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They've already done the math. Clearly, they've calculated that the potential loss of long-time Tivo-customers via attrition vs. the (perceived) upside of creating an ad-based/data mining business model is well worth that risk.
And we all know how well TiVo has done in its past calculations. ;)

edit: I should add (and so not to be seen as too snarky), I'm not opposed to TiVo experimenting with revenue-generation methods, even something like here--it's just, to do so smartly and to not alienate the customer base as to why we use a TiVo box.
 

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I have and will stay on TE3 until Tivo forces it off of my Roamio box so if these ads never hit my box you won't hear me complaining that I'm missing out on this new "feature". I do find it a bit off that one of their biggest selling points is ad skipping and yet here we are with them placing ads into an ad skipping box. I know everyone has been saying the ads are skippable but I'll guess that they won't stay that way and will eventually be forced just like those on Youtube(on a Roku for example). This is the kind of nonsense I would expect from Comcast but not Tivo but here we are.

I just wonder, as others have mentioned, how long before ads turn up elsewhere because if they can make money forcing an ad in one spot they'll see the $$$ and try for even more. Everyone should know that if they can get away with one they'll go for two, etc. I can't imagine them thinking "well, we're making a bit more now with the one and only ad, let's call it a day". Soon enough we'll be watching ads before we can set One Passes or even visiting the Now Playing list if they see a profit can be made and people accept it because it helps Tivo. How much will those who support this new ad format because it helps tolerate before it's too much?

As far as pi-hole I have mine running through it now so for a TE3 box here are my recorded hits over the last 24hrs:

h1.tivoservice.com
i.tivo.com
mm1.tivoservice.com
mm1.tivoservice.com.localdomain
tivo-0.vo.llnwd.net
www.tivo.com

Tivo. TV yOUR way.
Just curious. Do we know yet which domains are ads and which ones are for updates and guide data?
 

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tabasco rules
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They've already done the math. Clearly, they've calculated that the potential loss of long-time Tivo-customers via attrition vs. the (perceived) upside of creating an ad-based/data mining business model is well worth that risk.
And we all know how well TiVo has done in its past calculations. ;)
well, they think they've done the math, but it's difficult to accurately calculate the long-term damage to the brand, not to mention the short-term hit.

tivo claims to be working to double it's subscriber base with their new product offerings in just a few months, so i imagine they're getting this out of the way before new products launch, but i don't think the final tally of their new math will add up the way they've calculated.
 

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I'm getting these pre-roll adverts and don't want them. I just got off the phone with TiVo Technical Support via their customer support line: 877-367-8486. I was nice and simply explained I wanted the advertisements removed each time I played a DVR recorded program. The representative was sympathetic and went off the line for a few minutes to see if this can be done. When she came back I was told this function would be removed from my TiVo Bolt +. She indicated it would take up to 3 business days. These obnoxious adverts should go away NLT Wednesday or Thursday. I was given a Case Number and told I'd receive email confirmation. I will report back success or not.

I suggest anyone with a Bolt who is getting these adverts and doesn't want them to call TiVo and get them stopped. TiVo needs to know if the owner community is for, against, or ambivalent.
 

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well, they think they've done the math, but it's difficult to accurately calculate the long-term damage to the brand, not to mention the short-term hit.

tivo claims to be working to double it's subscriber base with their new product offerings in just a few months, so i imagine they're getting this out of the way before new products launch, but i don't think the final tally of their new math will add up the way they've calculated.
I keep on wondering, ok, TiVo, you want to increase revenue, that's understandable and commendable--then do something positive. I don't see pre-roll ads as a real "positive" (although I'm willing to accept them--but then they should be turn-off-able in the box settings).

On the other hand, improved and more meaningful apps and streaming device/technology/content access (as someone else said here, if Roku won't do it for a TiVo box, why doesn't TiVo do it for Roku?), a Mini Wireless Adapter, TiVo apps for streaming devices, a TiVo streaming device, enhanced TiVo remotes (what happened to the Slide Pro remote entirely at this point?), even a TiVo marketplace accessed through TiVo Central (there used to be one, the Showcases), yes, that's positive.
 

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And we all know how well TiVo has done in its past calculations. ;)

edit: I should add (and so not to be seen as too snarky), I'm not opposed to TiVo experimenting with revenue-generation methods, even something like here--it's just, to do so smartly and to not alienate the customer base as to why we use a TiVo box.
Exactly. Ads will generate some money for Tivo, but Tivo was already a tough sell as they haven't really added that much over the past few years. (I'm not saying I expect them to, but it has given other DVR options a chance to surpass the options available to Tivo, eg the Channels app).

