[shrike4242]

Exactly. Look at what Alaska's largest cable operator, GCI, is doing right now. And keep in mind that GCI is essentially a sibling of Charter, because they're majority owned by the same group that is Charter's largest shareholder (i.e. John Malone). In their largest market, Anchorage, GCI shut down QAM cable TV service at the end of April, forcing any customers still on that platform to migrate to their newer IPTV platform, Yukon TV (or drop GCI-provided TV service completely). Once QAM TV is shut down, a TiVo DVR (or any other CableCARD device) can no longer be used with that TV provider. GCI's QAM shutdown was done to allow the company to begin high-split upgrades to their DOCSIS network in Anchorage this summer. Their plan is to do this in all of their markets across the state between now and 2025, at which point they'll circle back to Anchorage and begin upgrading the DOCSIS network from version 3.1 to 4.0, which will allow even faster download and upload speeds.

Combine that with the fact that Charter just this spring invested a large sum to buy half of Comcast's Flex streaming video platform so that they could use it to provide 4K streaming devices to their own broadband customers starting in 2023. This tells me that, at least in some markets, we're going to see Charter shut down QAM cable TV and implement high-split DOCSIS in 2023. At that point, Spectrum TV will only be available in those markets via streaming (IPTV and/or OTT). And they'll use Flex streaming boxes/sticks as their preferred solution for those customers to access not just their own Spectrum TV app but also other video apps which can be downloaded and billed for through the Comcast/Charter app store (e.g. HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+, Peacock, etc.).

My understanding is that Charter WorldBox set-top boxes (like Comcast X1 boxes) are hybrid IPTV/QAM devices, so they could theoretically still access Spectrum TV service even in areas where QAM TV has been shut down. But, of course, CableCARD devices like TiVo will not be able to make that leap.

So the bottom line here is that you should not expect your TiVo DVR to work with Spectrum TV by the end of 2023. Depending on where you live, it's certainly possible that it will continue to work with Spectrum TV, because (just as with GCI), it will take Spectrum some time to work their away around their entire footprint doing high-split upgrades. So you might get lucky and be one of the last ones to see Charter shut down your local QAM cable TV service in maybe 2025 or 2026. But there's no question that it's coming.

Thank you for this post. This was what I was trying to do research on to figure out how Charter is dumping Tivo / CableCard support and this is exactly what I was looking for. I assumed that QAM support was likely the issue, though the Charter reps I've spoke to over the phone don't have clue one about what changes are coming, when they're coming and how likely my Tivo EDGE units are going to be boat anchors as far as Charter is concerned. I know we kept hearing about the IPTV bridge option a number of years ago that Charter was working on as a post-CableCard scenario, though we all know where that likely ended up. Having them shift to IPTV makes sense and opens up that bandwidth for DOCSIS 4.0 and beyond.

Since there's no Tivo product that covers ATSC 3.0 yet (or ever), over-the-air support on anything without an ATSC 3.0 tuner is likely to be another line on the horizon that causes the current equipment to be semi-to-completely useless.

The main thing I'm trying to get from Charter is trying to find out the when, so I can plan to be off of them by the time they drop CableCard support. By the end of 2023 could be Jan 1 or Dec 31, so I'd like to get things in order. With AT&T fiber now in my area for 500/500 pricing at the same price as 400/20 Charter service, dropping CableCards makes that a quicker decision to move.

 

[shrike4242]

I said 2023, but actually, back in Jan., Charter's CEO stated that "2022 will increase the number of projects to deploy high splits in our service areas" in order to be able to offer symmetrical gigabit speeds on DOCSIS 3.1. I don't know if/where high-split has been done yet by Charter. I certainly have not read of any specific areas where Charter QAM TV has been shut down and, AFAIK, shutting down QAM TV is a prerequisite for high-split. IDK, maybe that isn't true? Maybe GCI (and others) have found it optimal to shut down QAM TV prior to high-split upgrades but Charter thinks otherwise? But I don't think that's true; unless and until that's proven to be the case, my working assumption is that before Charter implements high split in any large geographic area, that upgrade will be immediately preceded by QAM TV shutdown there.

