[CommunityMember]

FYI. A while back about a year ago Optimum stopped support for their old CC (NDS I think). They required a swap to a Powerkey card. As of today, my Powerkey cards on Optimum are functioning along with tuning adapters for both my Tivo bolt 3gb and HD Homerun.

Cablevision was one of the few (only?) US wins for VideoGuard (NDS) CableCARD CA. At some point (I have lost track of the when) Cisco bought NDS, so now had both PowerKey and NDS. Cisco (apparently) offered an attractive migration to PowerKey, and Cablevision took that off-ramp from VideoGuard (NDS). NDS, as I recall, had some specific operational particularities that were sufficiently different than the classic SCTE-55 approaches that was codified for the Motoroa and Scientific Atlanta solutions, which was probably another nail in its coffin.

 

[daytona675]

Thanks for the additional info. I was replying to someone's post about their cards no longer working on Optimum (Altice). I was wondering if they still were still using the old NDS card at the time because it was around the same time as the switch to Powerkey. It wouldn't surprise me if Optimum "refused" to fix the problem as suggested in their post because Optimum had no idea what the problem really was.

 

[ITGrouch]

You didn’t say where you live but here in Rochester NY, I just walked in and they gave me a pre-packaged kit with cable card and adapter for my new Edge. I wonder if it’s regional and if there’s enough volume, they’ll keep CC’s. When I turned in a cable box, I noticed it had a CC installed in it, too.

Don't bet on Charter supporting CableCARD when they start rolling out high split in all markets. You may have 2-4 years of CableCARD support in your market.

 

[dslunceford]

Previously asked and answered in this thread.

Not answered in a super clean way - but it looks like a couple folks have checked Motorola cards (including on Verizon) and are not seeing references to PowerKey.

 

[wjbatlanta]

What would you expect TiVo to do?

Discontinue their product line because of unspecified plans from unspecified providers with no timelines? Maybe they could require proof that you don’t have Spectrum and only sell to those customers? Or maybe they should just declare bankruptcy and walk away because Spectrum is sending scary letters to some of their customers.

Or, maybe they should continue to sell their products since they work perfectly fine as advertised.

k

What would you expect TiVo to do?

Discontinue their product line because of unspecified plans from unspecified providers with no timelines? Maybe they could require proof that you don’t have Spectrum and only sell to those customers? Or maybe they should just declare bankruptcy and walk away because Spectrum is sending scary letters to some of their customers.

Or, maybe they should continue to sell their products since they work perfectly fine as advertised.

I think you've miss my point..........back in late 2008 when TIVO got all of the major cable companies to discuss their plans with digital - TIVO had several plans.
The majority (and, larger) cable companies decided they'd go along with TIVO's cable card plan. Agreements were more than just handshakes (with Motorola and CISCO).

Now TIVO is no longer the same company nor same owners (just like most cable companies) and are still selling new boxes with lifetime memberships.
I don't like the fact I just forked out almost $500 for a membership that may only be useful another year or, two. If cable companies continue to capture back cards TIVOs will no "work fine as advertised"

As for bankruptcy, take a look at Xperi's balance sheet - they're not going anywhere........
Interesting piece in the WSJ a couple of months ago about Xperi and how they'll likely steer things away from DVR's without the cable companies partnering's and plans to dive deeper into the streaming world.

I've been watching SiliconeDust with lots of plans for the future (and pay plans only $35/yr)...........it looks to be a better plan with your home network.

 

[justen_m]

Anyone have insights as to whether this issue will affect Motorola cards used by Verizon FIOS?

Nope, not a problem with Motorola.

Previously asked and answered in this thread.

So you wasted bandwidth being rude instead of just answering the question. I get it. Does that make you feel powerful?

 

[cwoody222]

k

I think you've miss my point..........back in late 2008 when TIVO got all of the major cable companies to discuss their plans with digital - TIVO had several plans.
The majority (and, larger) cable companies decided they'd go along with TIVO's cable card plan. Agreements were more than just handshakes (with Motorola and CISCO).

