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Show updates: canceled, renewed, or ending

439K views 6K replies 257 participants last post by  Malcontent 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Why do you keep posting links to these slideshows? If the information in them were exclusive to this particular media outlet, then I would understand. But it makes no sense to keep linking to these slideshows that contain no exclusive information when you can find the same information presented in a much more user-friendly format on dozens of other websites.

And since, as you stated, you've already posted this same info in other threads, why not just include this link as a post in one of the previous threads rather than creating a duplicate thread about the same topic?
 
#4 ·
Here is the info from the OP's post, courtesy of deslide.clusterfake.net:

Spoilered for length since there are 277 slides:

1: 'Ray Donovan' (Showtime): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
2: 'Elena of Avalor' (Disney Channel): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
3: 'Big Brother' (CBS): Renewed for seasons 19 and 20 [original slide here]
4: 'Zoo' (CBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
5: 'Girlfriends' Guide to Divorce' (Bravo): Ending after Season 5 [original slide here]
6: 'Celebrity Family Feud' (ABC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
7: 'Match Game' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
8: '$100,000 Pyramid' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
9: 'Suits' (USA Network): Renewed for season 7 [original slide here]
10: 'Houdini & Doyle' (Fox): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
11: 'American Grit' (Fox): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
12: 'Ballers' (HBO): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
13: 'Chelsea' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
14: 'Lady Dynamite' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
15: 'Real Rob' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
16: 'Project Greenlight' (HBO): Canceled after 4 seasons [original slide here]
17: TURN: Washington's Spies (AMC): Ending after season 4 [original slide here]
18: 'Vampire Diaries' (CW): Ending after season 8 [original slide here]
19: 'Daredevil' (Netflix): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
20: 'Teen Wolf' (MTV): Ending after 6 seasons [original slide here]
21: 'Black Sails' (Starz): Ending after season 4 [original slide here]
22: 'Making a Murderer' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
23: 'Power' (Starz): Renewed for seasons 4 and 5 [original slide here]
24: 'Powerpuff Girls' (Cartoon Network): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
25: 'Bloodline' (Netflix): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
26: 'Maron' (IFC): Ending after four seasons [original slide here]
27: 'Hunters' (Syfy): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
28: 'Uncle Buck' (ABC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
29: 'Animal Kingdom' (TNT): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
30: 'Angie Tribeca' (TBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
31: 'Wrecked' (TBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
32: 'Preacher' (AMC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
33: '12 Monkeys' (Syfy): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
34: 'Vinyl' (HBO): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
35: 'Penny Dreadful' (Showtime): Canceled after three season [original slide here]
36: 'Archer' (FX): Renewed for seasons 8, 9 and 10 [original slide here]
37: 'Orphan Black' (BBC America): Renewed for 5th and final season [original slide here]
38: 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' (HBO): Renewed for season 9 [original slide here]
39: 'Younger' (TVLand): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
40: 'Nashville' (CMT): Renewed for season 5; moving from ABC to CMT [original slide here]
41: 'Homeland' (Showtime): Renewed for seasons 6, 7 and 8 [original slide here]
42: 'UnREAL' (Lifetime): Renewed for season 3 ahead of its season 2 premiere [original slide here]
43: Outlander (Starz): Renewed for seasons 3 and 4 [original slide here]
44: 'Transparent' (Amazon): Renewed for season 4 (season 3 premieres this fall) [original slide here]
45: 'Project Runway' (lifetime): Renewed for seasons 15-17 [original slide here]
46: 'Limitless' (CBS): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
47: 'The Americans' (FX): Renewed for final two seasons [original slide here]
48: 'Damien' (A&E): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
49: 'House of Lies' (Showtime): Ending after five seasons [original slide here]
50: Galavant (ABC): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
51: 'Code Black' (CBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
52: 'Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders' (CBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
53: 'The Odd Couple' (CBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
54: 'Undercover Boss' (CBS): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
55: 'Rush Hour' (CBS): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
56: 'The Carmichael Show' (NBC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
57: 'The Mysteries of Laura' (NBC): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
58: 'Telenovela' (NBC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
59: 'Undateable' (NBC): Canceled after three seasons [original slide here]
60: 'Crowded' (NBC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
61: 'Heartbeat' (NBC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
62: 'Game of Silence' (NBC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
63: 'Castle' (ABC): Canceled after eight seasons [original slide here]
64: 'Grandfathered' (FOX): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
65: 'The Grinder' (FOX): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
66: 'Dr. Ken' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
67: 'Bordertown' (FOX): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
68: 'Marvel's Agent Carter' (ABC): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
69: 'The Muppets' (ABC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
70: 'American Crime' (ABC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
71: 'The Family' (ABC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
