[dmheitz]

Please don't attack the motivation just the science...

Could an HR10 record an MPEG-4 stream as it does MPEG-2 streams?

If so, instead of decoding it while playing, the HR10 would pipe it to an H20 (non-DVR) via USB for MPEG-4 decoding and displaying? All pausing, FFwding and Season passes would be managed by the HR-10 but the decoding of the MPEG-4 stream would be done as the last step before sending it to the TV ?

I know this does not make "sense (or cents)" for DirecTv but is the science possible ?

 

[rminsk]

Not even possible. The new HD mpeg-4 stream are using the Ka frequency band were the old HD streams are on the Ku band. The receivers would have to be changed to even get a signal.

 

[Adam1115]

Not even possible. The new HD mpeg-4 stream are using the Ka frequency band were the old HD streams are on the Ku band. The receivers would have to be changed to even get a signal.

Theoretically that could be solved with some type of switch, but even if it could receive KA, it couldn't do mpeg4...

 

[dmheitz]

Theoretically that could be solved with some type of switch, but even if it could receive KA, it couldn't do mpeg4...

But when you say, it couldn't do "mpeg4" don't the TiVos record the compressed signal and then decode only when you play it. Back to my original thought...

 

[Adam1115]

But when you say, it couldn't do "mpeg4" don't the TiVos record the compressed signal and then decode only when you play it. Back to my original thought...

Yes, but that decoding happens using hardware that that the HR10 doesn't have.

So sure, I guess they could implement a solution where you could record it but not be able to play it...

 

[bonscott87]

There are 2 problems:

1) The HR10 can't see the 2 new satellite slots. Just like receivers 10 years ago can't see the 119 sat and thus if your locals appeared on 119 you needed to replace your receivers to get them. Same thing here, it's simply all older receivers including the HR10 can't see or tune to the new satellite slots.

2) The HR10 cannot decode MPEG4, it just doesn't have the hardware to do it.

Sure DirecTV could do MPEG2 on the new sats but that doesn't do any good if the HR10 can't see the new sats in the first place.

 

[JimSpence]

And the whole reason behind MPEG4 is that it is a more efficient compression method allowing DirecTV to put more channels on each transponder.

 

[Adam1115]

Sure DirecTV could do MPEG2 on the new sats but that doesn't do any good if the HR10 can't see the new sats in the first place.

No, they could've. They could've done a multiswitch that shifted the KA freqs into KU band for the receiver.

They didn't like Jim said, to squeeze more capacity in.

 

[HiDefGator]

Imagine how much free bandwidth there would be if they didn't have to broadcast the same network channels 200 times each.

 

[dmheitz]

If the HR10 could see those satellites, it could record that stream just not play it back. Could the stream you are watching then be piped to some other box to decode the MPEG4 (like the non-DVR) H20 does now ?

I know this is just theoretical, but a device to decode the MPEG4 stream and send it out HDMI does not seem like a stretch.

 

[Adam1115]

Nope. There would be no where to connect it.... Unless they shipped a soldering iron with it...

 

[HiDefGator]

I know this is just theoretical, but a device to decode the MPEG4 stream and send it out HDMI does not seem like a stretch.

But putting this much thought in how you can keep using an outdated relic dvr instead of getting the brand new dvr does seem like stretch.

 

[JimSpence]

Imagine how much free bandwidth there would be if they didn't have to broadcast the same network channels 200 times each.

Blame the FCC for that. IMHO, there's no reason why either DBS company needs to provide hundreds of the same network feed across the country. With today's technology, I'm sure a method to provide the network feed and then add in local info could have been found.

 

[dagap]

Just about anything is possible. They could design a box that sits in front of the HR10 and decodes the mpeg4 signal, then recodes it in mpeg2 and spits it out a coax to the HR10.

They'd probably need to sell them for $10,000 each in order to recoup R&D.

How many would you buy?

 

[bonscott87]

No, they could've. They could've done a multiswitch that shifted the KA freqs into KU band for the receiver.

