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According to Spock, the events of this story take place nine months after the accident that would have incapacitated Pike and provided Kirk the opportunity to take over as captain of the Enterprise. His personality wouldn't have changed so drastically in such a short period of time. Hopefully in time the actor will grow into the character.
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IIRC in Balance of Terror, the Romulans didn't have FTL drive though. I didn't notice anything about that here, especially when an entire armada of Romulans blipped in in an instant.
 

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I just watched and really enjoyed the episode. I hadn't remembered any of Balance of Terror. I haven't watched TOS in a long time. So, I just went back and skimmed through the TOS episode. They used some of the same dialogue that TOS used, which I thought was a nice touch. I did like that Kirk in TOS called out the bigotry directly. Pike didn't. Also, Kirk was very serious in TOS for the whole episode, so the SNW Kirk didn't seem far off from that.

Yoeman Rand was touching side by side with Kirk when they had the weapon fire chasing them. I think he had his arm around her to comfort her fear. Women were definitely portrayed differently back then.
 

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As with most of you, I loved this episode... it was a great telling of an "alternate version of Balance of Terror." And I also found the actor attempting to portray Kirk lacking in swagger/charisma/chemistry or something of that ilk. And I'm assuming that this "future episode" took place in the same time frame as the original TOS Balance of Terror episode. So Kirk, while not captain of the Enterprise, as Pike still had command of NCC-1701, would be the same age as the James Kirk we knew from TOS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
IIRC in Balance of Terror, the Romulans didn't have FTL drive though. I didn't notice anything about that here, especially when an entire armada of Romulans blipped in in an instant.
I just rewatched BoT and that one ship didn’t have FTL, but that could possibly be explained by the plasma weapon and cloak. There was no mention of other Romulan ships lacking FTL drives. As such it’s not an inconsistency.

What was an inconsistency is that here the praetor was a woman, while in BoT the praetor was referred to as “him”. I don’t think there can be two praetors so that was a goof.
 

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I just rewatched BoT and that one ship didn’t have FTL, but that could possibly be explained by the plasma weapon and cloak. There was no mention of other Romulan ships lacking FTL drives. As such it’s not an inconsistency.
I mean, they HAVE to have FTL. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to have an empire spanning multiple star systems.
 

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I'll need to watch "The Menagerie" again but I don't recall that the accident lead directly to Kirk taking command of Enterprise. IIRC, Pike was promoted to "Fleet Captain" and Kirk took over for him. I think the dialog was along the lines of "Only met him once".
It was mentioned in The Menagerie about a ruptured baffle plate incident on a ship w/cadets that caused Pike to be in that whee chair, being able to answer only yes or no.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Menagerie,_Part_I_(episode) sounds right:
"Kirk insists that Spock received the urgent request from the former commander of the Enterprise, Fleet Captain Pike. Mendez is surprised that Kirk does not know the news about Captain Pike and leads them to the medical section, explaining that, during an inspection tour of a cadet vessel, one of the baffle plates ruptured. Pike removed the cadets who were still alive, severely exposing himself to delta rays. "

We never saw anything else explaining that in TOS. Then, apparently, a second pilot was done w/almost the entire cast (from The Cage) replaced: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Where_No_Man_Has_Gone_Before_(episode).

In Discovery, they actually showed the incident and Pike seeing himself in the wheelchair. It was once he chose the time crystal which sealed his fate.

They've flashed back to that a few times in SNW but I don't recall how much they showed of that sequence they showed vs. in Disco.
 

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Pike's efforts for a peaceful resolution were seen as weakness by the Romulans, which they felt meant they could win a war against the Federation. In Balance of Terror, Kirk didn't show that weakness, so the Romulans decided to keep honoring the peace treaty.
Pike was right though.
Peace was the way.
He was right.....


but at the wrong time.


Fascinating episode and fairly clever.
(In spite of them hand waving away the fact that in the original Balance of Terror, Kirk and Spock were stunned that a cloaking device even existed.)

I did miss Hikaru Sulu though.
And the Old Centurion that the Commander confided in.

I'll agree with the other that Paul Wesley didn't show the requisite amount of "Kirk Charisma" so James T doesn't come across as well.
And I'm not even going to harp on the fact that the Farragut was previously classified as a Constitution Class vessel in the TOS Writer's Bible.

I also felt like this episode continued the trend of shortchanging Una/Number One this season.

So, in total we have this season:

1 absolute stinker
2 meh episodes.
5 decent to good ones.
2 Stellar ones.

