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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My TiVo HD records repeat showings that are set up as "First Run Only". My S3 correctly does not record repeats when the season pass is set up exactly the same way. It happens to many shows I have set up this way, but not all.

The program descriptions show the program is a repeat on both the TiVo HD and S3.

So I doubt this issue is a guide data problem.
 

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On an S3 I am getting this problem with USA Network shows (4400). The guide data shows the "R" correctly for the repeats. It may be the "Original Air Date" or "Episode Number" data that is causing the confusion with the SP.
 

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I've been experiencing something similar, but I haven't found a repeatable pattern. It also seems to clear itself up some.

Examples:

The Closer on TNT -
First week I got my TivoHD (two weeks ago). I set up "The Closer" and only record first run. It recorded 3 or 4 episodes, none of which were duplicates of themselves, but they were the previous three weeks and the current week. As of this week, it only recorded 1 episode, the new one.

Top Chef on FoodNetwork
First week I got 3 episodes after my initial setup to only record first run. This week, it only recorded 1 episode...the new one.

It's possible that there could be a bug with either the first week of service with a TivoHD and recording duplicates, for some reason those episodes were not marked (r), something with the initial setup schedule or any number of bits. A sampling of 2 for me is not good enough to make a good guess, but there is something fishy.

-Status
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Some of my repeats have cleared up, which is really strange.

All the remaining repeats are now on shows exclusive to USA network, including The Dead Zone, The 4400, and Burn Notice.

The problem is only apparent on my Tivo HD. The S3 works just fine. I wonder if there is an bug in the 8.1 SW in the THD versus the 8.3 SW in the S3.
 

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Status said:
I've been experiencing something similar, but I haven't found a repeatable pattern. It also seems to clear itself up some.

Examples:

The Closer on TNT -
First week I got my TivoHD (two weeks ago). I set up "The Closer" and only record first run. It recorded 3 or 4 episodes, none of which were duplicates of themselves, but they were the previous three weeks and the current week. As of this week, it only recorded 1 episode, the new one.

Top Chef on FoodNetwork
First week I got 3 episodes after my initial setup to only record first run. This week, it only recorded 1 episode...the new one.

It's possible that there could be a bug with either the first week of service with a TivoHD and recording duplicates, for some reason those episodes were not marked (r), something with the initial setup schedule or any number of bits. A sampling of 2 for me is not good enough to make a good guess, but there is something fishy.

-Status
Your SP's are working correctly for the two examples. If the program was a new episode within the last 28 days, your TiVo would record it once for you. Going forward it would only pick up the new episodes once.

The problems described are for people with longtime SP's that are randomly getting repeat broadcasts recorded - usually for a specific set of shows.
 

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Tivo does not use the (R) flag to determine if a show is a repeat or not (for better or worse). They obtain the information from Zap2It, I believe based upon original air date (which plays hell with Sci-Fi and Dr. Who because it was originally aired over in Europe, so if you want it to record over here you have to tell it ALL episodes, otherwise it'll never record).
 

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m_jonis said:
(which plays hell with Sci-Fi and Dr. Who because it was originally aired over in Europe, so if you want it to record over here you have to tell it ALL episodes, otherwise it'll never record).
Actually you'd only need to say Repeats & First Run and not All Episodes. But First Run works - the guide data for Doctor Who uses the *US* Air Date, not the UK Air Date. I have a 'First Run Only' SP for Doctor Who that works fine. Next week's episode, Blink, has an OAD of 9/14/07. BBCA also 'fixes' the OAD for Torchwood.

As others have pointed out 'First Run' is within 28 days of the OAD, so if you setup a new unit and say 'First Run Only' it may record episodes from the previous month because they are new to it.
 

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megazone said:
Actually you'd only need to say Repeats & First Run and not All Episodes.
Can someone list the meanings of:
First Run
Repeats & First Run
All Episodes

From reading this thread I *think* it means
First Run - Original Air Date in zap2it/tribune guide data matches today's date (or is missing?)
Repeats & First Run - Same as First Run + if OAD doesn't match today's date and episode ID hasn't been recorded in the last 28 days, record it
All Episodes - record it always with no filtering

Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just guessing based on piecing together various bits and pieces people have mentioned.

