Comin’ in strong with this hot take!

A strong first post to be sure!

 

I have 2 Tivo's that I purchased and have been paying the monthly fee for both. My understanding is that they will become useless come October. What would you have me say?

 

You have a point, my most recent experience is all my minis became bricks, when my Internet failed and they couldn't phone home.

Having transistioned to YTTV the only reason to keep the TiVos active was in the event of a internet failure. Well except for the host, the internet failure borked all my minis.

 

If you are a Tivo user, I hope that your Cable provider OBSOLETES your service even though you Purchased the Tivos.
I think that Tivo should be supporting their customers.
If not, they are just going to go out of business!!!!

 

I just canceled my cable subscription earlier this month. There has been absolutely no indication that they (in my case Spectrum) are on the verge of killing off cable card support.

People have been coming here for the last few years proclaiming the end of cablecards & it hasn't happened. You need to provide some pretty convincing new evidence if you want to be taken seriously on this topic.

 

Spectrum says they will keep the cards "for the next few years"..at least in N. Texas......Believe it...or not.

 

I received a letter from Optimum, (also called Tivo) and it was confirmed that as of Oct'24, Cable cards will no longer be able to be used.
Tivo confirmed it, and said they have no solution other than to change providers.

 

Yes this has been reported numerous times. You’re not adding anything but noise.

 

Whether or not your provider continues to support CableCARDs is entirely up to them, thanks to the FCC decision in 2020 that IP based apps on third party platforms provided users sufficient choice over renting CableCo hardware.

Even then, the limitations of CableCARD and the eventual dead end were obvious to Tivo, and they backed AllVid. The FCC refused to vote on it and it was dead in the water as cable MSOs just developed their own IP based apps.

In turn, the cable companies have chosen to develop or license proprietary platforms, and they are not obliged to license or test them with Tivo, or grant Tivo access. And why would they encourage a third party competitor above box rentals they profit from?

Now generally you only see the cablecos begrudgingly offer their IP based apps on the third party hardware platforms that had critical mass long before Tivo released the stream (Roku, Apple TV).

This is not Tivo sitting on their asses and doing nothing, at least not at present.

The one fatal flaw I see is that if Tivo had been more bold and future facing, they could have been Roku before Roku. Yes, the Roamio series had streaming apps, but Tivo could have used their brand to launch streaming only devices while Roku was still nascent, with the Tivo brand recognition and lower hardware prices. Yes, I know the Roamio OTA came in at $49.99 base, but that still had a requirement of Tivo service at $14.99/mo or $150/yr. But the Tivo service is a sweet consistent income stream, and they probably worried about a combination of cheapening their brand and going lower margin on hardware + no ongoing service.

Tivo recognized the importance and growth of streaming - hence the Roamio having key streaming apps - but they failed to take the plunge that could have made their business irrelevant. Roku made the better bet on the market, and by the time Tivo realized that, it's too late. It's now a chicken/egg problem where Tivo's platform does not have the critical mass to make streaming services and cable companies feel that they have to put their app on it or else.

In terms of CableCARD support, how "dead" it is will vary based on your operator, service region, and rollouts. Most fiber deployments in the US were not QAM. The newest NGPON2 from Verizon FiOS doesn't send TV over QAM either, but most people are not signing up for 2 gig+ service and still have older FTTH PON that support CableCard. Spectrum is posturing hard in a lot of their service territory, but is apparently willing to provide the high split converters required to keep CableCARDs working upon request. Comcast is not providing new CableCARDs as of October 24th (from what I understand there is a coin cell battery in these things, and you may want to swap out a cablecard while you still can if you have a really old one... bit of a dice roll vs. programming/pairing though).

A more accurate statement might be Tivo/CableCARD are dying. It will work up until your cable operator goes IPTV only and doesn't send channels QAM, or until your cable operator doesn't want to support cable cards. That could be a month from now, a year, five or more years. But it's an incorrect blanket statement to say that all CableCARDs are dead in October for all regions of all cable operators in the US.

 

The one fatal flaw I see is that if Tivo had been more bold and future facing, they could have been Roku before Roku.

