TDL shepherd
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Fast forwarding through pushed commercials in multiple, but larger, time increments is a world of difference from one-press skipping the entire commercial.
I don't have the pre-roll ads, so I can't test it, nor has anyone explicitly reported the behavior, but my inference was that a single press of any of the listed buttons would have the same effect on the pre-roll ad.
 

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I've had ads from the beginning, and accept them as the cost of free access to the site, knowing that I could eliminate the ads via a paid subscription. Seems like most everyone would be groovy were TiVo doing the same.
Agreed. I'm selling off my existing TiVo equipment, but I had made that decision before I knew about the pre-roll ads (lots of reasons). I could buy back in to the TiVo ecosystem if they fix the issues I am tired of waiting for and at a sane price point.

I have Hulu (with ads) bundled with a Spotify subscription, and I'm totally fine with that. I'm getting a much lower rate by accepting the ads and that is my choice. If TiVo wants to subsidize the cost of their devices with extra advertising before recordings, in the guide, on the home screen, whatever, fine. But that needs to be limited to devices and service plans that reflect that in the pricing. I'd pay Roku money for that--$50 sticks, $100 boxes--maybe $200 if the tuner and hard drive are included--and no ongoing service fees. Buying back in with new TiVo hardware & lifetime service right now would cost around $1,000 and I absolutely will not accept additional advertising for those prices.
 

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TE3 still can not access another TE3 box if the other box is in Standby. A TE3 Mini can not access its host if that host is in Standby. I know, don't use Standby. But that bug has been around a long time.
I use TE3 exclusively. I have a 2-tuner Premiere and a 4-tuner Bolt that are currently in standby. I can access both of them from my Roamio, my 6-tuner Bolt and a Mini. Although it shouldn't matter, all my devices share a MoCA network.
 

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Pre-Roll Ads Opt-Out Update: Opted-out last Sunday with Case Number. Still getting Pre-Roll ads. Auto-skip has no effect. Must manually skip. If TiVo Ted is correct ads should go away by Thurs-Fri. I should meet TiVo Ted's opt-out criteria for tenure, etc., though his statement leaves the possibility TiVo can arbitrarily deny owners opt-out request. I'll keep you posted.

With due respect to TiVo Ted who I greatly admire and thank for being here, I don't share his view that pre-roll ads are fine on his TiVos. I'm not okay with them on mine. I was confused when they began because TiVo didn't provide pre-notice to customers nor were we told how to skip them or how to opt-out. I find it ironic that on TiVo's main website today (Tivo.com) in big bold print at the bottom it states "Dreams come true. No more commercials." They ought to add "except when watching recorded programs".
 

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One of the issues I am concerned about is people who are on data caps.
How much data is it taking to load these ads?
If you go over the cap you have to pay penalties or extra money per so many gigabytes you go over.
Comcast has unlimited data for an extra 50 dollars a month but why should people have to pay another 50 a month just to use a Tivo.
 

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in the other Alabama
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I use TE3 exclusively. I have a 2-tuner Premiere and a 4-tuner Bolt that are currently in standby. I can access both of them from my Roamio, my 6-tuner Bolt and a Mini. Although it shouldn't matter, all my devices share a MoCA network.
Perhaps it's just an Ethernet issue.

From Ted: 20.7.4.rc42
 

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I don't have the pre-roll ads, so I can't test it, nor has anyone explicitly reported the behavior, but my inference was that a single press of any of the listed buttons would have the same effect on the pre-roll ad.
This isn't quite correct. In addition to the several seconds of latency from when you play a recording to when the pre-roll ad begins, if I press any of those buttons it just goes to black screen for 20-30 seconds and the Tivo is totally unresponsive until I eventually get a "recording can't be played" error message and it goes back to live TV. While testing this I also saw the same recording can't be played error occasionally when just hopping from one currently playing recording to another. Probably because it can't get the ad to insert for whatever reason.
 