Here's the article I quote from above:

Charter CEO says it’ll ramp high-split rollouts this year

Charter CEO Tom Rutledge mapped out the operator’s priorities for 2022, unveiling plans to accelerate network upgrades and drop some serious cash on rural expansion proje | Charter CEO Tom Rutledge mapped out the operator’s priorities for 2022, unveiling plans to accelerate network upgrades and...

www.fiercetelecom.com

Now, it's noteworthy that that article was published 1/28/22. And then Charter announced their Flex streaming platform joint venture with Comcast three months later on 4/27/22:

Comcast, Charter Form Joint Venture to Launch Nationwide Streaming Platform

Comcast and Charter Communications, the two biggest cable operators in the U.S., are joining forces in the streaming wars. The two companies announced a 50-50 joint venture to develop and launch a …

variety.com

So it's possible that Charter decided in late winter "Y'know, before we shut down QAM TV in places that will impact a meaningful number of customers, maybe we should wait until we have a next-gen streaming device capable of running our Spectrum TV app (and all popular third-party apps) that we can hand them." And based on the reports from late April, it doesn't sound like Charter is going to be handing out those JV-produced Flex-based streaming devices to their customers until early 2023.

So if I had to guess, I'd say we may only see Charter play around with high-split upgrades in small area tests this year, getting their operational plans perfected so that they're ready to go guns blazing as soon as they have a supply of those new 4K HDR streaming devices ready to hand out like candy to existing and new customers.

Thank you for those article links, most helpful for more information about the upcoming boondoggle.

I would think that Charter would likely to shut down QAM before making the high-split as think if they're so gung-ho to put out these repeating notices to people about CableCards no longer being useful, they're likely to have some plan up the pipeline for making that change with at least tentative dates. I've yet to see any major change with Charter go on planned schedule to date and I've been a Charter customer for around 20 years, ending up at Charter via ATT acquisition of TCI and then Charter picking ATT's cable division. I know the date of 07/07/22 has been in the three emails and the one postal-sent notice for the half-price Apple TV 4K or the 24 months of the Spectrum DVR, so I would certainly hope that they're not pulling the plug on my CableCard use at the end of this coming week.

The first time I called them after the first email, that rep didn't know anything of what was going on save that CableCards couldn't be provided, though they would still be supported. Second rep from my second phone call just echoed what was in the emails + notice, that CableCards would eventually disappear from being supported, though didn't know when that would be. Calling their corporate office ended up as a dead end since the operator just shot me over to regular customer care and not someone with a clue of what is going on with this change. Since St Louis is/was Charter's "backyard", I can assume anything that is done with the QAM removal / high-split might be done here first.

I have followed the development of ATSC 3.0 for years now and have gone from being a "hoper" to a "noper" on it. I doubt that it will ever succeed in being adopted widely enough by consumers to allow it to fully supplant ATSC 1.0. And even if that DID happen, based on what I understand about the length of consumer TV upgrade cycles, I can't see the ATSC 3.0 viewing audience being big enough, and the ATSC 1.0 viewing audience small enough to allow for the full shutdown of any major network affiliates on 1.0 to happen until at least 2030.

I say all this to tell you that while you may find it worthwhile to invest in an ATSC 3.0 OTA DVR, I don't think you have to worry about existing TiVo (ATSC 1.0) OTA DVRs becoming useless (because they're no longer able to receive local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and PBS stations) for many years to come, if ever.

At this point, if my Tivos aren't won't work for Charter any longer, I'll not likely need all of the Edge units I currently have. That would probably be the kick to start working on rolling my own solution as a parallel path for future migration, with anything I'd get would likely have a ATSC 3.0 tuner on-board. CableCards getting phased out across the main cable companies isn't likely a long-term help for Tivo in any way, as I imagine Comcast is going down the same path as Spectrum is in some parallel path.

 

[shrike4242]

After seven emails from Spectrum (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and three postal mailings from Spectrum (June 20, July 11, July 14), it looks like that the CableCard fiasco for my area is going to happen some time next month.

I called over there today after getting the third mailing showing up yesterday and seventh email today. In the conversation I had with this person, they tossed out that I should be "ready" for this change to my CableCards no longer working by August 1st, as it's supposed to happen in my area in August. Last time I checked, that's an entire month and August 1st is 10 days from today's date.

To me, that seems more than a little insane for me to be "ready" that my CableCards might stop working in 10 days' time To say my response was a little irritated might be an understatement. Said rep kept saying repeatedly that the reason they've sent all these emails and all these postal mailings is to make sure I was "ready" for the change. My counterpoint to that flippant point she was making is that I've called them repeatedly to ask when this might happen, this being the sixth call I've made on this issue. This was the only time to date since I started calling on this back in early part of June, was to ask them when this might happen. So, now, we made it to the last 10 days in July and the change is going to happen sometime in August, Which, again, is 10-40 days from now.