I have Season Passes for Monk and Psych (set for "First Run") which are recording various episodes which have the "Repeat" flag, clearly indicating they are repeats, but apprently a flag unused by TiVo's algorithm.

I'm guessing it is because zap2it/tribune guide data has the "original air date" either missing or incorrect but the guide data is no longer there (or I don't know how to get it) to see what could have happened.
 

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Another possible explanation:
When the "R" repeat tag is present, there is no episode number, the original air date is the first airing date of the entire series, there is no episode title, and just a generic program description, then your SP will record the episode even if it is set to "First Run Only". While it is not clearly identifiable as a new episode, the lack of program data causes TiVo to err on the side of caution and try to record the program. There are some always new programs (like some news programs)that don't have program data that would only get recorded once ever even with an SP set to "First Run Only". It may be something USA does intentionally (so TiVo's are recording their programs/channel more frequently) or they may be just not getting the information out in time for the repeat time slots. It is likely the latter. There are lots of guides out there. In fact, the one on the USA Network website has the episode titles for the problem programs for over two weeks out (the max amount of time in your TiVo guide data).
 

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Maybe this will be easier to discuss. Someone should list a rough algorithm used to decide repeats based on the following data.
Code:
  <programme start="20070524050000 +0000" stop="20070524060000 +0000">
    <title lang="en">CSI: NY</title>
    <sub-title lang="en">Obsession</sub-title>
    <desc lang="en">A man found dead in the snow with a price tag inside his stomach leads the CSIs to an annual competition in which contestants race shopping carts from Brooklyn to Manhattan.</desc>
    <date>20070117</date>
    <episode-num system="dd_progid">EP679714.0060</episode-num>
    <previously-shown />
  </programme>
On the surface I could tell this is a repeat because:
1) OAD (<date>) doesn't match today's date
2) Presence of Repeat flag (<previously-show />)
3) Episode ID (<episode-num>) could have been listed as recorded already

There are other comparisons of sub-title and descriptions that could be used as well. I'm not really interested in what could be happening (we could theorize forever) but more interested in what data is actually being used and how it is being used.
 

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My THD does the same thing. But my Toshiba Series 2 also does the same thing. I tivo Spike TV's car shows like Muscle Car, Trucks and Horsepower TV and on both the series 3 and series 2 it will record the repeats even though it is set to "first run only"
 

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megazone said:
Actually you'd only need to say Repeats & First Run and not All Episodes. But First Run works - the guide data for Doctor Who uses the *US* Air Date, not the UK Air Date. I have a 'First Run Only' SP for Doctor Who that works fine. Next week's episode, Blink, has an OAD of 9/14/07. BBCA also 'fixes' the OAD for Torchwood.

As others have pointed out 'First Run' is within 28 days of the OAD, so if you setup a new unit and say 'First Run Only' it may record episodes from the previous month because they are new to it.
Unless something recently changed, it's not the OAD in the US

Because when I first setup my season pass when it showed on the Sci Fi I set it to First Run only and it didn't record any of the first 4 episodes. When I inquired in the forums as to why, I was told it was because the original air date was used regardless. Sure enough, set it to be first run and repeat and then it recorded.
 

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sfhub said:
Can someone list the meanings of:
First Run
Repeats & First Run
All Episodes

From reading this thread I *think* it means
First Run - Original Air Date in zap2it/tribune guide data matches today's date (or is missing?)
Repeats & First Run - Same as First Run + if OAD doesn't match today's date and episode ID hasn't been recorded in the last 28 days, record it
All Episodes - record it always with no filtering
You've got All Episodes right, the others not quite:

First Run - Records the episode if it is within 28 days of the OAD. The 28-day rule is in effect, so this results in it only recording the episode once in total.

Repeats & First Run - Records the episode if it hasn't been recorded in the previous 28 days. (28-day rule.) OAD doesn't matter.

All Episodes - Records all episodes - even the same one over and over.. 28-day rule is NOT in effect. OAD doesn't matter.
 

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So there are basically 2 conditions?
1) OAD+28 rule - show must be within 28 days of Original Air Date
2) 28-day rule - show must not have been recorded within last 28 days (which data items does it use to determine a show has been recorded? EpisodeID?, OAD?, Subtitle?, Description?, Combination of above?)
Code:
                      OAD+28   28-day
          First Run      Y       Y
Repeats & First Run      -       Y
       All Episodes      -       -
 
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