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Let us all be real, no one is going back to their crappy cable DVR's so good to bellyache, but looks like we are going to be stuck with it for now. I know I am not going back to the buggy, limited space, recording problems, season pass problems of my providers DVR.

I guess get used to pressing skip or FF when starting a recording now.
 

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I would image TiVo has to be more worried about lawsuits from the networks and cable channels. If I owned or managed a network, and saw a service that let people watch my shows, skip my ads, but then made money off selling other adds on my content I smell television and cable lawyers getting excited about their billing hours on that.
As long as they treat all ads equally, I wouldn't think it would be a problem. But if they give their own ads preference by allowing other ads to be autoskipped but their own ads must be skipped manually, that could raise issues.
 

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I'm just hoping TiVo at some point does communicate to their customers (other than via press comments) as to what is actually happening, to what boxes, etc. If, as existing TE4 user, I can call or otherwise opt-out, I will keep TE4 in place.

If not, and TE3 will be exempt, I will (despite the pain) downconvert my new Bolt and Mini Vox to TE3, especially as when I prepped the wife and family to expect ads they spoke up and told me how much they hate TE4.

I'm personally ambivalent about TE4...the only real "feature" I would miss would be the Vox remote's voice functionality. I'm assuming apps would remain a bit snappier than my Roamio (still on TE3) just by virtue of faster hardware.

Edit to add: I have yet to see the ads in place on my units. I guess I'm saying if they are annoying, and if "downgrading" to TE3 is still an option, this gives me the impetus to downgrade.
 

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I'm just hoping TiVo at some point does communicate to their customers (other than via press comments) as to what is actually happening, to what boxes, etc ...
I don't envy Ted right now. I imagine he's been dreading this day, knowing full well the s*** was about to hit the fan. :D
 

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Let us all be real, no one is going back to their crappy cable DVR's
Their DVR's what?

I stick with Comcast because of my TiVo, I stick with my TiVo because of TE3. Push me to Hydra? I'm out. Start inserting Ads? I'm out. If my TIVo dies tomorrow, and cannot easily be fixed, I'm out.

No way I'm investing any more $ in TiVo with the specter of forced TE4 and ads hanging over them.
 

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I think many have wondered for years why they haven't done things like license or create their own premium VOD service, put ads on those VODs, and get more apps to share in the subscription revenue. Not to mention the various product ideas that have come and gone, or take way too long to come out that they're irrelevant before they launch (wireless mini adapter).

In other words, more products and services we might actually want that would make us customers more frequently than only once every couple years when we buy a new box.

They've been so focused on their B2B and analytics that they've been absolute crap at monetizing us correctly. Instead of genuinely innovating their way out of their revenue problem, they've made up new ways to whore out our data and eyeballs and make US the product instead... and we get to pay for that privilege too.

Hydra's only going to get worse from here. Pre-rolls, guide ads, pause ads, home screen ads. You're going to feel like you're visiting a virus-ridden song lyrics website.
 

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Doesn’t TiVo have a patent for replacing ads in recordings? (Sort of a reverse skip mode where it plays TiVo ads instead of those recorded with the program)
 

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Hydra's only going to get worse from here. Pre-rolls, guide ads, pause ads, home screen ads. You're going to feel like you're visiting a virus-ridden song lyrics website.
It's also slow as molasses compared to TE3. Painful. They way over did the whole tile/picture thing so I often sit there waiting for images to load on several menus. The pre-roll ads, guide ads, pause ads, etc. all make the experience slower and slower. Then there are user-clicks - we need more and more of them to do basic stuff like deleting a show. In TE3, if I see a recorded show in My Shows that I want to delete, I hit the Clear button and its gone. TE4 requires another 2 clicks to do the same thing.
 

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I am wondering what these advertisers will think if everyone can either opt out of having these shown or can skip them.
I wonder if Tivo told them to pay us money to show your ads but all of are users may never see them.
Seems to me they may start to think they are wasting their money if users will not be forced to see their ads.
 

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It's also slow as molasses compared to TE3. Painful. They way over did the whole tile/picture thing so I often sit there waiting for images to load on several menus. The pre-roll ads, guide ads, pause ads, etc. all make the experience slower and slower. Then there are user-clicks - we need more and more of them to do basic stuff like deleting a show. In TE3, if I see a recorded show in My Shows that I want to delete, I hit the Clear button and its gone. TE4 requires another 2 clicks to do the same thing.
That's the upgrade strategy. Buy an Edge to get through our ads and questionable design choices faster than ever before! :p
 

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I am wondering what these advertisers will think if everyone can either opt out of having these shown or can skip them.
I wonder if Tivo told them to pay us money to show your ads but all of are users may never see them.
Seems to me they may start to think they are wasting their money if users will not be forced to see their ads.
There's most likely a guaranteed minimum number of views, with "views" being defined in the contract, and they'll just keep running til it's hit. Usually how something like that works.
 

