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Well here is what I think. Almost any corporation will do anything they can to get more money. Especially if they have a product where there is not a good alternative. Tivo no different. As for ads, you know Tivo has a generous return/replacement policy for boxes that go "bad". Wondered why they do it, have to be losing a lot on hardware/shipping. So I am thinking they must make a lot, even the majority of profit on the ads and selling your history?..........................

Supposedly they will be eliminating roll backs to TE3 soon. And the new Edge will not be able to use TE3 at all. All this going on including these pre-roll ads, going to cause a LOT of problems with current subscribers. But long run anyone buying a Tivo for the first time will know nothing different. All they will know is TE4 and these new ads. So in the long run that is what we can expect I guess, whatever makes Tivo the most money. Perhaps they do have a way to shut down these ads for current subscribers, the 72 hour thing. But I think in the long run it will be here to stay as all new customers will know nothing different. Goodbye to DVRs as we know them, the cable card thing and possibly ATSC 3 bad enough, now ADS before playing a recording............................
 

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My suggestions:

1. Call Tivo and see if they really will remove the ads for your device, and see if it is done permanently.

2. If you only have one Tivo roll it back to TE3 before that becomes impossible. You will lose your recordings. Hopefully they don't add the "ads" to TE3 as they don't do much with TE3 anymore.

3. If you have 2 or more Tivos and want to keep the one on TE4 in spite of the ads put your other Tivo or Tivos on TE3 and either stream or copy the recordings from the TE4 "ad machine" to the TE3 device/devices.

I'm guessing they are "beta testing" the ads with current users. I'll bet the Edge will be released AFTER the ad thing is fully tested/becomes permanent. I doubt they want to sell an Edge to a new user without ads, then add them a short time after purchase.

I have quite a few Tivos, only one on TE4. Because I was testing TE4 and external drives. I really should roll it back to TE3 while I still can, only issue is I have about 2TB recordings on it. Will have to weigh losing the recordings vs being stuck with TE4 forever AND having to put up with ads, I might have been able to live with the TE4 since I have other Tivos with TE3 but this ad thing is just plain terrible.................................. And no, I will not be buying any new Tivos with TE4 mandatory, ads and phasing out of cable cards, while apps are important to some people for me secondary by far, I want a DVR, digital video RECORDER, not an $800 app machine.
 

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I am not getting the ads yet myself, if/when I do I will test if I can stream shows from my TE3 devices through the TE4 Bolt without getting the ads. Terrible if not as the only reason I have a Bolt is to stream shows from the TE3 Roamios to get the 4K upconversion. I think I will put a fresh drive in one of my TE3 Roamios and start transferring shows from the Bolt, nice thing about Roamio is I can keep the drive currently in there intact, can have two (or more) drives, all with different recordings and swap them anytime ;)
 

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I decided to prepare for the possible taking away of reversion to TE3 and also these new ads. As I mentioned I only have one Tivo on TE4, a Bolt I am using to test TE4 and external 3.5 drives. All my other Tivos are on TE3 (other than S2,S3 of course.) I took a 2 tuner Premiere and put in a fresh 3TB drive. Am going to use Tivo online to transfer recordings from the Bolt to the Premiere (I think using Tivo online you can transfer entire folders, doing direct one show at a time?). Then will most likely revert the Bolt to TE3. Then transfer the shows back to the Bolt. Transferring between Tivos directly better than to computer first then back as that method loses information, channel info for one. Since I have about 2TB on the Bolt it will take awhile to transfer, especially to a Premiere but should work.

My only concern is I would kind of like to keep the Bolt on TE4 for awhile longer. To see if I get the "ads" and if so what I think of them. BUT since they are going to make reversion to TE3 impossible I don't want to miss the window. I would HOPE there would be some notification of when they are going to do it. Not just one day it's done, no warning, "you missed it, too late, welcome to permanent TE4".
 

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This is bad enough for those with one Tivo. I myself have 6. Only one on TE4 (and I'm thinking of rolling that back). If they extend it to TE3 would not be good for me unless they can do a blanket roll back for my account, all the devices. One other thing, since the ads are most likely a streaming thing they would be using internet. Probably not affect most users but I have DSL and am capped at 150GB monthly. Doing no streaming I usually use 30-60GB a month, Tivos and computers. If they start using internet to stream ads have no idea how much that would use, the prices if I go over 150GB is per GB or per 10GB and it is a LOT. There is no plan over 150GB, anything over is billed by how much you go over.
 

