[dougdingle]

Absolutely, if you want the best playback experience. Most streaming apps SUCK compared to playing a show from Tivo. Quickplay has been invaluable for me, frex, and I think that only some YouTube apps offer it across all streamers.

I agree that the ballistics in most streaming apps are garbage compared to any TiVo. And that the TiVo remote is, quite possibly, the best remote design ever seen.

But then there's the fact that proper streaming 4K images and multichannel sound are so vastly superior to the compressed to hell twenty year old codec HD crap that cable sends out, it's no contest at all if you want high quality pictures and sound. Spectrum's 10 Mb/s MPEG content is just incredible trash. That's not TiVo's fault, but in the end that's what TiVo users get to watch in many markets.

 

[sroberts225]

August 22? Was that in writing or in speaking to someone from Spectrum?

I've got EATEL (now REV) as my cable provider... local only to south Louisiana... I rec'd a notice from the USPS and talked to a rep on the phone...

 

[cwoody222]

I've got EATEL (now REV) as my cable provider... local only to south Louisiana... I rec'd a notice from the USPS and talked to a rep on the phone...

Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?

 

[302481]

Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?

IPTV isn't the reason since Spectrum isn't really doing that yet. Spectrum's upload speed boost changes result in a "high-split" that will walk on cable card frequencies. That's the reason for the emails. It's all explained in reports posted earlier in the thread.

 

[cwoody222]

IPTV isn't the reason since Spectrum isn't really doing that yet. Spectrum's upload speed boost changes result in a "high-split" that will walk on cable card frequencies. That's the reason for the emails. It's all explained in reports posted earlier in the thread.

I was asking sroberts about his experience with Rev.

 

[Hamstring]

Yes..

I mean they have online ones with 4K etc. I just don’t use mine that much. Having a big sale soon. Lifetime on all.

 

[chiguy50]

. . . proper streaming 4K images and multichannel sound are so vastly superior to the compressed to hell twenty year old codec HD crap that cable sends out, it's no contest at all if you want high quality pictures and sound.

Amen to that. Even comparing HD streams to HD programming on linear cable is no contest. After watching Better Call Saul episodes on VOD at AMC+, the recordings on my TiVo from the Comcast AMC channel look like they were filmed through a cheesecloth.

 

[slowbiscuit]

And what? I said Tivo will do whatever it decides to do.

Yes, but Spectrum being a monopoly has nothing to do with it.

 

[NashGuy]

Are they going to add a Roku Channels app?

My guess is that Channels does not plan to ever develop a version of their app for Roku. They launched back in 2015 with just an Apple TV app and now, nearly 7 years later, there's still no Roku app.

My understanding is that Roku has always been a more difficult platform to code apps for. If you code an app for iPhone, then it's very easy to tweak that codebase to run on Apple TV (or vice versa). If you code an app for Android phones, then it's very easy to tweak that codebase to run on both Google's Android TV and Amazon Fire TV. And those just happen to be the five platforms that Channels supports with their app. They're a small company, so they have to be careful about how they devote their time. I guess they just don't believe that spending the time and money on developing and supporting a Roku app would bring them enough additional business to justify the cost.

 

[dianebrat]

I mean they have online ones with 4K etc. I just don’t use mine that much. Having a big sale soon. Lifetime on all.

How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them?
Therein lies the rub, even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.

 

[chiguy50]

How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them?
Therein lies the rub, even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.

What makes you think that you can't access Comcast's cloud DVR away from home? (ETA: Oh, I see now that you mean take with you if you leave that provider. Sorry for the misunderstanding!)

 

[NashGuy]

How do you have access to those when you leave that subscription/cloud service and stop paying them?
Therein lies the rub, even if Comcast offered an unlimited cloud DVR, I can't take it with me, my Tivo's have been connected to at least 3 different providers, I always have access to things I recorded 3 providers ago, and I can save them if I really want to in 90% of the cases, that's not the same with an online product.

Yes, the days of being able to build your own personal library of recordings that you can keep indefinitely are coming to an end. It was easy to do with VHS, became more difficult but still do-able with the TiVo DVR, but in the streaming era of cloud DVR and on-demand titles, it's impossible. (Well, Channels DVR combined with streaming TV-everywhere channels is a loophole that still makes it possible, at least for now...)

 

[sroberts225]

Did they say they’re simply stopping to support cable cards? (If so, why?) Or are they switching to an incompatible system like IPTV?

the only explanation I got was their new system (software, hardware...?) was not compatible with cable cards...
they insisted I accept two set-top boxes to continue viewing... I turned them down, of course...
just signed up for YouTubeTV... good selection of channels and unlimited (DVR) cloud storage of my favorite programs...

 

[Microman66]

This explains a lot. Guy is pretty good.

 

[slowbiscuit]

We got screwed when the FCC didn't have the balls to require an IPTV access standard. You'd think this is what gov't is supposed to do (i.e. standards) but you'd be wrong, although somehow it was perfectly ok to do ATSC 3.0.

 

[Johnny Stigler]

https://www.nexttv.com/news/charter-cuts-off-cablecard-support?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=241BFF69-1938-421F-A5A7-DCA24C4C53CF&utm_content=2884CDF8-2DC5-41EF-913F-5F409CC12035&utm_term=b6f7d907-0585-46db-b760-ebcafea2193a

Charter to Cut Off CableCARD Support

By Daniel Frankel published 1 day ago

Network upgrades will render already obsolete cable-TV security standard utterly useless for the small number of loyal cable customers still using it in their TiVo and SiliconDust DVRs

I know this has been discussed but here is an article from NEXT TV NEWSLETTER
JS

 

[NashGuy]

What's interesting to me is that Charter seems to be implying that the only thing ending anytime soon is support for CableCARD --i.e. that they do NOT plan to get rid of QAM cable TV more broadly, and switch over to IPTV-only, as their Alaskan "cousin" GCI recently did in order to also make high-split upgrades to their data network. Charter says that the reason their high-split upgrades will eliminate CableCARD support is because it will eliminate the specific upper frequency that CableCARDs use for OOB (out-of-band) upstream communication. But they also raise the possibility that they may be able to simply shift that OOB frequency even higher after the high-split upgrade. In other words, Charter is saying "We may be able to bring support for CableCARD back in the relatively near future after initially dumping it."