Though, as this rep kept telling me, I should be "ready" by August 1st "just in case". She didn't have a firm date, didn't know who had a firm date inside of the entire organization of Spectrum, though I would be "contacted" when the date would be set. My assumption is that I'd get something in the mail / email likely a week at most in advance of the change, so then it would be all the worse without having the "advance" notice I have now.

Yes, I know, a lot of air quotes in this one. I'm in the St. Louis MO area, so I don't know if this is their starting point for the rest of the county, their initial test rollout that they're going to do first and wait a bit to see how the dust settles, no idea. I doubt they're going to put any real scheduling into their plan to make this change, though since it could happen as early as August 1st, I need to make my plans to go have them gone from my usual watching scenario as quickly as possible.

The main irritation I'm going to have with this is having the free streaming options tied to my Spectrum service / account that I have are now going to be shifted around to see how it goes and what has to get paid out of my own pocket. First order of business was to order AT&T Fiber and start with an Internet changeover, which hopefully will work with no issues on the install for Saturday.

So, what I can offer as advice, at least from personal experience, is that when the CableCard drop happens in your area, you may not have as much warning about it as would make sense or would be acceptable for people to make major changes to their TV watching.

 

[shrike4242]

Stop listening to mindless CSR drones who know nothing.

When a date is set it will be clearly communicated.

Not in my past experience with Charter. Communications for large scale changes out here have never been communicated well or with any sense of direction.

 

[shrike4242]

Changes such as “your equipment will cease to function and the service you are paying for will not be able to be received within your home”?

Yes, they’re legally required to notify you of such changes with sufficient notice.

Their claim is that all the emails and letters have been sufficient notice, though of course when the concept of a firm date comes up, that seems to disappear from the conversation as a valid point of contention.

Spectrum TOS page:

https://www.spectrum.com/policies/terms-of-service

General TOS page:

https://www.spectrum.com/policies/residential-general-terms-and-conditions-of-service

Section 1, sub-section c:
c. Amendments; Notices. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, Spectrum may in its sole discretion modify any aspect of the Services or these Terms of Service and will post such changes on www.spectrum.com/policies. Spectrum will provide written notice of any material changes to the Services or these Terms of Service at least 15 days in advance or any longer period required under applicable law by either: (i) sending via mail or hand delivery to Subscriber’s address of record; (ii) e-mailing to Subscriber’s e-mail of record; or (iii) including a message in your monthly billing statement. Subscriber agrees that any one of the foregoing methods of notice constitute sufficient and effective notice under these Terms of Service. If you disagree with a change to these Terms of Service, you have the right to cancel the Services; provided, that your continued use of the Services for more than 30 days after we deliver notice of a change will constitute your acceptance of the change.

They've obviously been sending communications well in advance of 15 days' time with all of the emails and postal mailings, so I'm sure from their legal standpoint, they've done their due diligence. I would hope that when this change actually does get a date, they read their TOS and at least provide the 15 days' notice their TOS says they're supposed to provide.

 

[shrike4242]

Here's the email I got yesterday. I'm in Central KY:
View attachment 73663

This is one of several I've received, plus USPS mailings as well. Also, phone calls from the Cable Card Support number.
They're definitely pummeling us with "dire" warnings.

That's the same info I received via email seven times (June 7, June 14, June 22, July 7, July 11, July 14, July 21) and postal mail three times (June 20, July 11, July 14 paperwork dates). The date for the offer of the discounted Apple TV (which is 32B 2021 4K model) or the receiver keeps shifting as times goes on, though the email received on July 11th had a July 7th expiration date on it, so someone didn't proofread that one once it went out.

The only date I had put to any of it was from my call on Thursday, where the rep on the phone said in August, though I "should be ready for it on August 1st". None of the correspondence have said anything about a date, though this rep said repeatedly that when the change is supposed to happen, I should be getting a notice via email and postal mail with the specific date. I call complete BS on that, since their TOS says that material service changes need at least 15 days notice before taking effect and their "dire warnings" communications and I'm sure their legal department will claim all the emails and postal mailings being done cover them from that perspective.

If I do get something with a "your CableCards will stop working on date 08/xx/22", I'll certainly post it in here for review. My guess is it'll show up in email first before postal mail, though I'm still 50//50 on the assumption I'll get any notice at all of the CableCard support disappearing.

Since they've said they don't want their CableCards back, I wonder if the same applies for the tuning adapters?