How many ads will Tivo have to sell to make up for the $1200 in lost revenue from me (was planning on an Edge and new Mini later this year when they come out, and will no longer do that). How many ads will Tivo need to sell to make up for the millions of people who have read the negative press already and will no longer consider a Tivo? How many ads will Tivo need to sell to make up for the fact that hundreds of thousands of Tivo customers will no longer recommend Tivo as an option, or rave about how awesome it is?

Furthermore, looking at what they have announced so far (Tivo Streaming Stick) they appear to be AT LEAST 10 years behind in technology (that thing looks like a generation 1 Roku Stick at best). As a Tivo fan, all of that combined with the ads is heartbreaking (and probably one reason why a few high profile Tivo executives have stepped down like TivoMargret). Tivo used to be THE leader in DVR technology, which made the fact that they were an awful patent troll easy to overlook, but in the past few years they haven't really advanced the industry, and like I said others have caught up. Combined with learning recently that Xfinity had to remove features because Tivo sued them (and Tivo seeing this as a valid strategy going forward) and it just makes it really hard to want to continue to support them, let alone recommend them to my friends and family.

I'll probably keep my lifetime Roamio, for now. It's paid for. I'll give it time to iron itself out, but I am also definitely looking at my alternatives. If the box dies, I'm out. If I get annoyed with the ads, I'm out. If the HD Home Run 6 tuner gets good reviews, I am out. For the first time in 20 years, there is no scenario where I will be upgrading my Tivo. Depending on what I decide to do, Tivo may get a few more pennies from me in ad revenue, but they have lost my trust, and my future hardware/service revenue.

And for those who say I should cut them some slack, I don't think you really understand what this means. Tivo already has less than 1 million retail subs, and this will speed up that exit. Once it is no longer profitable to operate, the platform will die. So, defend them if you want, go down with the ship if you want, but just be aware that the loss of customers will likely be the downfall of Retail Tivo, and perhaps ALL of Tivo as a whole. I know people have said this for 20 years, I have been a customer for 20 years. But I truly feel that we are closer to that day than ever before, especially since Tivo can no longer live on "patent settlement" money (since they don't own that business anymore).
 

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I use Lifetime 4 tuner Roamios exclusively with 4 minis, waiting for TiVo to offer free dvr service with Ads on my 2 Bolts sitting in the closet and better not see the ads on my lifetimes.
This would be the smart play, so Tivo won't do it.

Tivo lacks customers. If you discount or remove the service fee, or give the hardware away for free, it removes a barrier of entry for people. If Tivo were going to offer two tiers of service ($5 per month with ads, $15 per month without) then this wouldn't be a problem. Not only is this not their plan, they also plan to look at other places to insert ads (including ad replacement during the show).
 

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Hmm. I'm not a lawyer but I really do wonder, under the current fair use law that allows consumers to record broadcast TV, what would preclude TiVo or any other company -- that operates independently of the broadcasters and cable TV operator -- from completely cutting out the original broadcast ads and replacing them with TiVo's own unskippable ads. (I'm not saying that this is what TiVo is doing or will do, I'm just wondering what aspect of current law might preclude such behavior.) Seems to me that if the consumer didn't like that aspect of TiVo's DVR service, it would be up to him to switch to a different DVR service. And I can't see how the broadcasters or cable companies involved would have any legal leg to stand on. But then, as I say, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the ins and outs of the applicable law.
I'm not a lawyer either, but you bring up some interesting points. I don't believe that replacing ads with Tivo's own ads would constitute fair use because Tivo would be receiving income without compensation to the Intellectual Property owner. But getting to the issue of pre-roll ads, your discussion reminded me of the earworm MLB disclaimer that ran before every baseball game I would listen to or watch while growing up:

"This game is authorized under television rights granted by Major League Baseball solely for the entertainment of our audience and any publication reproduction retransmission or other use of the pictures descriptions and accounts of this game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball is prohibited Any commercial or other use of the program such as by charging admission for its showing is similarly prohibited unless authorized in writing by Major League Baseball."

It strikes me that what Tivo is doing here with its pre-roll is basically charging admission to view IP that it hasn't paid for and has no agreement with the IP owner to retransmit. This could be why Tivo allows skipping of the pre-roll: "We're not charging admission, we're just asking for a donation!" The opt-out (by skipping) nature of the ad could be problematic if Tivo were taken to court on this issue which might require changing to a more opt-in type selection. And Tivo agreeing to a global opt-out (via telephone call that others are reporting) should do the trick.