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. Am going to use Tivo online to transfer recordings from the Bolt to the Premiere (I think using Tivo online you can transfer entire folders, doing direct one show at a time?).
Sadly Tivo online does not work for my transfers. For one it's either individual shows or "all", no folders. I have about 2TB and 1600 shows to transfer, most in folders, some over 200 shows in a folder. I tried the "all", SAYS it has started but it never works, does not transfer anything nor does it go into the to do list. Most I was able to do with Tivo online was like 10 individual at one time. So might as well just do Tivo to Tivo from the Tivos, whew, 1600 shows individually, could take weeks.
 

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Well Tivo Ted says no ads for TE3. Which pretty much makes up my mind about my "testing TE4 Bolt", pretty sure I will revert while I still can. Hey, a TE3 machine could be valuable in the future. I was going to keep TE3 as long as possible on all my Roamios for sure, now with the ad thing I think the Bolt also. You can always "upgrade" to TE4 (without losing recordings to boot) but if it becomes impossible to roll back to TE3 then the TE3 boxes could be valuable in the future, especially to avoid the ads................... Can you see ebay, "Tivo Bolt/Roamio with lifetime AND TE3 with no ads", only $1500? TE3 could be an "investment" ;) Only about 1450 shows left to transfer from the Bolt (out of 1600+), I THINK I will do some pruning though since a "transfer all" will not work with Tivo online. Am not planning on selling any of MY Tivos (unless I move somewhere they can't be used) but I think having them all on TE3 a good idea, especially for me since I use Tivo to record and watch TV shows, that's pretty much it.
 

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Hit MENU then APPS. If one of the apps is "Get New Experience" with a TIVO icon, you have TE3.
Hmm, well since they have Premieres they HAVE to be on TE3 correct? Since a Premiere cannot run TE4? So they would not see the "Get New Experience" app since a Premiere cannot run it?

Your advice good for someone checking a Roamio or Bolt though.
 

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So it sounds like they may have downgraded you to a prior version of the software that does not support ads. My question is what is going to happen when they release the next software update to everyone. Is that going to start the cycle with the ads all over again?
That is a very good question. If getting rid of the ads, FOR NOW, keeps someone from rolling back to TE3 then if the ads "come back" later with a software update TE4 may be locked in at that time, cannot revert to TE3. I'd say the SAFEST thing to do is revert to TE3 now and see how things develop over time, monitor the groups here.
 

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No, it's a server side setting associated with each TiVo in your account, not tied to specific software version. TiVo has a bunch of such settings completely under their control now, including for example ability to toggle on/off commercial skip capability. That's why it requires you to call in and provide your TiVo TSN # to get it changed. If they really wanted to they could add a toggle once you login to their web page, but obviously for this particular setting they don't want to make it that easy to disable.
Ah, that is good to know. Still would scare me that they could turn the ads back on at any time. And if TE4 is locked by then in nothing you could do about it. I wonder if the privacy/ads settings on your Tivo account could affect these pre-rolls. You can "opt out" one setting, limit ad tracking on another and reset your advertising ID on another.
 

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You know I still have one question about what's going on. And that is, is it ACTUALLY CONFIRMED that Tivo will be eliminating roll backs to TE3? Is that in the news somewhere, or been confirmed by Tivo Ted? Even with the ads I'd keep TE4 on the Bolt since I am using it to test external 3.5 PMR drives. Plus I like monitoring how it evolves (or devolves). And I would not mind seeing how the ads would affect me, I could always opt out. But I DON'T want to get stuck with TE4 forever, I still prefer TE3, at least for now. So is it FOR SURE confirmed Tivo will be eliminating roll backs to TE3? If so where is it confirmed and is there any possible time frame given?
 

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I'm not sure where you guys heard this, but to my knowledge we have no plans to block downgrades from TE4 to TE3. To be clear, this is only on boxes that are capable of supporting TE3. For instance, the upcoming TiVo EDGE will only support TE4 and beyond. It will never be able to be downgraded to TE3.
That is good news, I guess it was just a rumor. Since I can roll back to TE3 anytime I will continue my "test" of TE4 on my Bolt, thanks :) Oh, you do say "to your knowledge", if that changes please post BEFORE they would do it.
 

