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· Oppo Beta Group
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why wont TiVo implement apps to stream shows from TiVos?
I have TiVo minis and can’t imagine that these really make them money.

The iPad apps allows streaming but the ATV4K, Roku, etc. do not have native apps.
Clearly, folks would like to have an real streamer around the house, not a TiVo mini and separate streaming device.

Cable subscriptions are waning and the and with it the value of TiVo boxes.
A TiVo app would only increase the utility of a centralized TiVo DVR and you could charge for it too.

- Rich
 

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Why wont TiVo implement apps to stream shows from TiVos?
I do recall, back when TiVo was actually still direct consumer sales focused company, that they had talked about the plan for streamer apps (the demo: TiVo To Bring Live Television and DVR Recordings to Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV ). That was a long time ago. I am pretty sure the bottom line answer today is money. The cost of engineering/development/support of those apps is both an initial and ongoing cost as each time Amazon/Apple/Google/Roku updates their streamers the developers may need to revise/update those apps. Such streaming apps could be used to sell new DVRs in the consumer market, which was almost certainly why TiVo was initially going down that path, but the consumer DVR market is now mostly dead to TiVo so development at this point would mostly be just expense unless one can commit to (not just allude to the possibility of) tens of thousands of licenses (and if you can make that monetary commitment I would recommend you contact TiVo corporate and talk about such an arrangement).
 

· Oppo Beta Group
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I do recall, back when TiVo was actually still direct consumer sales focused company, that they had talked about the plan for streamer apps (the demo: TiVo To Bring Live Television and DVR Recordings to Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV ). That was a long time ago. I am pretty sure the bottom line answer today is money. The cost of engineering/development/support of those apps is both an initial and ongoing cost as each time Amazon/Apple/Google/Roku updates their streamers the developers may need to revise/update those apps. Such streaming apps could be used to sell new DVRs in the consumer market, which was almost certainly why TiVo was initially going down that path, but the consumer DVR market is now mostly dead to TiVo so development at this point would mostly be just expense unless one can commit to (not just allude to the possibility of) tens of thousands of licenses (and if you can make that monetary commitment I would recommend you contact TiVo corporate and talk about such an arrangement).
They maintain an app for the iPad so it cannot be completely cost related. The TiVo Stream is a very weird offering. They could have stuck their toe in the water on their own platform.

I suspect the Set-Top box resellers oppose opening the platform.
They could also partner with apps that already play HD Video.

Apparently, they'd rather go quietly into the night.

I watch news and football on the TiVo, that's it. All the rest is streaming.

- Rich
 

· Cranky old novice
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It took you this long to achieve CD re TiVo? :)

TiVo’s demise started with Digital Cable, requiring CableCARD and Tuning Adapters, putting users at the mercy of poor support by cable TV operators. It’s been a long slow death though.
 

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There was a FireTV app a few years ago, but it was definitely a beta product.

TiVo just has no interest in such an app.
It's not just "no interest" it's that they could not find a way to properly monetize it, the reason the ipad app exists is most likely that it shares 90% of its code with the iphone app.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's not just "no interest" it's that they could not find a way to properly monetize it, the reason the ipad app exists is most likely that it shares 90% of its code with the iphone app.
You can charge for apps...

Clearly, TiVo knows that multiple tuners and TiVo mini endpoints make sense.
Why would a customer want two small devices for their TV.
One device that serves their TiVo and apps, it really is a no brainer.

If TiVo had apps, then their current offering as the TVOS would be enhanced.

- Rich
 

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You can charge for apps...
Sure you can. but that doesn't mean they can do it in a way that properly covers the development and maintenance costs for the app.
This would also assume they have any developers on staff, and that is also an area they are lacking in.
 

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They maintain an app for the iPad so it cannot be completely cost related.
The iPad app predated streamers and TiVo's aborted alternative streamer device app plan. At this point, the only DVR customers TiVo prioritizes are their direct operator customers, and the operators customers needs. The operators mostly have not cared about alternative streamers (they just rent another box to the customer).

btw, in the case you have not been following the operator side of TiVo, TiVo offers an Android TV based version of their DVR (which also means apps can be available). But that device cannot be sold direct to consumers due to licensing.

It should be remembered that in 2020, in one of the statements from a TiVo rep was about moving the needle on the TiVo business, which was about money, and the lack of belief by the company that such streamer device apps would help the business:
“If we really believe the streaming market is where it’s at, we need to double down on that and not get distracted by a bunch of things that other people want, but aren’t really going to move the needle.”
And, at the same time, there was a statement about the development of (in that case the Apple TV and Roku, or Android TV devices without the required codecs) about that the TiVo itself was not capable of transcoding the content to a high quality format that would produce acceptable quality on streaming devices (you don't notice the down-res on an iPad, but you likely would on a FHD TV). That would have required something like a "TiVo Stream 2" transcoder to be developed and released (certainly within the TiVo engineers capabilities, but no business case (moving the needle) for it).
 