Now TIVO is no longer the same company nor same owners (just like most cable companies) and are still selling new boxes with lifetime memberships.
I don't like the fact I just forked out almost $500 for a membership that may only be useful another year or, two. If cable companies continue to capture back cards TIVOs will no "work fine as advertised"

As for bankruptcy, take a look at Xperi's balance sheet - they're not going anywhere........
Interesting piece in the WSJ a couple of months ago about Xperi and how they'll likely steer things away from DVR's without the cable companies partnering's and plans to dive deeper into the streaming world.

I've been watching SiliconeDust with lots of plans for the future (and pay plans only $35/yr)...........it looks to be a better plan with your home network.

Um, no one went along with “TiVos cable card plan” in 2008 (TiVos first CC TiVo came out in 2006, BTW)

The cable card was the outcome of the federal government’s plan to create an open marketplace. That plan predated TiVo as a company.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

As for bankruptcy, I was being sarcastic.

 

[CommunityMember]

Not answered in a super clean way - but it looks like a couple folks have checked Motorola cards (including on Verizon) and are not seeing references to PowerKey.

I guess this response was not clear? Or did you not trust dishrich's very explicit message?

Motorola &/or Arris CC's have NOTHING to do with this topic & are not affected...

 

[bantar]

Now TIVO is no longer the same company nor same owners (just like most cable companies) and are still selling new boxes with lifetime memberships.
I don't like the fact I just forked out almost $500 for a membership that may only be useful another year or, two. If cable companies continue to capture back cards TIVOs will no "work fine as advertised"
...
I've been watching SiliconeDust with lots of plans for the future (and pay plans only $35/yr)...........it looks to be a better plan with your home network.

Another alternative is ChannelsDVR. A monster thread is here: https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/channels-dvr.584214/ I was an early adopter of Tivo and still love it, but features are dropping, so a few months ago, I started scouting and now have this running in parallel with my Tivos. Using both at the moment. I also looked at SiliconeDust, but it's a subset of ChannelsDVR.

One great thing about Tivo is that I can tune in to 2 or more live channels, let them buffer and then switch between these channels during commercials. This is when I turn the TV on, with no hard commitment to watch a specific show. You cannot do this with ChannelsDVR, HOWEVER, it has a new-age replacement. I just recently setup a new feature called a Virtual Channel.

It allows me to create a channel of shows that I would be willing to watch in lieu of the live scenario. I tune in like a live channel, but the shows have the commercials already removed and are ones I like, because I created the channel. Tune to that channel and start watching. No need to channel surf looking for palatable content. For instance, I have one sitcom channel that includes Friends, Seinfeld, Futurama, etc. You can create a Westerns channel and more.

 

[jwrothwell]

Yeah, I'm also running Channels DVR in parallel with my TiVo's, so that the eventual switch-over won't be so painful. I'm mostly using virtual channels with my "home movies" since I otherwise would never get around to watching our personal family videos, tho I also set up a TV comedy channel with every episode of Modern Family, Two and a Half Guys, Seinfeld, The Office, and Curb Your Enthusiasm.

My favorite things with Channels DVR is its automatic, nearly instantaneous and spot-on commercial skipping, the fact that it stores everything in easily-accessed, standard format files, ready for downloading for travel (I have its 8TB drive mapped as a network drive on my Windows desktop, even though Channels is running on a Raspberry Pi.) Though I also use its remote viewing over wi-fi and/or cell service -- being able to watch live TV or my own recordings from home while sitting at a Supercharger is a life-changer!

The only downsides I've found are, no ability to record the "pay" channels, the usual clunky play controls that all streaming services have, and the fact that it's not available on the usual streaming client devices (Roku, etc.), so I'm using the much more expensive Nvidia Shield. Fortunately, there are apps available for my phones and tablets.