But then how would Tivo make money on this?

Pure fun speculation on my part since I have no IP experience at all.
 

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"Enable Video Downloads

Use this setting to enable a box to download TV shows, movies, and other video content from the TiVo service over your broadband Internet connection. Specific program offerings will vary from time to time and may not be available to all subscribers. You can turn this setting on or off at any time without charge. Changes to this setting take up to 24 hours to take effect. Your TiVo box must be connected to the Internet via broadband in order to download video."

I wonder if disabling that will prevent those commercials to be on your harddrive, I doubt it will be live streaming the ads as not all have true broadband speeds.
 

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I hate the idea - didn't by TIVO for ads but to avoid ads.
One of my biggest concern is how does this effect tuner usage? Will ads be included at playback time? If they are during recording time then what - how much space will they occupy and for people who have space issues that could cause real problems.
Suing only make lawyers rich.
 

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I bought a lifetime DVR that records and plays back TV signal - not an advertising box. They are altering the nature of the purchase, after the fact. IMO they should offer to buy the box back if I do not agree to it becoming an ad player. If they don't end this now, or offer opt-out, there should be a class action filed.
 
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Look no further than the new CEO they hired
The CEO was hired to prepare the company for restructuring and to be parted out (currently targeted to be two different entities as I recall). Part of that responsibility is to show potential revenue to make the potential buyers think that buying the company will be a good thing. Ad revenue might qualify as a potential revenue stream.
 

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"Enable Video Downloads

Use this setting to enable a box to download TV shows, movies, and other video content from the TiVo service over your broadband Internet connection. Specific program offerings will vary from time to time and may not be available to all subscribers. You can turn this setting on or off at any time without charge. Changes to this setting take up to 24 hours to take effect. Your TiVo box must be connected to the Internet via broadband in order to download video."

I wonder if disabling that will prevent those commercials to be on your harddrive, I doubt it will be live streaming the ads as not all have true broadband speeds.
I'm getting the pre-roll ads. It does have the appearance of live streaming these ads but it may be going to the HD and taking its time to load. I'm getting the same "blue swirl" connecting to server indication before the advert starts as I get when using any live stream app on my TiVo, i.e., Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.. Your suggestion may work. I prefer to contact TiVo and get it turned off as I've done today and obtained a case number. We'll see what happens.
 

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I doubt it will be live streaming the ads as not all have true broadband speeds.
That (not live-streaming, but downloading ads as part of guide data) would be my guess too (but it is only a guess). And then potentially adding/updating the ad snippets at the next guide update interval to have a small set of ads to show. What ad plays would be randomized, and reported back at the next update cycle. One report was the ad quality was poor, so my guess is that the disk space requirement is very limited (but, again, that is a guess).
 

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Hmm. I'm not a lawyer but I really do wonder, under the current fair use law that allows consumers to record broadcast TV, what would preclude TiVo or any other company -- that operates independently of the broadcasters and cable TV operator -- from completely cutting out the original broadcast ads and replacing them with TiVo's own unskippable ads. (I'm not saying that this is what TiVo is doing or will do, I'm just wondering what aspect of current law might preclude such behavior.)
There is no "fair use law". Fair use is a particular type of exception to copyright law for specific limited circumstances, and home recording for personal use has been deemed one such exception.

A business removing ads and replacing them with its own for profit seems very unlikely to be considered a fair use exception to copyright law. I hope Tivo gets crucified by the lawyers if they pursue this braindead strategy.
 

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They've already done the math. Clearly, they've calculated that the potential loss of long-time Tivo-customers via attrition vs. the (perceived) upside of creating an ad-based/data mining business model is well worth that risk.
I wonder why they secretly rolled this out instead of sending out an email to subscribers letting them know this is coming?
 

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I just called to voice my displeasure, the agent at first try to explain its a new feature. I told him I didn't agree to anything to have these ads, please remove them. He immediately opened a ticket, gave me the number.

Which got me thinking.. old ToS may not have a provision in there for them to roll ads on you.. but I'm going to guess any new ToS would... So if you're under the old ToS possibly they have to remove it if you request it. Purely hypothetical.. I'm not about to sit and compare pages of legal ToS; but if anyone activates a new box and gets denied removing ads, well that could be a tell tale sign..
 
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