They didn't like Jim said, to squeeze more capacity in.

KU and KA band have little to do with it. Let me explain again. The HR10 and older receivers can't see the 99 and 103 satellite slots. They could have KU sats there and it still wouldn't matter, the HR10 can't see those sats. Just like my very first Sony receiver in 1996 only could tune to 101. It didn't know about 110 and 119 when those were added a few years later. It just couldn't see those sats. Thus I had to replace the old Sony with a new receiver that could see 110 and 119.

And thus now we need to get new receivers that can see 99 and 103.
What DirecTV decided to do at the same time is go to MPEG4 compression since Dish and everyone else is going that way as well. Might as well kill 2 birds with one stone. And the only reason they are using KA is because there are no KU licenses available anywhere near their current sats.

 

[TonyD79]

Imagine how much free bandwidth there would be if they didn't have to broadcast the same network channels 200 times each.

Not much. The same frequencies are used over and over again. That is what a spotbeam does.

 

[Adam1115]

KU and KA band have little to do with it. Let me explain again. The HR10 and older receivers can't see the 99 and 103 satellite slots. They could have KU sats there and it still wouldn't matter, the HR10 can't see those sats. Just like my very first Sony receiver in 1996 only could tune to 101. It didn't know about 110 and 119 when those were added a few years later. It just couldn't see those sats. Thus I had to replace the old Sony with a new receiver that could see 110 and 119.

Well of COURSE the HR10 can't see a hypothetical satellite that doesn't exist..

The title of the thread is "What if..?" I think if the plan were for the HR10 to see the additional satellites there would be a software update..

We're talking about what the HARDWARE of the HR10 is capable of...

 

[Adam1115]

Not much. The same frequencies are used over and over again. That is what a spotbeam does.

But they still have to uplink 200 stations...

 

[TyroneShoes]

If the HR10 could see those satellites, it could record that stream just not play it back. Could the stream you are watching then be piped to some other box to decode the MPEG4 (like the non-DVR) H20 does now ?

I know this is just theoretical, but a device to decode the MPEG4 stream and send it out HDMI does not seem like a stretch.

I's not a stretch. A consumer-level box to do that could be done for under $100, assuming they had 10,000 subs lined up for it.

But there is still a problem. Or two.

Is it the Ka sats? No. Any device can "see" the Ka sats. A cheap add-on converter would be needed for the Ka frequency to be converted to L-band (in lieu of the Ku-to-L-band conversion used now). All you would need to make that work would be a new AT9 or SlimLine dish (easy to get) and a software download that would allow the HR10 to recognize the programming map of the new sats (not likely to ever see the light of day). So that's a problem involving negotiation between the Ka sats and the HR10, but not really a problem with the sats themselves or a problem recording from them on the HR10. That, can be done.

Is it the HR10? Well, not really. At this point you could see the signals, record them, and read them back off the HDD. The problem, and I guess you could call this an HR10-centric problem if you wanted to split hairs, is that the compressed video files streamed off the HD are decoded immediately to baseband video, and that is all that is ported out the back. IOW, there is no opportunity to reroute that compressed stream into an outband MPEG-4 decoder because there is no port out connection from that point in the processing stream. And even if you had it, the H20 doesn't have an input port for compressed MPEG-4, only inputs for ATSC-modulated RF and DVB-modulated RF.

So, somewhat theoretically possible, but impractical enough to not expect to see. You could probably make a converter for leaded gasoline to run in an unleaded engine, too, but it's impractical enough to never happen.

 

[dmheitz]

I's not a stretch....
Is it the Ka sats? No....
Is it the HR10? Well, not really...
So, somewhat theoretically possible...

Thank you.

I was trying to understand the academic aspect of a federated approach: one device that implements the proprietary satellite interface, a separate device that implements the DVR function, and a 3rd device that implements the decoding to the set. I am not trying to buy it or sell it, just understand it.