All in all, it's a great Tivo alternative and eventual replacement -- until the cable companies (eventually) stop cooperating by working with TV Everywhere -- a very necessary component for my set-up.

 

[DigitalDawn]

Yeah, I'm also running Channels DVR in parallel with my TiVo's, so that the eventual switch-over won't be so painful. I'm mostly using virtual channels with my "home movies" since I otherwise would never get around to watching our personal family videos, tho I also set up a TV comedy channel with every episode of Modern Family, Two and a Half Guys, Seinfeld, The Office, and Curb Your Enthusiasm.

My favorite things with Channels DVR is its automatic, nearly instantaneous and spot-on commercial skipping, the fact that it stores everything in easily-accessed, standard format files, ready for downloading for travel (I have its 8TB drive mapped as a network drive on my Windows desktop, even though Channels is running on a Raspberry Pi.) Though I also use its remote viewing over wi-fi and/or cell service -- being able to watch live TV or my own recordings from home while sitting at a Supercharger is a life-changer!

The only downsides I've found are, no ability to record the "pay" channels, the usual clunky play controls that all streaming services have, and the fact that it's not available on the usual streaming client devices (Roku, etc.), so I'm using the much more expensive Nvidia Shield. Fortunately, there are apps available for my phones and tablets.

All in all, it's a great Tivo alternative and eventual replacement -- until the cable companies (eventually) stop cooperating by working with TV Everywhere -- a very necessary component for my set-up.

How is the video quality for Channels Everywhere/Channels vs. TiVo and cable card?

 

[bantar]

How is the video quality for Channels Everywhere/Channels vs. TiVo and cable card?

The Cable Card is used for Authentication and thus decryption of your encrypted shows. TvE is the internet equivalent of the CableCard. It is the (validation of) Authentication for a specific stream. The streams are coming from the channel provider (e.g. ABC, Fox, Paramount, etc). Neither the CableCard, nor TvE has any influence on the quality of the channels being delivered. Quality comes from the source / provider.

Here's a press release on TvE: Adobe Pass for TV Everywhere: New Premium Video Authentication Solution Now Available After you read this release, reflect on the previous note that the channels/streams come from the source providers. There are many channels and thus many providers. TvE is a centralized validation service for the many providers. With Tivo and your cable system, you only have one provider - your cable system. They manage subscriptions for your channels thru the CableCard. Your authentication is the initial pairing of the CableCard.

I'll add this note: I have Frontier FIOS. I'm getting channels on my Tivo with my paid FIOS subscription. I'm also using the same FIOS subscription to receive those same channels using TvE. Just as you can login to HBO to Go by authenticating thru your Cable Provider with your HBO subscription, the same process is used for TvE channel authentication.

I will say that the initial setup of TvE does require some one-time logins to get various channels working. Then, once done, ChannelsDVR keeps these active for you. Since big conglomerates own many channels, you don't have to authenticate 100's of times. Also, not all providers support TvE currently, but the majority seem to support this. If I have a missing channel, I've not yet spotted it.

 

[jwrothwell]

How is the video quality for Channels Everywhere/Channels vs. TiVo and cable card?

I'm seeing the same video quality on Channels DVR as on my Roamio Tivo. The mpg files created show 1920x1080 resolution. But I don't watch any sports or other fast moving action so I can't speak to any artifacts that some people have complained of. I'm generally quite satisfied with the picture and sound.

 

[tluxon]

How is the video quality for Channels Everywhere/Channels vs. TiVo and cable card?

Channels DVR is going to record whatever the streaming service or tuner provides. I'm using OTA via the HDHR Quattro tuners and cable via an HDHR Prime, which uses a cable card just like the TiVos. In my experience, OTA gives the highest bitrate and many programs are still broadcast in 1080p. With cable card via Xfinity in the Seattle area almost every - if not all - channels are now coming through in 720p using the AVC codec at 59.94 fps. With TVE, I've been finding most everything at 720p, 29.97 fps with bitrates about 2/3 that of the cable card tuners.

