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This, 1000%. I don't have an issue with Amazon, Netflix, YouTube doing this. I have a major problem with Tivo doing this, and for them to compare themselves to any content provider/streamer doing pre-rolls is ridiculous.
My problem with TiVo doing this is that they are, effectively, modifying the recorded program by inserting a preroll ad. Seems like they are violating some copyright and programming rights.

It's stupid because they open themselves up to lawsuits about skipping commercials but inserting their own. Even if they win the suits, they are opening themselves up to legal costs.

But my real problem is that I'm betting this is not going to be quick or seamless. I've seen enough of their blue circles to know it is going to cause problems.
 

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Ugh ads in the guide? That was like my first Comcast DVR ten years ago. No wonder Live Guide is dead, prolly not enough real estate on screen for ads.
well, more accurately, live guide is only dead in te4. ;)
 

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The ads should have been downloaded ahead of time. I certainly hope they arent doing it in realtime.
I don't see much reason why they couldn't do it in realtime. YouTube and Hulu do it. I'd agree that the probably are pre-downloading. All we really need is someone with TE4 who is getting these ads to go into their router and see if their TiVo uses a bunch of bandwidth when they go to start up a show.
 

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I'm no lawyer but in reviewing the EULA posted here http://tivo.pactsafe.io/legal.html#user-agreement there are two paragraphs that indicate we'll have little chance at a class action lawsuit. The first is:

"TiVo reserves the right to discontinue previously offered features or functionality at its sole discretion and without prior notice. TiVo is not liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension, or discontinuance of any feature or component of any TiVo product or service. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you."

I read this and think it is pretty clear that they can do whatever the hell they want with the software. So those of us that love Live Guide - tough titty. Don't like spinning blue circles? You've got a better chance at suing them for causing dizziness looking at them vs. the fact that they added a feature that causes you to look at spinning blue circles.

Next up:

"With an All-In Plan, you receive those TiVo service features that we make generally available to all customers who have activated a TiVo service subscription for that same TiVo product, except as otherwise noted by TiVo. You may incur separate charges for certain third-party content, services or applications; these items are not considered part of the TiVo service. In addition, TiVo reserves the right to subsequently release, and to charge separate amounts for, new features or functionality which are not made generally available to all customers who have activated TiVo service on a particular TiVo product."

It's not difficult to imagine that Tivo could just easily argue that instead of charging us for "new features and functionality" they reverted to ads so that they didn't have to ask us for more money. What are new features and functionality? Dunno but I suppose Hydra, Auto-skip may be examples.

I could not find the old Lifetime EULA or any earlier EULAs. This one is from last year. It might be interesting to review them.
Of course Rovi will defend themselves in this an other ways, like anyone who is trying to hide the truth, but their actions, repeated pattern of behavior fits a narrative that will show and tell the truth in Court in a class action suit in front of a judge. They can say they're a "ham sandwich," but they're going to have to prove it with so much questionable behavior to the contrary.

Once again, the ads inserted while others can be skipped is the broadcast/network lawsuit not ours.

Ours is a class action lawsuit showing that Rovi misrepresented themselves as a tech company to existing customers and future customers by hiding the true nature of the company as being predatory at the time of acquiring TiVo.
 

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So has anyone been able to get these ads disabled for their device?

When I first saw them tonight I thought my Tivo was being weird/slow. I was trying to play a recording and it went to a black screen with a spinning circle for a bit and then I lost all video input apart from some chopped up sound. It wouldn't really respond to any input, or it would respond VERY slowly, and it took a good minute to sort of get back to live TV. I rebooted it later on after it did this again on a different recording, and then after the reboot I noticed it was serving the ad. Well, trying to serve the ad. It took a while to load it and then it was all choppy. I tried another recording and it played ok, but it was the same stupid ad each time for "see something say something" or whatever. Also, trying to skip the ad with any sort of button presses is pointless since the Tivo is so laggy and unresponsive while it's serving the ad that it'll take you longer to try to skip it and recover than to just watch it. I'm also curious what happens if your internet is down and you try to watch a recording. Does it just sit there and spin trying to reach the server?

This is truly awful. As has been said in this thread already, this feature has no business being rolled out to people with lifetime boxes, at the very least.
 

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So has anyone been able to get these ads disabled for their device?

