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Go Pats!
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Question....the ads truly are PRE-roll, right? I.e., they only kick in when you start a program from the beginning, right? It won't happen when you pick up in the middle of a program or resuming after a pause?
 
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Let us all be real, no one is going back to their crappy cable DVR's so good to bellyache, but looks like we are going to be stuck with it for now. I know I am not going back to the buggy, limited space, recording problems, season pass problems of my providers DVR.
I'm not going back to cable, period. My Roamio & four minis were a great solution for OTA for a while but their app platform is a ghost town and I've given up hope that TiVo will ever be a viable one-remote solution with my streaming services all in one place. There were supposed to be apps for Roku & Fire TV by now, still nowhere in sight, and the mobile app and out of home streaming situation is still basically unusable.

Pre-roll ads are just the cherry on top. I'm done. Everything's listed on eBay, and all my TiVo hardware will be gone by the end of the week.

i'm not sure it would be a big deal for me since you can skip them from what I'm reading, they are 15 seconds long and i'm often getting settled when I start a show.
Ah yes, "it's not that bad." Yet. That's the old "boiling a frog" method of adding customer-hostile anti-features to equipment I've already paid quite a lot of money for. No thanks.

I'm also not cool with my TiVo launching some kind of ad-display app before I try to play a recording. I've had my box freeze and crash trying to launch netflix, amazon and hulu enough times to be really wary of them adding any new chores to the Roamio's underpowered SoC. It might just be a 15 second ad, but how long is that blue circle going to spin before and after it plays? The load times for the streaming apps are pretty terrible, so I'm not filled with confidence on that one. And if their stupid ad causes my box to freeze or reboot, I'm liable to rip it out of my entertainment center and smash it to bits. Needless to say, I won't be sticking around to find out.
 

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It was actually done with the 'Summer Sale'. I can't speak well enough any longer to use VOX so the roll back to TE3 as well as remove the 'pre-roll' is important.
So you'll be running TE3, regardless, and it's unlikely that we'll see the pre-roll ads extending to TE3 before your return window closes -- which is just 30 days, not 60, right? If anything, waiting to initialize the box may cross the point where TiVo decides that TE4 BOLTs are no longer allowed to rollback.

'gist: I can't see why your unit is still boxed, if you'll be running TE3, anyway. (I don't need to understand, of course.)
 

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Thank you for the attempt at trying to flesh-out just how far the rollout extends, at present.
"at present" is exactly right. It's only a matter of time until the mobile TiVo apps receive this "feature". I'm actually surprised it didn't start on the apps first since they're "free" downloads.

This is the just the beginning, but for me it's the end.
 

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'gist: I can't see why your unit is still boxed, if you'll be running TE3, anyway. (I don't need to understand, of course.)
That is the 'gist of my questions to TiVo - Since the 'PRE-ROLL' started is the TE4 'lock' already a done deal. In the 'wrapper' might still be conversational. Having lost Xfinity VOD and NOT being able to use VOX maybe there's TiVo considerations! Who knows and yes you don't need to 'understand'!!

***In the 'wrapper' and with a 3 year warranty might increase 'sale-ability'. Who knows! If TiVo just came forward and explained to AISP holders the options 'all would be well'! I ain't bothered either way!
 

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Are you talking about the pre roll or regular ads presented during a recording?

Pre roll you have to push a button to skip the ads.

If you set skipmode to automatic you just start the recording and all ads during the recording are automatically skipped.
Ah, OK. When I said you had to push a button to skip ads in SkipMode, I was referring to regular ads in the recording. I had forgotten that TiVo updated their SkipMode feature to allow for automatic skipping without the need to press the button at the start of each ad break.

So now TiVo lets users opt once into full auto-skipping of ads. They clearly don't seem too afraid of hacking off the powers-that-be. I guess as long as they make such a feature optional on TiVo boxes for pay TV partners, they're not concerned about the impact that ad-skipping on their retail devices might have on their business relationships.
 

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My prediction is that in a couple of months TiVo folks will be saying "It's not that bad. A few extra button pushes wont matter. We can live with it because TiVo is the bestest DVR ever!"
The real anger will build as cable companies move to IPTV for most of the good channels and cable cards become as rare as hen's teeth. The really good thing is that we have choices like never before to control where and how we get our content.
 

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How many times you feel it is necessary to repeat the same hyperbolic vitriol? If you could remain objective and rational, your arguments might carry some weight. As is it, I find you add nothing to the conversation, and I only point this out in the hopes that it might dissuade others from following your overemotional path.
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You hope to dissuade others from thinking about or starting a class action suit. The objective rational is that you solve a problem where it is and speak.
 

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If you look at his TCF profile you can see his last visit was yesterday.
LOL....I read it as maybe Ted actually visited Dan. silly me.
 
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Go Pats!
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Has anyone with TE3 seen ads yet?
 
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My prediction is that in a couple of months TiVo folks will be saying "It's not that bad. A few extra button pushes wont matter. We can live with it because TiVo is the bestest DVR ever!"
The real anger will build as cable companies move to IPTV for most of the good channels and cable cards become as rare as hen's teeth. The really good thing is that we have choices like never before to control where and how we get our content.
I think this fear of cable cards going away is overblown. I could easily see them going IPTV only if/when they offer 4K channels - that requires new hardware anyway so they can make the new hardware use IPTV for those channels. But they can't convert say HBO or ESPN to use IPTV only unless they've upgraded every receiver in the field to be IPTV capable. Going IPTV is basically an all or nothing proposition for HD.

How many cable companies are still on MPEG2, or still have SD duplicates of HD channels? I know Comcast has converted to MPEG4 in some markets, so if ALL of the MPEG4 receivers in those markets are IPTV capable they might be able to consider taking them IPTV only. Is any other cable company as close as they are along that path?

