[Icehawk]

OK, here are the symptoms:

Comcast cable, S3 box. I was watching TV two days ago w/o problems when the machine started freezing/dropping out on one of my HD channels - sometimes those channels hiccup for a moment so it took me a minute to realize something was off. Pressing buttons on the remote or Tivo box took several minutes, if at all, to respond. Rebooted and it took forever to get to the menu where it was basically frozen - left it on and it eventually rebooted to the same situation. I ended up unplugging the cable line and voila, the Tivo works fine. Plug in cable and everthing locks up. Unplug and unfrozen. Ok, realized these were HD channels so I managed to get it to switch to a SD channel by unplugging the cable, changing channel and then plugging it back in.

I can reproduce this at will - connecting to a HD channel essentially locks my Tivo completely. Also I can watch recorded HD content no problems.

HELP!!!

 

[Silica]

I have the same reboot problem and am very frustrated. I first noticed the problem a week ago when I tried to download an Unbox movie from Amazon. I have used the Unbox service w/ my series 2 without any problems but it was the first time that I tried Unbox on my series 3. My series 3 would try to download and then reboot after several minutes. It was basically unresponsive to the remote (minutes between clicks or none at all). I had noticed a problem probably 2 weeks ago where the series 3 wasn't responding to my SlingBox. I had just assumed it was an IR placement problem but hadn't checked it out. The problem may have been present before I even tried the Unbox download (most likely). The IR transmitter for the Slingbox was placed appropriately so I think it was the series 3 having problems.

I tried removing network access (wired Ethernet cable) to stop the download. It didn't help. (The wireless adapters are known to cause reboot problems, but I don't have one. ) I called TiVo to transfer the download to my series 2 to stop the series 3 download. They couldn't do it, and I had to call Amazon which started a new download for my series 2 (which worked fine).

I called TiVo support and they told me to remove the cable cards in the series 3. The box booted fine and had normal reponse time to the remote. Everything worked except channel tuning (no cable cards). At least, I don't think the hard drive has a problem (relief). It's definitely related to the cable cards/channel tuning.

I reconnected the Ethernet cable and tried a manual listing update which worked fine (cable cards removed). I then noticed that it started downloading the Unbox video. Evidentally, Amazon didn't cancel it as I had hoped. I let it run and the download completed successfully. The box ran fine overnight with no reboots.

I tried re-inserting the cable cards and the problem returned. At one point, I removed the cable cards and still had extremely slow response. I noticed that the tuners were both set to channel 280 which is one of my HD channels. I changed the channels off of HD and performance improved (with cable cards removed). I rebooted and perfomance was normal. The series 3 apparently remembers the last channels used by the tuners following a reboot.

I have talked with TiVo support who said the cable cards must be bad. The support person called Time Warner for me and helped me schedule a cable card replacement. The cable guy came, plugged one new card into the TiVo. The box rebooted 2 times with about 8 - 10 minutes between each reboot. The cable guy said that he couldn't install the cards if the box won't stay running for at least 30 minutes. The cable card would be permanently damaged if a reboot occurred during the middle of cable card firmware download (~25 minutes). He was willing to try but it appeared pointless so I let him go. The cable signal levels were perfect so that is not the problem.

I called TiVo support. The person was less experienced than the original person that helped me. She asked if the cable guy tried more than one card. He didn't. It seems highly suspicious to me that a new card would be bad. I tried to get TiVo to investigate deeper before I called Time Warner, but I got no where with her.

I called Time Warner to come back on Thursday with several Cable Cards in hand.

I am frustrated about being stuck in the middle. This is the down side about owning a TiVo instead of using the cable company DVR. I can't make one company solve the problem. I have been amazed with how stable my series 2 box has been for about 6 years and very disappointed with this Series 3 problem. I've had the series 3 since November with no major problems. So far, I haven't had to pay anyone to resolve this reboot problem but that won't last long. Returning the TiVo will get expensive, and I would most likely have to pay Time Warner for a new Cable Card install. I'm estimating over $100 to resolve it by exchanging the TiVo box, shipping, cable install. So I am motivated to really isolate the real problem.

I haven't tried disconnecting the Time Warner cable from the series 3. I plan to try that tonight and see if the reboot problem can be avoided with the Cable Cards installed and the cable disconnected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am wondering if there is some issue with the 8.3 release. It might also be Time Warner but I don't know yet. If anyone has other ideas to help isolate the problem I would love to hear it.

 

[Icehawk]

OK, here is my update:

Tivo w/cards installed and cable plugged in - locks up immediately on HD channels. Unplug cable all good.