· Oppo Beta Group
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The iPad app predated streamers and TiVo's aborted alternative streamer device app plan. At this point, the only DVR customers TiVo prioritizes are their direct operator customers, and the operators customers needs. The operators mostly have not cared about alternative streamers (they just rent another box to the customer).

btw, in the case you have not been following the operator side of TiVo, TiVo offers an Android TV based version of their DVR (which also means apps can be available). But that device cannot be sold direct to consumers due to licensing.

It should be remembered that in 2020, in one of the statements from a TiVo rep was about moving the needle on the TiVo business, which was about money, and the lack of belief by the company that such streamer device apps would help the business:


And, at the same time, there was a statement about the development of (in that case the Apple TV and Roku, or Android TV devices without the required codecs) about that the TiVo itself was not capable of transcoding the content to a high quality format that would produce acceptable quality on streaming devices (you don't notice the down-res on an iPad, but you likely would on a FHD TV). That would have required something like a "TiVo Stream 2" transcoder to be developed and released (certainly within the TiVo engineers capabilities, but no business case (moving the needle) for it).
I see the "logic" but there would be no TiVo without the direct customer base.
They made no plans to place the TiVo as streamer ready.

A direct operation, TV OS or cable box also benefits by integration with streamers for the same reason the TiVo customers benefit. They are playing in this space, but playing to lose.

I want to stay, I'd even upgrade to a box that was streamer app compatible.
They don't see that as aligning with their interests. That's fine.

Once I find a reasonably priced DVR based service for sports and news, that will be the end for me.

Since I buy high-end TVs, I won't be running across TiVo OS devices either.

- Rich
 

· Oppo Beta Group
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
To quote the great RichB, "Cable subscriptions are waning."
Yes, but TiVo continue to sell TiVo Edge and TiVo Minis.
Apparently, to justify TiVo OS future.

If this is correct, then making TiVo DVRs that be a hub for streamers enhances the value of the TV OS.

Of course, if they fired all the developers, then the company exists in managed decline to pay executive salaries while they look for a new gig.

- Rich
 

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I see the "logic" but there would be no TiVo without the direct customer base.
They are not expending any effort on keeping that base, the retail side is currently running on autopilot, there will not be improvements, there will most likely not be new consumer models, retail is not in their plans, should something big happen they will just close up shop.

The writing has been on the walls for years, retail is not something they care about.
 

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.... then the company exists in managed decline to pay executive salaries while they look for a new gig.
TiVo has different parts, but the value of the company is now more in the (managed) operator space, and IP licensing (both the STB and guide parts of the combined company now called TiVo still have a number of active patents that make them money). The consumer side will continue to see revenue from subscriptions (and TiVo will certainly take that money), but that market has been in decline for years. Cord shaving has only accelerated the decline on the consumer side.
 

· Cranky old novice
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Some people are still in the first stage of their TiVo grief....
The great days of TiVo were the first few years, starting circa 1999. Cable TV was analog and TiVo’s worked with all cable signals and didn’t depend on cooperation from the cable co at all, and didn’t require messing with tapes. The term “TiVo” became popular, meaning recording TV. Those are the days to grieve for. I was late to the revolution, joining in 2006. By 2009 I went digital with an HD model and things went downhill from there, constantly fighting TA problems with lame support from TWC/Spectrum. After ten years I cut cable TV, went to YouTube TV and happily said goodbye to the TA. Spectrum’s sleazy practices about subscription costs helped push me off.
 

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This is where TiVo lost the plot. They could have the same thing as Channels but they choose the wrong path.
But I think the TV Everywhere protocol that Channels DVR relies on to record from streaming apps is still in BETA mode. Not sure if I would invest heavily in this distributed architecture. They can pull the rug out from under TV Everywhere at a moments notice. Then the trick play functionality isn't going to be a good as Tivo, if that's important to you.

Maybe if there was a process to record with Channels DVR and then have the shows automatically transfer to a Tivo with compatible meta data, that would be a great solution.
 

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There was a FireTV app a few years ago, but it was definitely a beta product.

TiVo just has no interest in such an app.
There was no warning when the app stopped working. Tivo just let the certificate expire. Amazon had just released their first generation of smart TVs with the Fire TV OS. Customers would have been able to buy the Amazon smart TVs and use the Tivo app to stream from the Tivo without buying a Mini. Tivo's business model is to have a DVR or a Mini on every TV.

You can technically side load the Android Tivo app on an android streaming box, but you need to use a Bluetooth mouse and a remote to control it and run a rotation app force the app to run in portrait mode. It's really clunky and trick play is horrrible.
 
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