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Look no further than the new CEO they hired as proof that they are hell bent on making this an advertising and data mining (sell your data) play.
CEO position has been a revolving door of incompetence since Rovi bought TiVo. When that kind of constant revolving happens it points directly to the incompetence of TiVo' Board members. Someone needs to investigate TiVo's Board members for conflicts of interest and if found immediately remove them form the Board. Also, look for non quorum voting, absenteeism, proxy voting, remote voting over the phone or internet. Everything now points to the TiVo Board members not their sock puppet CEO hires. The TiVo Board must be personally name in any forthcoming class action suits. Rovi has demonstrated it is practicing predator capitalism from the beginning of their takeover and must be held accountable for corporate raiding and racketeering.
 

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As long as they treat all ads equally, I wouldn't think it would be a problem. But if they give their own ads preference by allowing other ads to be autoskipped but their own ads must be skipped manually, that could raise issues.
Hmm. I'm not a lawyer but I really do wonder, under the current fair use law that allows consumers to record broadcast TV, what would preclude TiVo or any other company -- that operates independently of the broadcasters and cable TV operator -- from completely cutting out the original broadcast ads and replacing them with TiVo's own unskippable ads. (I'm not saying that this is what TiVo is doing or will do, I'm just wondering what aspect of current law might preclude such behavior.) Seems to me that if the consumer didn't like that aspect of TiVo's DVR service, it would be up to him to switch to a different DVR service. And I can't see how the broadcasters or cable companies involved would have any legal leg to stand on. But then, as I say, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the ins and outs of the applicable law.
 

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I have and will stay on TE3 until Tivo forces it off of my Roamio box so if these ads never hit my box you won't hear me complaining that I'm missing out on this new "feature". I do find it a bit off that one of their biggest selling points is ad skipping and yet here we are with them placing ads into an ad skipping box. I know everyone has been saying the ads are skippable but I'll guess that they won't stay that way and will eventually be forced just like those on Youtube(on a Roku for example). This is the kind of nonsense I would expect from Comcast but not Tivo but here we are.

I just wonder, as others have mentioned, how long before ads turn up elsewhere because if they can make money forcing an ad in one spot they'll see the $$$ and try for even more. Everyone should know that if they can get away with one they'll go for two, etc. I can't imagine them thinking "well, we're making a bit more now with the one and only ad, let's call it a day". Soon enough we'll be watching ads before we can set One Passes or even visiting the Now Playing list if they see a profit can be made and people accept it because it helps Tivo. How much will those who support this new ad format because it helps tolerate before it's too much?

As far as pi-hole I have mine running through it now so for a TE3 box here are my recorded hits over the last 24hrs:

h1.tivoservice.com
i.tivo.com
mm1.tivoservice.com
mm1.tivoservice.com.localdomain
tivo-0.vo.llnwd.net
www.tivo.com

Tivo. TV yOUR way.
 

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I just wonder, as others have mentioned, how long before ads turn up elsewhere because if they can make money forcing an ad in one spot they'll see the $$$ and try for even more. Everyone should know that if they can get away with one they'll go for two, etc. I can't imagine them thinking "well, we're making a bit more now with the one and only ad, let's call it a day". Soon enough we'll be watching ads before we can set One Passes or even visiting the Now Playing list if they see a profit can be made and people accept it because it helps Tivo. How much will those who support this new ad format because it helps tolerate before it's too much?
Well, FWIW, a current TiVo beta tester this week told me that he/she is now seeing ads placed in the program guide grid.

As far as the inserted video ads, my guess is that TiVo developed that platform mainly for larger purposes than what we're currently seeing, with just one pre-recording ad being streamed. I'd say it's mainly for inserting (unskippable) ads into their free video content in the forthcoming TiVo+ app.

Beyond that, maybe TiVo will deploy multiple ads before or during DVR recordings as part of a cheaper (or even free) tier of DVR service.

I definitely think -- based on the feedback in this thread so far -- that TiVo will realize that they're going to have to be careful about the degree to which they deploy ads on their current full-price DVR service because folks will cancel. (Although who knows what percentage of their current retail user base is on lifetime service, in which case TiVo already has their money and there's really nothing they can do.)
 

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(Although who knows what percentage of their current retail user base is on lifetime service, in which case TiVo already has their money and there's really nothing they can do.)
Tivo may be underestimating the power of word-of-mouth. Many people are not technically-oriented but know others who are. They turn to those people for help with their equipment and for buying recommendations. I've highly-recommended Tivo in the past, but with the introduction of these ads I'd now recommend people avoid Tivo. That's due to both the ads themselves and the attitude Tivo is showing by adding them. The thread on alternatives makes it clear there are many alternatives now.
 

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I don't envy Ted right now. I imagine he's been dreading this day, knowing full well the s*** was about to hit the fan. :D
the cynic in me is now wondering if the only reason skip mode was added to premiers was so tivo could eventually enable skipping of pre-roll ads...
 

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Well, we could simply not buy new hardware and not pay to transfer lifetime to a new box.
They've already done the math. Clearly, they've calculated that the potential loss of long-time Tivo-customers via attrition vs. the (perceived) upside of creating an ad-based/data mining business model is well worth that risk.
 
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