 

[shrike4242]

All of the letters and emails I have received have an expiration of Monday 08/11/2022 on the equipment choices. Currently they have been coming for the last several months, and the closer it has gotten to August, the more frequently they have seem to come. Between last week and this week alone I have received 4 separate communications on it plus a phone call on Tuesday from them on it. Since the communications began, I’ve received at least 10 or so letters and emails, but I have lost count now so it may actually be more than that.

Everyone I have talked to from my technician friend to person at our local office to phone representatives in CableCARD support have all said the same thing. It will by August 31st, at the latest, but be prepared as if it might happen on August 1st.

In our case here, that would involve all three of our televisions because our living room has the TiVo with CableCARD/Tuning Adapter combo, and our two bedrooms have Arris Motorola DCX3200-M boxes which are among the ones that still contain the internal embedded CableCARDs. Spectrum popped a surprise replacement of our old Motorola DCH3200 boxes on us in February after sending those same kind of vague letters and emails which started in November 2021. The two boxes just showed up one day at our door from UPS, and I ended up self-installing them then calling to perform the swap then taking the DCH3200’s back to our local office to turn them in, but even though those new DCX3200-M’s were actual Spectrum units, they still were the kind with embedded CableCARDs so they will have to again be replaced with two units of the kind which don’t use embedded CableCARDs.

Nothing has been communicated about Tuning Adapters yet, but since nothing, so far, has said they don’t need to be returned, I’d assume those probably will need to be returned whereas the CableCARDs don’t, and those CableCARDs, I guess, could be kept as a piece of nostalgic history in technology.

If there is any good news here, it is that, if my televisions do go dark, I can still use the Spectrum TV app on my Roku 3 or cast it from my iPhone to my TV and still have all my channels, even the local channels, but I just won’t be able to record anything until the three new boxes are installled.

My latest email shows 08/21/22 for the date of the office for the discounted Apple TV or the free receiver, the latest postal mailed reminder shows 08/15/22 as the end of the discount window.

When I called their retention department to check the date for my bill cut, I asked about TAs being returned since they don't mention them at all in their correspondence and the rep said that they don't need to be returned.

 

[shrike4242]

Reminds me of the late night commercials for things like the veg-o-matic: "So you don't forget, order by midnight tonight!"

I would not be surprised that one will get more notices and offers, especially when they actually actually start the transition (as the reality is that people neither read their email, bills, or USPS letters, so there will be people surprised with the loss of service only after it happens, and not before).

According to USPS Informed Delivery, I have another letter showing up today from Spectrum. No new emails from them since the 21st.

 

[shrike4242]

Same here, fourth postal mailing, dated 07/21/22, arrived yesterday, same deal, with 08/21/22 end date for the promotion.
Eight email arrived earlier today, with an 08/28/22 date for the end of the promotion deal.

Person on the emails is listed as Kathleen Griffin, VP of Marketing. When I check on Spectrum's website for their upper management, she's not listed there:

Executive Leadership Team | Charter Communications

Meet the executive leadership team at Charter Communications, a leading broadband connectivity company and cable operator.

corporate.charter.com

When I called their corporate office initially when this issue happened, I was able to get to an operator, though when I asked to speak with Kathleen Griffin by name, I ended up being put on hold and then dumped into the main customer service queue. Tried a couple of weeks later, the opt-out option on the auto-attendant wouldn't end up with a live person.

 

[shrike4242]

It's not at all surprising she isn't listed on the page in the link you provided. Those are all top management. Everyone on that page with VP in their title is either an "executive VP", a "senior VP", or "senior executive VP". Found a reddit where Kathleen Griffin is mentioned as "VP of Marketing Communications". With titles like that, there's probably a hundred people with VP in their title at her level. Lol

Probably thousands, knowing Spectrum.

 

[shrike4242]

Looks like when the date is actually figured out, we should be getting emails with "Call To Action" in them, which is their terminology for when they sunset devices like old cable boxes, old cable modems and the like.

Since I think that if I call enough times, I might find the one person at Spectrum that has the whole story, though that of course never happens.

Highlights from today's phone call:

• Supposedly there's 10% of the customer base that uses CableCards . My guess is that it's 9.5% cable boxes where they're integrated and the.0.5% are the people with Tivo units, HD HomeRun units and the like.
• When the day actually gets picked, the communications will supposedly change to include the "Call To Action" notice about the CableCard situation being sunset. Supposed to be via postal mail and email, like the current crop of deluge.

No one still knows when the date for the change is, which again, after six weeks+ of emails and postal mailings, someone has to have an idea for when this might happen.