You mean like this? TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV Just too late to the party.

 

Tivo has a IPTV Platform but I do not think it is available to consumers.

 

It’s not, it’s leased from providers who have partnered with TiVo to offer it.

 

Tivo has a IPTV Platform but I do not think it is available to consumers.

Tivo's IPTV platform was designed for cable MSOs, it is indeed not available to consumers. Tivo first introduced it at CES Jan 2018. Other MSOs had started designing their own platforms long below. The problem is that with CableCARD, Tivo controlled the interface, the cablecard just did the video decrypting. IPTV there's no required plugin like that to other platforms, the MSO chooses the platform.

Most of the large MSOs in the states invested in their IPTV platforms/apps well before Tivo offered it. Optimum, for instance, started offering Altice One in 2017. Comcast started launching X1 in 2012. Many had developed apps for IPTV prior for iOS/Android.

At the point where you've already developed a hardware and bought the hardware it runs on, it is an extremely difficult justification to make that one should rip out their old platform, license and test a new one, and then roll it out. And Tivo cannot just unilaterally make MSOs like Optimum support their streaming device/platform that they sell on their own (the Tivo Stream device). Optimum can say they don't force you to rent hardware to watch cable TV between iOS/Android streaming and the support of Apple TV, meeting the "intent" of the separable access requirement that the CableCARD was supposed to fill, while "not stifling innovation".

You mean like this? TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV Just too late to the party.

As I said earlier, the issue is timing. Had Tivo released in 2011-2014 beating or not being far behind Roku to the streaming only box market, it's possible a lot of our friends, family, neighbors would be using Tivo streaming only boxes/sticks.

As it stands, Tivo announced the Tivo Stream in Jan 2020, launching May 2020, at which point the dominant players in the dedicated streaming device market had already been decided.

 

Not obsolete if you have an OTA antenna. You just need the correct TiVo model.

 

My understanding is that Xfinity will no longer supply Cable Cards beginning October 2024, but they've agreed to support Cable Cards that their customers have until 2031. My Scientific Atlanta cable card in my TiVo Roamio went up last night (had a date of 12/2007 on the back), and the Roamio couldn't download new firmware to the card. I went to a local Xfinity store and turned it in and requested 2 newer Cable Cards so I would have them before they run out. Not all stores have them so there seems to be a run on them knowing they are going to be unavailable soon. I set one up on the Roamio and contacted Xfinity to activate it. Everything is working fine again now. So my recommendation Richard is to go get yourself a couple extra cards ASAP so you have them, if you're on Xfinity, as they are supposed to continue to support them. At least you may be able to keep using your dinosaur TiVo equipment a few more years before taking it and throwing it in the LaBrea Tar Pits with the other dinosaurs (and BetaMax VCRs). In the meantime, have 1 Xfinity X1 DVR with cloud saving ability in your house and download the Xfinity App onto your Smart TVs in other rooms, then start getting used to using that technology. I understand your frustration though, as I paid for a Lifetime accessibility (rather than monthly), and not being given another option or refund from TiVo seems like a bad business decision. The TiVo DVR platform is so much better than the Xfinity DVR, but just like Beta was better than VHS, sometimes the better technology becomes obsolete because of poor decisions by the company with the better technology. Good luck to you sir!

 

but they've agreed to support Cable Cards that their customers have until 2031

Incorrect as the deal between Tivo and Comcast had to do with patent licenses not cable cards.

Financial terms were not disclosed, but the new agreement is effective as of the expiration of Comcast's prior agreement with TiVo in 2016. It also provides "broad coverage" under TiVo's patent portfolios into 2031 while resolving all of the outstanding litigation between the companies, they announced.

https://www.lightreading.com/cable-technology/comcast-tivo-bury-the-hatchet

 

What killed TiVo for me was moving to a town that literally doesn't have cable (their internet provider offers a streaming box, but not DVR-type capabilities). So my Cablecard Roamio is now only useful for watching stuff that I've archived in the past...and in the few months I've been here I've only fired it up once to test that the setup works.