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In addition to the several seconds of latency from when you play a recording to when the pre-roll ad begins, if I press any of those buttons it just goes to black screen for 20-30 seconds and the Tivo is totally unresponsive until I eventually get a "recording can't be played" error message and it goes back to live TV.
I guess this is why "TiVo" stated here they are continuing to work on the experience... it would appear very little coding has addressed error conditions which from experience would involve many more lines (of code) than the everything goes as desired path.
 

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The Computer Guy!
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One user's experience here: I've been getting these ads on my Bolt for the past week, and have auto-skip enabled and it does NOT auto-skip this pre-roll ad. Once I press to skip the ad, the program begins to play and then auto-skip kicks in to get me to the start of my show.

I called Saturday to get removed from these ads, and will report back when they're gone (or later this week nonetheless if they're still present).
Let us know how that goes. I'm considering doing the same thing. Otherwise I'm seriously considering downgrading to TE3 (even though I like features like auto commercial skip in TE4).
 

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What's the going CPM rate nowadays for preroll?

Did TiVo hire an army of sales reps to sell directly to advertisers in various markets?

Or are they just leveraging a back-fill ad network? (Substantially less revenue there)

how much revenue do we actually think this will bring in? They have less than 1M retail customers as of now. (Not all of which are eligible for ads)

if they're using an ad network I can't see them making a ton of money.

If they hired sales staff, that's a large cost and investment that they'd need to ensure they cover with generated sales.

Is there anything in their recent investor reports to give an idea of their anticipated revenue?
This needs to be corrected as it is not 1 million retail customers but 1 million retail devices connecting to the service, which includes minis. Most retail owners have multiple retail devices so the actual number of retail owners is around 200,000 or less. I think the actual number of retail devices is around 960,000.
On the MSO side they count households so the actual number of devices is a lot higher. The last count I heard for MSO is like 6 million households and that number is from a few years ago. The number of MSO customers is growing and the number of retail customers is dropping so there really is no money in retail.

Since Rovi was Gemstar TVGuide they used to have ads on their TVGOS guides that were embedded in retail guides. There was a add pane on the left side of the guide. The cost of TVGOS (TVGuide on Screen) was included in the cost of the retail devices, and they then decided to add the ads in later to increase revenue to cover the cost of operating the consumer guide side of the business. The MSO side had the IGuide and PassPort Echo UI and they had the small ads in those guides.
Now Rovi bought TiVo so they are now doing the same with the retail side of the business. Hopefully they do not do what they did to us TVGOS users and give a 6 months notice that the service was ending and pull the plug. There was users that were threatening law suits back then but nobody ever done anything about it as the cost was to high to hire lawyers and litigate the case. There was a few that took their Sony DHG dvrs and through them in the lobby of their headquarters so Rovi would have to recycle them. Some users like me wrote corporate letters pleading our case to keep it going but that was no help either. It just ended up as a cost cutting measure to please the shareholders at the end of the day.
 
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One of the issues I am concerned about is people who are on data caps.
How much data is it taking to load these ads?
If you go over the cap you have to pay penalties or extra money per so many gigabytes you go over.
Comcast has unlimited data for an extra 50 dollars a month but why should people have to pay another 50 a month just to use a Tivo.
Well, luckily you can now get Unlimited Data for $25 a month (xFi Gateway + Unlimited data) if you have a Blast Pro speed tier or higher.
 

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Just called support to return my new Bolt. They told me they have a way to prevent ads from showing on my box forever and it will take 72 hours to implement it. Got a case number.
Success! 72 hours later I tried and was still getting pre-roll ads on my Bolt (but not on the mini). Called support with my existing case number. They had me unplug and replug and then force an update. The update took a long time to load (probably 10-15 minutes), but once done, I am no longer seeing ads (or blue ring). Program loads immediately without delay. Running 21.9.2.v4-USC-11-849.
 
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