When I first saw them tonight I thought my Tivo was being weird/slow. I was trying to play a recording and it went to a black screen with a spinning circle for a bit and then I lost all video input apart from some chopped up sound. It wouldn't really respond to any input, or it would respond VERY slowly, and it took a good minute to sort of get back to live TV. I rebooted it later on after it did this again on a different recording, and then after the reboot I noticed it was serving the ad. Well, trying to serve the ad. It took a while to load it and then it was all choppy. I tried another recording and it played ok, but it was the same stupid ad each time for "see something say something" or whatever. Also, trying to skip the ad with any sort of button presses is pointless since the Tivo is so laggy and unresponsive while it's serving the ad that it'll take you longer to try to skip it and recover than to just watch it. I'm also curious what happens if your internet is down and you try to watch a recording. Does it just sit there and spin trying to reach the server?

This is truly awful. As has been said in this thread already, this feature has no business being rolled out to people with lifetime boxes, at the very least.
Wow, sounds worse than I could have imagined. I'm very curious if you can use the TiVo app to start playing a recording on the TiVo (instead of the using the TiVo itself) and see if that triggers the pre-roll ad as well? i.e. Go to the virtual remote of the App and find a show and start play from there. Also if you happen to be a kmttg user, attempt to start playback from kmttg My Shows table to see what happens.
 

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Live guide is off no use to us that use a Tivo to record when we are not home. Hydra's grid guide is superior for that, I access more info quicker. You couldn't pay me to go back to TE3 and a live guide.
You do realize the grid guide has ALWAYS been an option, right? It isn't as though using TE3 means you must use the Live Guide.

Also, the app uses the same guide format regardless of whether your Tivo is set to use Live Guide or grid guide...
 

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But my real problem is that I'm betting this is not going to be quick or seamless. I've seen enough of their blue circles to know it is going to cause problems.
To me, this is actually what the the whole thing comes down to. What is the actual experience of having that ad in there. Tivo says they are skippable, but we'll see what that user experience is actually like.

It seems like I am the only person on this thread that pads my recordings. In a best case scenario, now I will have to hit the 30 sec skip button 5 times instead of 4 (I pad by 2 min), or hit the commercial break skip button if that works. All of my recordings already have ads at the beginning, 2 min worth, it's just from the previous program, although sometimes its the previous program itself.

Having 6 tuners and being able to auto pre and post pad a program is one of the great features of a Tivo.

My fear/concern is that this pre-roll ad won't let me queue up 30 sec skips like normal. I'm also suspicious of those BSC blocking the skip presses. I can see lots that could go wrong with integrating a video source from the net with a local video source. Waiting for an ad to download that I'm just going skip would not be optimal.

But if they can make it work like normal skipping (not auto-skip) does mid-program, then it won't actually change much of anything for me. That is until the ad skip feature is turned off, but I'll worry about that then.
 

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The fair-use exception to copyright law covers personal, non-commercial use only.
(Just for completeness and as a general matter, the copyright fair-use exception also applies to commercial use--but that type of use figures into the consideration as to whether fair use should apply. E.g. the use of video performance excerpts in news reports and reviews.)
 

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They are two legal avenues to go against TiVo, but the argument about ads is the path for a corporation like ad sponsors.

But the easiest one is for the long term/short term TiVo customers in a class action suit to prove Rovi did not act in good faith, misrepresented themselves to the customer and is fact a corporate predator and not a tech company.
But as I noted a bunch of pages back, and as again is noted above:
I'm no lawyer but in reviewing the EULA posted here http://tivo.pactsafe.io/legal.html#user-agreement there are two paragraphs that indicate we'll have little chance at a class action lawsuit. The first is:
"TiVo reserves the right to discontinue previously offered features or functionality at its sole discretion and without prior notice. TiVo is not liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension, or discontinuance of any feature or component of any TiVo product or service. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you."
I read this and think it is pretty clear that they can do whatever the hell they want with the software. So those of us that love Live Guide - tough titty. Don't like spinning blue circles? You've got a better chance at suing them for causing dizziness looking at them vs. the fact that they added a feature that causes you to look at spinning blue circles.
and
I haven't read the Terms of Service for a long time, but isn't there a term that says, we (TiVo) can change anything we want at any time for any reason? (But it probably stops short of claiming a right to customers' first-born daughters, lol.)*

* edit, from the TiVo User Agreement: "Features and functionality are subject to change. We reserve the right to determine the timing and content of software updates, which may be automatically downloaded and installed by TiVo products without prior notice to you."
 