I miss TiVo every time I try to use trick-play on my FireTV or Tablio. TiVo has far and away the best watching experience I've ever had. But not much I can do about it, unless I buy a whole new OTA box...and for what little is still on network television, it just wouldn't be worth it.

 

Taken right from a Xfinity/ Comcast bill:

• Equipment Update: Starting on October 24, 2024, Xfinity will no longer provide new CableCARDs to new or existing customers. If you require new TV equipment, please call 1-800-xfinity to speak with an agent who can assist.

 

My Tivo became a brick Wednesday after Xfinity screwed up a Cablecard firmware update or at least my CC couldn't handle it so I wasn't getting any TV. So the tech came out Friday, claimed the October date was moved to July and he had no cablecards to give (I'm in Maryland). Probably a lie or doesn't know anything, but at that point, I was tired and missing my TV broadcasts and chose not to argue with him and just accepted an X1 box (pretty tiny, way smaller than cable boxes of yesteryear) with DVR capability and recordings in the cloud. I'll go to the local office to see if they will waive the box fee for a year as I read somewhere they were doing for Tivo customers. My Tivo (a Roamio) is still plugged in but not receiving TV so I can watch my large recording backlog. Be prepared for pushback if your cablecard glitches and they claim they aren't supporting cablecards anymore

 

The tech was wrong.

You can get new cards from Comcast until Oct 24.

A useful tech would also be able to just fix the firmware issue. There’s are posts here which address how you can fix it too.

Neither your firmware issue nor obtaining new cards are unsolvable issues.

 

You can get new cards from Comcast until Oct 24.

What nobody knows is are these actually new cards or new old stock.
Real easy to stick an old card in a new box.

You can still order Xfinity CableCARDs through r/Comcast_Xfinity on Reddit until October 24th and using the tech support flair. None of the Xfinity stores or local offices carry them anymore. Any that are returned to them by customers are sent to a equipment depot in Colorado. When they are ordered, they are all shipped from a equipment depot in Colorado.

 

What nobody knows is are these actually new cards or new old stock.
Real easy to stick an old card in a new box.

There haven’t been “new” cards in years.

An old card will work just as fine.

 

True....no "new cards" being manufactured. Why would they..cable and Tivos going the way of 8 track players and beta maxes.

My three CC's were nearing "end of life". Not sure what that means as there is no battery in them. So no idea what a "newer" CC does for me. Maybe like Iphones where at some point they will not accept updates to firmware. Mine were about 15 years old. The tech brought by three "newer" ones and by about ten years "newer" and I installed them with new firmware downloaded. Good in that as they seemingly are commtted to supporting them into the forseeable future. That all said..now on week five of no SDV's and in fact now have lost Smithsonian...not sure that is an SDV. Many "escalations" later with calls from area supv saying I have company with this problem....they are still poking around trying to find the solution to this problem which occurs about every six months or so.

 

Maybe Motorola cards have batteries...but I took one of my recently replaced Cisco cards and saw for myself...no battery.

 

My three CC's were nearing "end of life". Not sure what that means as there is no battery in them.

Maybe Motorola cards have batteries...but I took one of my recently replaced Cisco cards and saw for myself...no battery.

I think I have taken apart just about every CableCARD out there and they all had a battery.
Please provide photos to backup your statement your CC do not.

 

Not my Cisco cards. I performed an exploratory laparotomy with a five pound, steel hammer....no battery.

 

you opened yours with surgical precision....I beat my old one with a hammer and then tossed it in the trash....yup...no battery

 

My OTA units stopped working last week and will not come up. They both say starting up, and stay there. So, looks like TIVO is dead...

 

or need new Power Adapters, better than those originally provided by TiVo...

 

Two more nails in the TiVo coffin today. First they announced the end of Netflix app on older units. Another e-mail today announced they would NOT bill me annually for subscription but switching to $9.99 monthly. Does this mean they won't be providing channel guide service going forward sometime in the next year?

 

Does this mean they won't be providing channel guide service going forward sometime in the next year?

No one knows TiVo’s plans except TiVo.

Feel free to speculate.