Tivo w/o cards and cable plugged in - wth??? It now locks up on any channel.

TV with cable plugged in directly - works fine.

We tried new cards and the Tivo locked up when the cable is attached, remove and the Tivo functions but obviously you can't pair/activate the CCs.

It *seems* like it is a Tivo problem to me since the cable works fine when attached directly to the TV. Tivo says they will swap my unit but it will cost me ~$50 which IMO blows considering how much the unit cost to begin with.


The "stuck in the middle" part REALLy sucks.

Btw I am in Miami, FL if it matters.

 

[Silica]

Icehawk,

I agree that $50 exchange cost is high considering the unit was expensive and less than a year old. I expect Time Warner will charge me to re-pair cable cards with a different box which is another $43.

I plan to spend enough time to convince myself that it is really a TiVo hardware failure before doing the exchange. It would be really bad to do the exchange and have the same problem occur again with a different box.

My series 3 runs fine under the "TiVo w/o cards and cable plugged in" condition except that I had a problem when the tuners were set to 280 which is my Discovery HD channel (encrypted). If I changed the channel to broadcast HD or standard definition, it works fine.

I'll let you know what happens when I try disconnecting the cable. I haven't tried it yet.

I also disabled KidZone. I initially had it enabled (since I have 3 kids). It didn't make any noticeable difference but one less thing to consider.

I tried using SwivelSearch once a few weeks ago. I doubt it is related but was something different that I used in the recent past. I didn't watch much TV in June so I don't know exactly when the box started having problems.

 

[Silica]

Let me qualify what I meant by "works fine". I meant that perfomance wasn't a problem. However, I could not view the broadcast HD channel if I remember correctly. I should try that one again.

 

[Silica]

I tried disconnecting the Time Warner cable with both cable cards inserted and the performance problem went away. If I connect the cable, the box immediately slows down and becomes close to unresponsive. It happens even with standard channels (3 and 10). It appears that I have the same type of problem as IceHawk.

I called TiVo support and they want to exchange the box. I said that I wasn't quite ready to pay the $49 exchange fee + shipping + cable re-installation of the cable cards.

I have Time Warner coming Thursday afternoon with more cable cards, but I don't know if it is worth it. I may have to throw in the towel and pay for the exchange. I need to think about it a little more.

 

[Silica]

I have a contact within Time Warner who is the local cable card expert. He helped with the original painful install of the cable cards. Once he was involved in the install problem, the issue was resolved immediately. I plan to ask him if anything coming down the cable could cause the cable card to misbehave. He should call me back tomorrow. I expect him to say no but will give it a shot before taking the exchange route.

The other idea was to "clear and delete" everything in the TiVo through the system menu. If I get to the point of exchanging the box, it won't hurt to try clear and delete since I will lose everyhting anyway with the exchange.

 

[Icehawk]

Please keep me posted as I also don't know what to do... I'll pay for the exchange IF that is really the problem but if not I don't want to waste $50 either plus deal with downtime.

 

[Silica]

I talked with the Time Warner cable card expert. He suggested testing just a single card and also sent me a link to a TiVo cable card debug web page. The cable card debug information didn't apply to my situation since I can receive all channels.

I tried just one card, and it didn't make a difference.

I also tried connecting the modulated channel 4 output of my Series 2 TiVo to the cable input of my series 3 TiVo. I could view channel 4 on the series 3 but it still suffered the same performance problem. With this test, I was able to completely isolate the series 3 from the Time Warner cable but still provide a cable signal. I played a recording on the series 2 and could watch it on the series 3. It still had the performance problem once the cable was connected.

The Time Warner cable card expert didn't have any other ideas other than trying to "clear and delete". I plan to give it a try after watching one more show. He said they would usually replace their own cable box once they reach the same point I am at with the series 3 TiVo.

I think it is a hardware problem. I'll give the clear and delete and try but I'm not optimistic. An exchange is in my future.

 

[rtmoore4]

I have the exact same problem and I have now all but confirmed this is a hardware problem. I've tried four different CableCards now and they all do it. Plus, when the box is tuned to digital stations (not HD, just digital), I get really bad pixelation. I had a Comcast line tech come out who verified signal was fine, both on his measuring device and on a test STB he brought out. FYI, when the TiVo locks up on HD, it often reboots itself, sometimes getting stuck in a constant reboot cycle until I pull the cable out of the back.