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For me a Tivo is a DVR. I use it to record and watch TV shows/movies. Anything else, features, apps, streaming is a bonus. I am not getting the ads yet but for me they will most likely be terrible. And I wonder being on very slow DSL how long they will take to load.............

But Tivo is probably in trouble. Thinking of the DVR part of the Tivo (which for me is what a Tivo IS), between the phasing out of cable cards and possible ATSC 3 the DVR part is becoming obsolete. So they are probably trying to figure out how to survive. Corporations are in it for the money, of course. But there is some difference between trying to survive and r*ping customers for every penny like the cable cos and many other companies. IMO at least. So will see what happens here.

Tivo actually has a billion dollar market cap. Though there are a lot of members here at TC I'm guessing the majority of their customers are not TC members. Allowing current customers to stop the ads is good. But going forward new customers will know nothing else, just TE4 and ads. They are probably counting on that. They want to keep TC members happy I think. And other non TC members who start getting ads and either call Tivo or start researching the net. But long run they want to try to stay in business, doing whatever it takes to survive. Will lose some customers, others will put up with it, counting a lot on new customers who will know nothing different. Will see how it develops.......................
 

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Well I was willing to give it a try. On my TE4 Bolt. Just got the ad "feature". Well kind of. I'm on DSL. Went to play a show. Blue spinning circle. But it did not go away. Just kept going and going. Finally hit the Tivo button. Went back to menu but there was a delay before it got there. Tried playing another show. Black screen. Tivo button. Different show, blue spinning circle that does not end. Decided to try a reboot. It rebooted, BUT then nothing but black screen, says "no signal". When I use remote the yellow light flashes on the Tivo but nothing happens, no signal. So I unplug it and plug it back in. Boots up, I get a picture. So I try playing a show. Same infinite spinning circle (well it's been going about 15 minutes now). I tried with an open mind, this is what I got, never even got to an ad. Will call tomorrow to "opt out" but I think I'm going to roll back to TE3 regardless, glad I've been transferring my recordings to another Tivo. Not sure what is going on, my DSL is slooooow of course but it looks like it will not work at all with DSL, assuming that is the problem. Anyone else using DSL? I am on direct ethernet by the way, no Wifi.
 

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1/2 hour, still spinning. Hit Tivo button, tried different shows, either spinning circles or black screens. Have not even seen an ad yet............................. If they put this on TE3 might as well toss my Tivos in the trash, don't think I would even sell them, just sticking someone else with this cr*p.
 

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I would expect that anybody calling in to complain when they eventually are afflicted will be allowed to opt out. It sounds like they are doing this on an account level, not box related.
You know that is very interesting. If it is at an account level not box related then you could opt out. But if you sell/transfer the box to someone else they might not be able to opt out when they transfer to their account. If that is true forget about selling/transferring any TE4 Tivos, whomever ends up with them might be stuck with pre-rolls. Which would not make for happy campers, as in returns etc etc.
 

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That's not how TCF works. However, you can be sure that the "class action lawsuit" mantra will spread to many other threads. Is that close enough?
I notice this has been discussed but will throw in my two cents. Class action lawsuits a waste, at least for the consumer. The lawyers will make a mint but the consumer gets next to nothing, in most cases. A stock type class action, I know someone who lost about 10K. I think they got $10 or so from the suit (for sure under $100). Plus if you want the company to stay in business (ie you still use their products or own the stock or whatever) all you do is hurt yourself (and again make some lawyers a fortune).
 

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How did you jump to that conclusion?

If it's account level, anyone could opt out, regardless of box.

If you sell a device, it's no longer associated with your account, would then get ads, until the new owner opted out.

There's nothing to suggest a device sold to a secondary user would prohibit opting out.
That's not what I've been reading, supposedly the ability to "opt out" depends on your account, how long you've been a customer, type of service you have (lifetime, monthly, promo, whatever). Until Tivo comes out and states "ANYONE CAN OPT OUT AT ANY TIME" I have to figure they are making choices on who can and who cannot opt out, for now probably most, in the future maybe not so. They want the ads, letting some "opt out" for now does not mean they will in the future, probably not. Especially new customers who know nothing else. Maybe old customers can have a yearly get together, talk about "the good old days" of Tivo, live guide, transfers, NO PRE-ROLL ADS ;)
 
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