Not bad but could be a better writing average.
I'll still take this over Discovery any day.

Keeping my fingers crossed for Season 2 and hope they can work out some of the writing kinks.
 

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I've been thinking about Kirk's presence in season two. Why wound he be there? If they're going to such lengths to preserve this timeline, and Kirk and Pike don't know each other, there's no reason for him to be part of SNW.
 

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Yeah, to maintain continuity, Kirk and Pike can't meet in the "present" timeline.

Since we see La'an serving on his ship in this episode, I'm thinking he might be involved in her search for the family of the young girl with the Gorn last episode. That way, he can have a prominent role without needing to interact with the Enterprise.
 
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I've been thinking about Kirk's presence in season two. Why wound he be there? If they're going to such lengths to preserve this timeline, and Kirk and Pike don't know each other, there's no reason for him to be part of SNW.
The only time James Kirk meets Pike in SNW is in an alternate timeline, on a date after he would have met Pike the invalid in "The Menagerie" in the original timeline.
 

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Too many responses to quote everyone...

Pike's accident wasn't what led to Kirk taking command of the Enterprise. The transfer was never covered in canon, but Kirk does say in The Menagerie that he met Pike when the transfer happened (and Pike was promoted). Since Kirk isn't aware of the accident that nearly killed Pike and left him in the chair, Pike was obviously up and around at that point.

While yes, the "only meeting once" is canon, I wouldn't be too upset if that got overlooked in season 2 (as long as it's for a good reason). But considering how well SNW has been keeping to core Pike canon, I'd be surprised if they did meet (or at least meet in a way that Kirk realizes it).

The Romulan ship not traveling at warp is more likely because of the power needed to maintain its cloak, rather than because the ship wasn't warp capable. It's never discussed, so it's a little bit of head canon, but Trek has been somewhat consistent (especially in TOS crew's time) that cloaked ships usually aren't cloaked while at warp. So the Romulans chose to stay invisible and slowly make their way back to the Neutral Zone.

Someone mentioned the impact on losing his ship and a lot of his crew on Kirk--I hadn't really thought about it, but they did just gloss over that, didn't they? Kirk suffered a huge loss, and then he's on the Enterprise working along side Pike like nothing happened.
 

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Hey all, just found this thread accidentally. Been a forum member for a long time but never posted much (if at all?)

So, I finally added Paramount+ streaming as I wanted to catch up on all the new/recent ST series. I am a TOS veteran, having grown up in the 60's and 70's and then watched the various spinoff series and movies up through Enterprise (a few years after it finished, when it hit syndication), then fell off. SNW really piqued my interest, so I ante'ed up.

Being a bit of a purist, I tend to watch the new casts with a critical eye, but I have to say I've enjoyed Enterprise, and now SNW. As long as the spirit of TOS is maintained, or even built upon, I'm good with it. I read through this thread from the start, and agree with alot of the viewpoints and critiques. I liked this final S1 episode, although I don't remember anything about any Klingon time crystal from TOS, but what the hey. I thought you always had to slingshot around a star to time travel. ;)

With that said, I liked the way the Kirk character was written in, but I didn't like Wesley as that character - I didn't think he captured Kirk's swagger and ace-in-the-hole MO properly, as others have mentioned. I do really like Anson Mount as Pike, he totally has the Kirk thing going on, but tempered and more thoughtful. Also like the culinary hobby thing, but I think they're going to it a bit too often- makes it seem like being a Starship captain is a walk in the park, and you have plenty of time for socialization and hobbies. I very much like Ethan Peck as the young Spock, I think he's nailing it. I hated that they killed off Hemmer in the Gorn episode- I thought he was a REALLY interesting character- but like the way they've made the Gorn a real terror and true concern to deal with (although La'an seems to go a bit over the top with the reactions.) Starfleet officers should not lose their sh*t at the mere mention of a topic. Same for Ortegas, although I like her go for it attitude.

Agreed on hoping that they work out the writing kinks- the episodes seem to jump around alot, or maybe I just got used to the Enterprise series' episode to episode carryovers? Looking forward to S2.
 

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As long as the spirit of TOS is maintained, or even built upon, I'm good with it.
You didn't mention Discovery (STD), but your statement above, that I wholeheartedly agree with, tells me that you wouldn't care for it. STD definitely doesn't maintain the spirit of TOS, or anything that Gene Roddenberry would want his name attached to.