When the line tech didn't find anything wrong, I went to Comcast's retail store and picked up one of their new STB units (the one with the M-Card CableCard in it), and set it right beside the TiVo. It has no problems at all. I only did this to prove to TiVo support that it isn't a signal problem and the unit really does have issues. With that proof in hand, and a 3-way call between TiVo and Comcast, I got them to agree to RMA my box, of course with the $50 fee. As an aside, is it really a one-year warranty if I have to pay to get their broken box replaced? Doesn't seem quite right to me.

I went ahead and got an RMA done and the new S3 box does not have the "freeze on HD" problem, even though I am using the exact same two CableCards that were in the other TiVo unit. I think that makes it pretty clear this is a hardware problem. The only other possibility is that there is some software version difference between the two units. I'm going to check that out tonight.

Unfortunately, my new S3 has two new problems I've never seen before. 720p fixed video output shows wavy lines on the screen (even on the TiVo menus) and really bad audio static whenever HD video is displayed on the screen (SD video, including SD commercials on an HD channel don't do it). I guess I have to get an RMA for my RMA. I wonder if they will try to charge me another $50?

 

[Silica]

rtmoore4,

Thanks for adding your experience. In the back of my mind I have been concerned about an RMA box having a failure (conveniently after the so called 1 year warranty). My series 2 has been a great unit. It has just recently started to show a few problems, but if it dies after 6 years, I'll be OK with it. Having a much more expensive series 3 die within a year is unsettling. I have a lifetime subscription transferred to the series 3 and want the box to work for many, many years.

I have wondered about software differences also. The series 3 appears to have an overwhelmed processor when a cable signal is present. It could be hardware causing an interrupt or some software handling routine gone wild. I wish I could debug the problem a that level but I just don't have the tools and don't want to void the warranty.

There is supposedly a way to rollback the software to a previous release that's still on the hard drive. I haven't investigated that option but it would be interesting to see if the behavior changed. Maybe it's one more step I can try after the "clear and delete".

If I recall correctly, I have version 8.3 installed which was installed in late May.

 

[rtmoore4]

There is supposedly a way to rollback the software to a previous release that's still on the hard drive.

That would be great to try. Can you give me a link to something that explains how to do that? I just did a search on the forums and didn't find anything. Some folks said it would be neat if that was an option, but nobody seemed to have any suggestions about just HOW to do it.

 

[Goofball]

I had this same issue, tried a bunch of different things. End result was that the hard drive in my S3 was FUBAR. Started out the same way as you. Locking up only on HD channels and being REALLY REALLY slow responding to remote button presses. Everything I did to fix it made it worse. This included booting with the CableCards removed,etc. Eventually just booting with an input connected locked it up like Fort Knox. I even tried swapping the OS partitions and reinstalling using the kickstart codes to no avail.

I finally pulled the drive and hooked it up to a PC with SATA and ran the hard drive manufacturer diagnostics on it. Failed that almost immediately with bad sectors that were unrecoverable. Ended up buying a new 500GB drive and cloning only the OS portion of the old drive over. Lost all my recordings but fixed the S3 and kept everything else. The side benefit is that I have twice as much recording space now too.

My S3 was out of warranty when this happened and the wife was *****ing about not having a working TiVo in the living room so the 500GB drive replacement was the quickest fix I could come up with. This was back in mid May and my S3 is still ticking right along on the new drive with nary a hiccup (knock on wood).

I used the mfslive CD to copy my OS if anyone else is interested in trying it out. The download site has instructions (use Google). It is not for the faint of heart or for people who don't have quite a bit of basic PC hardware and software skills.

If you can copy the OS part of your old drive with mfslive or something similar you will retain all of your settings, thumbs ratings, CableCard paring information, etc. YMMV trying to copy based on how badly damaged the old drive has become.

If you don't feel comfortable but want a quick fix one of the Tivo Community Store or WeaKnees Series 3 preloaded drives should take care of you but you will have to set up all season passes and everything again.

 

[rtmoore4]

Well, I checked, and sure enough there is a software difference between the two units. My RMA replacement unit does NOT have 8.3. It has 8.0.1. While this certainly isn't definitive proof the new software is causing these issues, it does add another point of reference that a perectly working S3 unit (for about the last six months) started misbehaving right about the time 8.3 got released.

If I could just get the new unit to upgrade to 8.3 before it goes back, then I could get yet another data point. I don't think that is going to happen, though, since the new box doesn't even show authorized with TiVo yet. Does anyone know how long the RMA process takes to switch the Service number over on a replacement DVR to the new unit?

 

[furry_4skin]

I have been having the same problems as everyone else, pixelation, freezing, TiVo doesn't respond to remote. I don't get HBO, but it freezes and restarts when I try to watch any HD channels "Live". It works ok, a little sluggish, on SD channels but it doesn't crash. Has anyone tried clearing and deleting everything and seeing if that works? I would but I don't want to lose the movies I bought off Amazon Unbox.