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Live guide is off no use to us that use a Tivo to record when we are not home. Hydra's grid guide is superior for that, I access more info quicker. You couldn't pay me to go back to TE3 and a live guide.
My TE3 units record things all the time when I'm not home and I'm using the Live Guide exclusively, and the website and Tivo app function just fine when I'm not at home and they use a modified TE4 style guide, I really fail to see how recording or programming when not at home has anything to do with Live vs Hydra guides.
 
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If I were getting these ads (I'm not), I would try going into my router and schedule (via parental control on my router) the Tivo so it is only allowed to connect to the Internet once a week between the hours of 2 AM and 6 AM. My thinking is that they cannot stream an ad when the Tivo cannot access the Internet.

Has anyone tried this? I don't see how it could cause a problem as long as you give it enough time to download the guide. The only way Tivo could counter this would be to download a lot of ads to your Tivo while it is updating the guide and then insert them into the show. I suspect they would not try this because filling up our hard drives with ads would really get lawyers involved.
 

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To me, this is actually what the the whole thing comes down to. What is the actual experience of having that ad in there. Tivo says they are skippable, but we'll see what that user experience is actually like.

It seems like I am the only person on this thread that pads my recordings. In a best case scenario, now I will have to hit the 30 sec skip button 5 times instead of 4 (I pad by 2 min), or hit the commercial break skip button if that works. All of my recordings already have ads at the beginning, 2 min worth, it's just from the previous program, although sometimes its the previous program itself.

Having 6 tuners and being able to auto pre and post pad a program is one of the great features of a Tivo.

My fear/concern is that this pre-roll ad won't let me queue up 30 sec skips like normal. I'm also suspicious of those BSC blocking the skip presses. I can see lots that could go wrong with integrating a video source from the net with a local video source. Waiting for an ad to download that I'm just going skip would not be optimal.

But if they can make it work like normal skipping (not auto-skip) does mid-program, then it won't actually change much of anything for me. That is until the ad skip feature is turned off, but I'll worry about that then.
Yeah, I mean if they played a short ad before my recording and it was quick and seamless to load (and responsive if you wanted to back out of it), then I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed. But making my Tivo behave like it's in the process of having a stroke while it's trying to load the stupid ad, and then having the entire process of serving the ad take at least twice as long as the ad itself is unacceptable.
 

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I keep on wondering, ok, TiVo, you want to increase revenue, that's understandable and commendable--then do something positive. I don't see pre-roll ads as a real "positive" (although I'm willing to accept them--but then they should be turn-off-able in the box settings).

On the other hand, improved and more meaningful apps and streaming device/technology/content access (as someone else said here, if Roku won't do it for a TiVo box, why doesn't TiVo do it for Roku?), a Mini Wireless Adapter, TiVo apps for streaming devices, a TiVo streaming device, enhanced TiVo remotes (what happened to the Slide Pro remote entirely at this point?), even a TiVo marketplace accessed through TiVo Central (there used to be one, the Showcases), yes, that's positive.
With my legacy Comcast DVR that I used to have, there was an ad at the bottom of the guide... how annoying and a waste of space. With TiVo, no ad there, but then we have the Discovery Bar at the top... along with Pause ads, Delete ads, Folder ads, and TiVo Central ads sometimes showing up. I hate those.

How about offering an ad-free version? I mean completely ad-free. An ad would be something that would generate TiVo revenue, even if it's for placing a TV show up in the Discovery Bar. There is a monetary value to this. What if we, TiVo users, were willing to match that value so we don't see ads anymore? Would it matter if the revenue is coming from current sponsors or TiVo users? This would be optional on top of any monthly, annual, or lifetime subscriptions. Anyone have thoughts on this idea?

I'm basing my comment on "ok, TiVo, you want to increase revenue" mentioned.
 

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I do agree, This scheme is probably a grand mistake. But again, I'm not going to be a an infant kicking and screaming because someone else is making a mistake. What are you really losing, a few seconds of time each time a show starts. Now if they were to start inserting commercials within shows, that's a serious time for me to start considering some action.
The more people who skip the pre-roll ads, the less they're worth. If too many skip them, wouldn't TiVo have incentive to make them unskippable? Or at the very least, force someone to watch five or ten seconds of them before becoming skippable? Commercials have value because people watch them and go out and buy the product.
 
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