As for "writing kinks", I believe you'll find as you continue to explore the latest crop of ST's, they're not just "kinks". Unfortunately, they seem to be systemic, apparently because the writers being employed today just aren't mature enough -- or maybe, not intelligent enough -- to write the kind of real science fiction that you and I grew up with.

As I watch the current shows and listen to the dialogue, I can picture in my mind the millennials who wrote it -- stereotypically self-absorbed, obsessed with "feelings", and in general, just not projecting maturity.

One small example of lack of intelligence -- the fact that they think that Spock pronouncing "the" as "thee" somehow makes him seem smarter. I'm surprised they didn't also give him glasses to complete the stupid conceit.

But, yes, SNW is definitely better than STD, and somewhat better than Picard, though I enjoyed that more than most, apparently.
 

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You didn't mention Discovery (STD), but your statement above, that I wholeheartedly agree with, tells me that you wouldn't care for it. STD definitely doesn't maintain the spirit of TOS, or anything that Gene Roddenberry would want his name attached to.

As for "writing kinks", I believe you'll find as you continue to explore the latest crop of ST's, they're not just "kinks". Unfortunately, they seem to be systemic, apparently because the writers being employed today just aren't mature enough -- or maybe, not intelligent enough -- to write the kind of real science fiction that you and I grew up with.

As I watch the current shows and listen to the dialogue, I can picture in my mind the millennials who wrote it -- stereotypically self-absorbed, obsessed with "feelings", and in general, just not projecting maturity.

One small example of lack of intelligence -- the fact that they think that Spock pronouncing "the" as "thee" somehow makes him seem smarter. I'm surprised they didn't also give him glasses to complete the stupid conceit.

But, yes, SNW is definitely better than STD, and somewhat better than Picard, though I enjoyed that more than most, apparently.
Aside from mainly wanting to see if SNW was something I'd enjoy, I figured I'd also check out the Discovery and Picard series (after SNW S1 ended), which I haven't seen any of to this point. I am a Michelle Yeoh and Patrick Stewart fan, so thought I'd at least give them a chance.

I hear you on the new crop of writers, but I disagree that they are all bad. My problem with writers in general these days is the obsession with interpersonal DRAMA, i.e. conflict, emotional outbursts, unbridled competition and such for it's own sake and to the exclusion of the real theme. I refuse to tolerate that, much less pay for it. I've been pleasantly surprised that SNW has managed to avoid that, while still fleshing out the characters with good, solid interaction that helps the viewer get to know them. For example, the developing relationship between Uhura and Hemmer- which now, sadly, is lost. Exploration of the unknown in any time or place is an exercise in courage, and the dynamics and reactions of a crew of people in such situations are what makes it entertaining and thought provoking. BUT, it shouldn't be all about the relationships, they have to support and flavor the storylines without overrunning them.

I'd love to see them take some chances on stories, get edgy (read:controversial) and explore some of the really far out SF themes that exist in literature- the way Roddenberry did with Philip K. Dick and Harlan Ellison stories of TOS time. Fingers crossed. 🤞
 

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Couldn't agree more, with just about everything you said -- especially the interpersonal DRAMA (I tend to refer to it as FEELINGS).

Discovery has had innumerable scenes in which there's a proverbial "clock is ticking" situation, with impending doom all around, minutes or seconds to act to save themselves if not the entire galaxy...and they stop...to talk about their FEELINGS. Although I didn't mean to imply that all the writers are bad or that all the writing is bad, this is what I meant about a certain lack of intelligence on their part. I mean, it defies common sense that anyone, not to mention, trained officers and crew, would stop in the middle of an emergency and...emote. And delve into their childhood fears. And have overwrought expressions of empathy, when, back here in reality, someone would be slapping someone across the cheek and yelling at them to "snap out of it". It's just so ludicrous...and yet they've done it repeatedly. It's a really stupid error, so I can't imagine that they're very intelligent people. And of course, I've been blaming the writers, but what about the people in charge? How does it get by the director(s) and producers? It boggles.

Yes, as you said, characters need good, solid interaction. I mean, that's what made TOS so good -- the interaction between Kirk, Spock, and Bones. But they wrote it intelligently, using common sense! It just infuriates me that these people have this obvious much bigger budget and they squander it.

Anyhoo, I think you'll like Michelle Yeoh in STD, but you'll have to be patient for many episodes -- it took the show runners a while to realize what they were missing after they killed her off.
 
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