 

[rcr2]

See another thread here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=359490

I have the exact same problems. My version is 8.3.1-01-2-648

I'm more convinced now than ever that a software update has done something, for people to suddenly experience this problem all within a week or two of each other.

 

[Silica]

After being gone for a week long business trip, I'm back and looking at my S3 again. I tried "clear and delete" last night which wiped out all settings including cable cards settings within the S3.

The problem still exists even though I told guided setup that I did not have any cable cards. When the cable is connected, the S3 slows to a crawl. After the cable is removed, the S3 speeds up (after playing its 'live' video buffer). The problem occurred even with analog channels like channel 3.

The comments from Goofball were very helpful to know that the problem could be resolved by replacing the hard drive. I'm suspecting that the S3 starts recording 'live' programs whenever a signal is present on the cable input. The recording would require hard drive operation with both writing and reading. The reading of the disk would be required for viewing Live TV since it is really a slightly delayed version of the input signal (after recording). If the cable is disconnected, the signal is lost and the S3 probably recoginizes that it is pointless to record if no signal is present. With no signal, the hard drive does not need to be accessed. This is the only possible explanation that I can understand which would explain why a hard drive failure would be connected to connecting/disconnecting the cable.

I'm ready to send my S3 for exchange. If the problem occurs again after the warranty period, I feel better to know that I can replace the hard drive to resolve the problem versus some other unique hardware in the S3.

 

[rcr2]

I'm still not convinced about the hard drive failure, given the sudden blossoming of the problem for so many people all at once.

That being said, my RMA (factory refurbished, which annoys me a bit they didn't send a new one) unit came yesterday and I hooked it all up. Comcast refused to re-authorize the cards without a truck roll, although I was able to convince the new help desk person on the other end to enter my new host ID's, which seems to have given me all the channels, even though the cards don't show CP Auth.

HOWEVER - the software version is back to 8.0, and I am having the Scientific Atlantic card problem, where the cards suddenly think they aren't authorized and go to the error screen.

Let's see if the tech tomorrow hits the cards with the right authorization and when I get updated to 8.3 (sometime in the next millennium) that the HD crash problem doesn't happen again.

 

[JBR]

I had similar problems beginning yesterday, and wanted to share my experience:

Tivo is a Series 3 replacement for the original, and went into service on July 2nd. On July 4th, it was updated to the current 8.3xx-648 system. Using Comcast with 2 cablecards.

Yesterday, turned on unit, and it kept on rebooting. This was the first time I had tried to program two HD programs at the same time, FWIW. I started digging around these threads, and removed cablecards and rebooted. After some futzing around, I concluded that when a high definition channel was selected for either tuner, the performance of the menus was largely unresponsive and the HD picture was pixelated with drop out audio (unusable).

I tried a single cablecard, and had the same results. Ultimately, I was able to 'fix' the problem by changing both tuners to SDTV channels (either analog or digital), and telling my TIVO I didn't receive any of the HD channels.

The next experiment, today, was to hook up the antenna to see if HD through the antenna would work. I went through guided setup again, and upon completion, scanned through several channels. the antenna HD channels also slowed the system down, although apparently not as badly as the cable HD did. Then I landed on an SD channel, and had the same problems there.

I rebooted the system and pulled the cablecards, and told the system that all I had was the antenna. Guided setup went through the initial download of channel information just fine, and then when it went to get the guide information, it locked up at that point. I assume that's because once it got the channel information, it could tune into a channel, and the slowness started.

Rebooted again, and went back to cablecards so at least I can record SDTV. I guess the next step is to call TIVO support on Monday, and get another replacement. However, I think my testing has established:

1. You can run 3.1 successfully (for almost a month) until the slowness problem starts.

2. It seems to be related to viewing HD channels.

3. It doesn't seem to be related to cablecard config, since the problem occurs when only an OTA source is used.

I hope this helps folks with similar problems. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[DocNo]

3. It doesn't seem to be related to cablecard config, since the problem occurs when only an OTA source is used.

Well, until I saw this I was going to suggest that the next time a tech came out to your house that you have your signal checked. I was getting lots of noise from a cheap radio shack splitter I had forgotten about, and my overall signal was also weak. I was enough to prevent my Cable Cards from authorizing, and also causing glitches on the HD stations for the one Cable Card that was partially working.

One positive side effect - my internet speed doubled after he was done helping me clean my signal up.