I spoke with someone else who is in the Spectrum footprint, though is right over the river from me in Illinois, who had asked me previously about all this mess with Spectrum and to explain it to them. Which I did and we agreed that the easiest option would be to swap out to go the cable box route. Most of their content is watching via streaming, so going to a cable box would be easiest. They have older Premiere boxes, so they were just going to get the cable boxes from Spectrum to replace their Tivo units, so they called Spectrum about it. When they did, whomever they talked with said they were in a "legacy footprint", the mailings they were getting were sent by mistake and their Tivo units would continue to work.

Guess my next step is to get their account info and call Spectrum on their behalf to find out if that's actually true or not.

 

[shrike4242]

And until the lowest of the low (the CSRs) are told you will never get the whole story. CSRs are the organizational mushrooms (left in the dark and fed crap). They only actually know what the training materials or the screens tell them, and typically not more than a few days in advance of changes (and only then if they need to learn something entirely new to be prepared). Sure, from time to time, you will get someone who heard something from someone from someone, and will be willing to share what they think they know (because being people they want to try to be helpful to get a score of 10 on the survey you get later), but just like a game of telephone, the information eventually shared (whether factual or guesses or absolutely wrong) got mixed into one confusing story. And do far the fat lady has not yet sung (although she does appear to be in the wings).

I'm aware of how CSRs rank in the scheme of things, though as time goes on, eventually, the information will make it to the mushrooms being left in the dark and fed crap. Each time I've called, I've had more information get exposed, though as the repeated item being that next month seems to be when it may happen, when the emails and mailings change from what they are, we'll know when it happens.

I'm continuing on my process to divest from Charter, I have fiber in place in place of my Spectrum connection, my home number with Spectrum is going through a port to a new provider, as well as working on TV options with or without my Tivo units in some part. Assuming my number port happens as it should before my bill cut date, I'll drop Internet and phone service on that date, then see what happens with CableCard use by that timeframe.

 

[shrike4242]

Middle of the month, no "Call To Action" email or postal mailing from Spectrum, just another postal mailing and email like before. Discount deal on the Apple TV and the free cable box / cloud DVR is now out to 09/04/22 for me. Up to 9 emails and 5 postal mailings to date.

 

[shrike4242]

I am in St. Louis. I had a Spectrum technician out today to deal with some internet service issues. To my very pleasant surprise, he was familiar with TiVo and moca and cable cards, so we got into a discussion about what was coming down the pike. He told me that the new high-speed internet service was going to be implemented in Perryville, MO starting in 2 weeks. (For those of you who are unfamiliar, Perryville is in rural southeast MO.) As someone else mentioned, all of the old cable boxes as well as the cable cards will be obsolete. I asked him when he thought it might hit St. Louis, and he said that he doesn't know but what they were told is that Spectrum is bringing in huge contracting companies to work on upgrading the large service areas after Spectrum has done a roll out in the smaller communities. He anticipated it would be end of September for the St. Louis area but couldn't confirm that.

I have not received an email or letter from Spectrum in a week or so, so it will be interesting to see if I get any more.

From what I've been told, as mentioned earlier, you're supposed to get an email and/or mailing that says "Call To Action" on it, which is supposed to be the advance notice for the change coming up the pipeline. If that happens or not, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

I'd be very curious to see what happens with the change for you, if any, when this two week timeframe comes and goes for the change in Internet service.

 

[shrike4242]

At the end of August, no "Call To Action" emails or postal mailings, nor any more of the previous ones we've all seen in the past couple of weeks.

Removed Spectrum Internet and in the same call with Retention to remove the $5 Sports Pack I didn't ask for, the retention rep completely screwed my plan in what should have been a single line-item deletion. Needed a follow-up call with retention to fix it once the tech support rep found what happened and it wasn't a CableCard issue like it first appeared with an incorrect channel map.

Retention rep #2 fixed it to my satisfaction well enough, so time to sit back and wait to see what happens, as the promo they put on the account to get the cost back down to my grandfathered pricing from before is good for a year. All I have left with Charter is TV, no more land line equivalent or Internet.

 

[shrike4242]

Emails and postal mailing starting up again for me, two emails, one on 09/19/22 (which had a date of 07/07/22 for the promo on the free cable box for 24 months or 50% off an Apple TV 4K) and 09/23/22 (with a date of 09/26/22 for the promo), as well as one postal mailing that showed up on 09/22/22 (date of 10/19/22 for the promo).

Still no "Call To Action" emails or postal mailings, CableCards keep working, so it looks like going into October before they do anything yet to neuter them.

 

[shrike4242]

Same here. I am in St Louis. You?

Same here, St. Louis.