While HDHomeRun CableCARD devices can apparently be software updated in order to use a hypothetical new higher OOB frequency in the future, it's unclear if that's possible for some, or any, TiVo DVRs. Frankly, I can't see why Charter would even bother to try and re-instate CableCARD support, given how few customers even use it. Based on the FCC's last public release of the numbers of CableCARDs in use a year or two ago, I calculated that they represented only about 0.5% of all eligible cable TV subscribers in the nation.

Perhaps Charter is simply raising that possibility to soften the blow in terms of the media coverage that they're getting now over yanking support for TiVo? As I say, it don't really see how it's in their economic interest to keep CableCARD alive, especially if it's not possible for TiVo DVRs, only other less-popular CableCARD devices such as HDHomeRun tuners.

And as I say, I have to wonder how much longer Charter will even support QAM TV more broadly. My guess has been that once they start getting big shipments of those new 4K HDR streaming devices in stock, from their new joint venture with Comcast -- which isn't expected until next year -- they'll go market-by-market handing and mailing those out to customers in order to get all their Spectrum cable TV subs switched over to accessing it via their IPTV app and then shut up QAM TV completely. Guess we'll see what unfolds in Charter-land next year...

 

[NashGuy]

We got screwed when the FCC didn't have the balls to require an IPTV access standard. You'd think this is what gov't is supposed to do (i.e. standards) but you'd be wrong, although somehow it was perfectly ok to do ATSC 3.0.

There was a half-hearted attempt by the Obama FCC to do that -- it was dubbed the "Unlock the Box" initiative -- but it was complicated and of course got major pushback from the pay TV operators. And in order to be fair, I suppose it would have had to apply not just to multi-channel pay TV services (i.e. "cable TV") but also on-demand services like Netflix and Prime Video. In other words, it would have offered a way for consumers to pick whatever hardware, with its particular software and aggregating user interface, they wanted to serve as a front-end for their various video subscription content to flow into.

But the rationale for CableCARD was never mainly about choice of software and UI but rather simply to offer consumers a way to use their chosen retail hardware device, i.e. to let us pick a box we could own rather than be forced to rent whatever crappy box the cable operator pushed on us. Pay video operators argued to the FCC that this was now possible thanks to the rise of Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, smart TVs, etc., giving consumers WAY more choice in owned access hardware than we ever had under the CableCARD regime (and with way more participation from consumers). The future, the operators argued, was through operator designed and supplied apps which would support a range of the most popular retail hardware platforms.

And ultimately, the FCC found that argument hard to disagree with.

 

[dougdingle]

What's interesting to me is that Charter seems to be implying that the only thing ending anytime soon is support for CableCARD --i.e. that they do NOT plan to get rid of QAM cable TV more broadly, and switch over to IPTV-only, as their Alaskan "cousin" GCI recently did in order to also make high-split upgrades to their data network. Charter says that the reason their high-split upgrades will eliminate CableCARD support is because it will eliminate the specific upper frequency that CableCARDs use for OOB (out-of-band) upstream communication. But they also raise the possibility that they may be able to simply shift that OOB frequency even higher after the high-split upgrade. In other words, Charter is saying "We may be able to bring support for CableCARD back in the relatively near future after initially dumping it."

While HDHomeRun CableCARD devices can apparently be software updated in order to use a hypothetical new higher OOB frequency in the future, it's unclear if that's possible for some, or any, TiVo DVRs. Frankly, I can't see why Charter would even bother to try and re-instate CableCARD support, given how few customers even use it. Based on the FCC's last public release of the numbers of CableCARDs in use a year or two ago, I calculated that they represented only about 0.5% of all eligible cable TV subscribers in the nation.

Perhaps Charter is simply raising that possibility to soften the blow in terms of the media coverage that they're getting now over yanking support for TiVo? As I say, it don't really see how it's in their economic interest to keep CableCARD alive, especially if it's not possible for TiVo DVRs, only other less-popular CableCARD devices such as HDHomeRun tuners.

And as I say, I have to wonder how much longer Charter will even support QAM TV more broadly. My guess has been that once they start getting big shipments of those new 4K HDR streaming devices in stock, from their new joint venture with Comcast -- which isn't expected until next year -- they'll go market-by-market handing and mailing those out to customers in order to get all their Spectrum cable TV subs switched over to accessing it via their IPTV app and then shut up QAM TV completely. Guess we'll see what unfolds in Charter-land next year...

The sad part is that if the current Spectrum app is any indication, their streaming video quality is going to be the same compressed to hell garbage that they're sending down the cable wire now. For people used to HD streams from real providers, their stuff looks like poorly upscaled standard def.

People are getting acclimated to high quality images from their streaming suppliers. If they don't up their game, Charter and Spectrum will become the new low rez side channels. Without the monopoly status they've enjoyed for decades, their TV offering will sink without a trace. They have no idea how to compete, and even less than that on how to compete on image quality. They are quickly going to settle on being just another ISP where in many areas they still have their monoply (but not for much longer).

 

[random_pawn00]

Yes, but Spectrum being a monopoly has nothing to do with it.

Once again, Tivo will do whatever it wishes to do.