 

[dishrich]

In my experience, OTA gives the highest bitrate and many programs are still broadcast in 1080p.

Unless it's a NextGen 3.0 OTA signal, NO other OTA channels are in 1080p; it's 1080i at best.
Also OTA pic quality varies greatly from one market to another; particularly due to these NG rollouts, OTA bitrates on many existing channels (both HD & SD) are actually falling, due to the consolidation of existing 1.0 channels onto other 1.0 transmitters, in order for NG broadcasters to maintain compatibility with existing tuners. Our market just got NG last week, which caused our local FOX broadcasts, to be consolidated onto our local ABC tower, which also already had 3 SD subchannels. Obviously the OTA 1.0 transmitters aren't magically getting more bandwidth out of their existing 6Mhz signals, so something has to give when these consolidations happen.

 

[ITGrouch]

Unless it's a NextGen 3.0 OTA signal, NO other OTA channels are in 1080p; it's 1080i at best.
Also OTA pic quality varies greatly from one market to another; particularly due to these NG rollouts, OTA bitrates on many existing channels (both HD & SD) are actually falling, due to the consolidation of existing 1.0 channels onto other 1.0 transmitters, in order for NG broadcasters to maintain compatibility with existing tuners. Our market just got NG last week, which caused our local FOX broadcasts, to be consolidated onto our local ABC tower, which also already had 3 SD subchannels. Obviously the OTA 1.0 transmitters aren't magically getting more bandwidth out of their existing 6Mhz signals, so something has to give when these consolidations happen.

In my market in the Nashville area, we have two towers (stations), WUXP and WNAB, that provide NG, and their 1.0 signals are transmitted on other station's towers. WUXP and WNAB transmitters/antennas are on the same candelabra tower.

 

[tluxon]

Unless it's a NextGen 3.0 OTA signal, NO other OTA channels are in 1080p; it's 1080i at best.
...

Sorry, you're right - I meant to say 1080i, 29.97 fps. The local (to me) OTA bitrates are appreciably higher at often up to 10 MB/sec compared to often 3 to 6 MB/sec for cable and streaming channels. You may notice a difference in PQ when viewing Channels DVR programming away from home where you may wish to use transcoding to reduce the transmission data required..

 

[DigitalDawn]

Sorry, you're right - I meant to say 1080i, 29.97 fps. The local (to me) OTA bitrates are appreciably higher at often up to 10 MB/sec compared to often 3 to 6 MB/sec for cable and streaming channels. You may notice a difference in PQ when viewing Channels DVR programming away from home where you may wish to use transcoding to reduce the transmission data required..

If I was using an antenna for local stations and TVE for cable channels, would Channels combine them in the grid?

 

[bantar]

If I was using an antenna for local stations and TVE for cable channels, would Channels combine them in the grid?

Yes. You would do this thru an add-on box, HDHomeRun. Your antenna connects to this box and it produces streams in your home network. Channels can then grab these streams and have them show in the same feed as your other channels. ChannelsDVR can record these OTA streams.

I don't have the HDHomeRun box, but I do have channels from both Frontier FIOS and YouTubeTV. If I had an HDHomeRun, I would see a unified TV Guide with all channels presented together. I would then have 3 separate sets of local channels to choose from because my paid services both have local channels as well. I can choose to show them all or just my favorite source. More here: Channels — How It Works

 

[wmcbrine]

How is the video quality for Channels Everywhere/Channels vs. TiVo and cable card?

Inferior. Variable, but definitely inferior overall.

To be fair, in fact, a handful of channels are better via TVE than on Fios -- channels that are only SD on Fios, but HD via TVE. But again, overall... TVE is noticeably worse, both by my eye, and by the stats. For example, the C-SPAN channels are all some weird sub-HD format, while many other channels are low bit rate, and/or low frame rate, etc. Also, not every channel on the cable system is available via TVE at all. (Most are, though.)