My cable company (Mediacom) still uses MPEG2 and still has SD duplicate channels, so I feel 100% confident they won't go IPTV until long after my Bolt gives up the ghost or I give up my Bolt because Tivo decides to start shoving ads in my face on TE3.
 

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The point is that there is no "existing law" to allow DVRs.
What you mean is that there's no existing *statutory law* passed by Congress that allows DVR usage. There is, however, *case law* that has emerged through court rulings that allows DVR usage. I knew that there was no statute on the books explicitly permitting DVR usage. (It's pretty rare for legislative bodies to pass laws explicitly confirming that a particular act is legal. The presumption is that any act is legal unless and until a law says otherwise.) When I referred to existing law regarding DVR usage, I was talking about the body of case law that developed in the courts when IP owners in the past sued makers of VCRs, DVRs, etc.

Copyright law expressly bans all "retransmission" of cable/satellite/OTA broadcasts, and DVR playback is indisputably such a retransmission under copyright law. Fair use carves out a narrow window which allows such playback for personal use only. So you can do it at home, but a bar can't record a game and play it back later - that's why Directv/etc. won't allow bars/restaurants to have DVRs. They would be seen as accessories to any copyright violations that occurred if they if they did. As far as copyright is concerned, there's no difference between fast forwarding through halftime of a game or a boring section of a movie and fast forwarding through a commercial, so skipping commercials is fine in the context of a personal recording/playback device such as a DVR, VCR or audio cassette deck.
Yes, agreed.

I'm not really up on the fine points to know whether it is a violation of copyright law to skip commercials during recording - that is, don't save them to the hard drive. My guess is that it would be a violation. Just because a couple niche products (apparently) do this does not mean it is legal - it simply may not be worth it for content owners to go after them.
Yes, I agree with what you're saying but I'm not sure why you're off on this specific question of avoiding the recording of ads in the broadcast signal in the first place. (I didn't bring it up -- I referred to the "excision," i.e. surgical removal, of ads from completed recordings.) I don't know of any products, niche or otherwise, that do not record ads to the hard drive. When you say "niche products," I assume you're referring to Plex, Channels Plus, etc., but those products record the entire broadcast, including ads, and then allow the user to turn on a setting that either alters the recorded file to cut out the ads, or to auto-skip over the ads during playback (as TiVo allows).

From the standpoint of content owners, a solution that skips ads during recording is not really different than one that automatically skips during playback, and the latter has been held to be covered by fair use, as that's part of the definition of a personal recording/playback device (i.e. it simply automates the fast forwarding function that all DVRs are capable of) There isn't much point to content owners going after ad skipping during recording, even if they had an airtight case, because the only difference between automated ad skipping during playback and skipping them during recording is saving some hard drive space. The ads aren't getting seen either way, so the content owner would gain nothing if they stopped Plex etc. from skipping ads during recording. Other than maybe the Streisand Effect of making more people aware of it.

Having a playback device present its own ads in the GUI (like the guide or showcase) to the user clearly isn't a violation of copyright - the content owner's content isn't being changed.
Yes, agreed.

Running a pre-roll ad that could be incorrectly interpreted by some as part of the content is a different matter. Going even further and inserting ads in the middle of playback would reinforce that perception, though maybe Tivo could get around it by making it clear somehow that it is an ad coming from your Tivo and is not part of the program. For users who don't understand the difference between an ad placed by NBC during an NBC program and a Tivo ad placed at the start of the playback of an NBC program, automatically skipping the content owner's ads during playback AND running a pre-roll ad is tantamount to replacing the content owner's ads with Tivo's. If that was how the courts viewed it, then Tivo's running of pre-roll ads could easily be viewed as a violation of copyright law.
Yeah, maybe. Although that seems like a pretty weak case to me and one that could be defeated by TiVo, as you say, using an on-screen notification that their ads are their own. Lots of forced streaming ads in apps like Hulu, Tubi, etc. have some kind of count-down notification on screen showing you how far you are through the ad pod (e.g. ad 2 of 3, :37 remaining). They could simply include "Ads from TiVo" in that on-screen graphic and make it clear in the product's initial guided set-up and user terms that "Ads from TiVo" are coming from TiVo's servers and are in no way affiliated with the providers of the content that they appear next to. And as far as the skipping of the original broadcast ads, I'd think TiVo would treat that the same as they do now with SkipMode: make it a user opt-in and, once set, it would automatically happen on all recordings. (Maybe TiVo would, like other DVR services, decide to use AI to set the start and end of each broadcast ad pod for SkipMode purposes as opposed to having human monitors manually mark the skip points.)
 

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They've a 0$ down OTA Bolt offer on the 'main page'. I don't know how long there but maybe 'AD INSERTION' is meant to be a portion of that package. I was told in CHAT the feature could be removed like others have mentioned BUT my Bolt being still in the 'wrapper' I'm trying to do something other than connect and do the ask. I can't use the VOX options so the Bolt I've got was a 'intended video' improvement. Having already lost Xfinity VOD there's little else the Bolt can do for me. Their 'support' case options are unusual in that you can't review a case before commenting further. The 1 thing that L3TV/T-Vision was at least very good with was 'CUSTOMER RELATIONS'! You could open a case, review it, add files/snapshots. It was an actual communications event!!

If in fact the 'AD INSERTION' can be turned off maybe I'd do something different. If my Bolt in the wrapper can still be rolled back to TE3 with ads removed and 'LOCKED' in TE3 then I'm maybe good.

Might be a BOLT CableCARD AISP available soon!
That zero down Bolt is not related to the ads, it's zero down with a higher monthly rate. I have one of the cable card zero down bolts, it's $20 a month vs $15 a month for 2 years.

On a side note, not on demand, but HBO Go now works on Comcast.
 
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