72: 'The Catch' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
73: 'The Real O’Neals' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
74: 'Supergirl' (CBS) - Renewed for season 2 and moving to The CW [original slide here]
75: 'CSI: Cyber' (CBS): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
76: 'Containment' (The CW): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
77: 'Criminal Minds' (CBS): Renewed for season 12 [original slide here]
78: 'The Mindy Project' (Hulu): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
79: 'The Path' (Hulu): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
80: 'The Ranch' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
81: 'Underground' (WGN): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
82: 'Greenleaf' (OWN): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
83: 'Silicon Valley' (HBO): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
84: 'Game of Thrones' (HBO): Renewed for season 7 [original slide here]
85: 'Veep' (HBO): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
86: 'The Shannara Chronicles' (MTV): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
87: 'Fear the Walking Dead' (AMC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
88: 'Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce' (Bravo): Renewed for seasons 3, 4 & 5 [original slide here]
89: 'F is for Family' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
90: 'Man Seeking Woman' (FXX): Renewed for season 3 in 2017 [original slide here]
91: 'New Girl' (Fox): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
92: 'Degrassi: Next Class' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
93: 'Episodes' (Showtime): Ending after season 5 [original slide here]
94: 'Rosewood' (Fox): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
95: 'Lucifer' (Fox): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
96: 'The Detour' (TBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
97: 'Kocktails with Khloé' (FYI): Canceled after 14 episodes [original slide here]
98: 'Grimm' (NBC): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
99: 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia' (FXX): Renewed for seasons 13 and 14 [original slide here]
100: 'Moonbeam City' (Comedy Central): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
101: 'Drunk History' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
102: 'This Is Not Happening' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
103: 'Review' (Comedy Central): Ending after season 3 [original slide here]
104: 'Tosh.0' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 10 [original slide here]
105: 'Not Safe with Nikki Glaser' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
106: 'Togetherness' (HBO): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
107: 'Survivor' (CBS): Renewed for season 33 [original slide here]
108: 'Scorpion' (CBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
109: 'NCIS: New Orleans' (CBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
110: 'NCIS: Los Angeles' (CBS): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
111: 'Mom' (CBS): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
112: 'Madam Secretary' (CBS): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
113: 'Hawaii Five-0' (CBS): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
114: 'Elementary' (CBS): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
115: 'Blue Bloods' (CBS): Renewed for season 7 [original slide here]
116: 'The Amazing Race' (CBS): Renewed for season 29 [original slide here]
117: '2 Broke Girls' (CBS): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
118: 'The Last Man on Earth' (Fox): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
119: 'Brooklyn Nine-Nine' (Fox): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
120: 'Vikings' (History): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
121: 'Of Kings and Prophets' (ABC): Canceled after two episodes [original slide here]
122: Person of Interest (CBS): Ending after season 5 [original slide here]
123: 'Better Call Saul' (AMC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
124: 'The 100' (The CW): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
125: 'Switched at Birth' (Freeform): Ending after season 5 [original slide here]
126: 'Arrow' (The CW): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
127: 'Crazy Ex-Girlfriend' (The CW): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
128: 'DC's Legends of Tomorrow' (The CW): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
129: 'The Flash' (The CW): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
130: 'iZombie' (The CW): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
131: 'Jane The Virgin' (The CW): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
132: 'The Originals ' (The CW): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
133: 'Reign' (The CW): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
134: 'Supernatural' (The CW): Renewed for season 12 [original slide here]
135: 'The Vampire Diaries' (The CW): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
136: 'Outsiders' (WGN America): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
137: 'Royal Pains' (USA): Ending after season 8 [original slide here]
138: 'Mercy Street' (PBS): Renewed for season 2 in 2017 [original slide here]
139: 'Supergirl' (CBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
140: 'Into the Badlands' (AMC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
141: 'Chef's Table' (Netflix): Renewed for seasons 2, 3 and 4 [original slide here]
142: 'Kevin from Work' (Freeform): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
143: 'Young & Hungry' (Freeform): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
144: 'Grey's Anatomy' (ABC): Renewed for season 13 [original slide here]
145: 'American Horror Story' (FX): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
146: 'Dancing with the Stars' (ABC): Renewed for seasons 22 & 23 [original slide here]
147: 'Scandal' (ABC): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
148: 'Quantico' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
149: 'The Bachelor' (ABC): Renewed for season 21 [original slide here]
150: 'How to Get Away with Murder' (ABC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
151: 'Fresh Off the Boat' (ABC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
152: 'Shark Tank' (ABC): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
153: 'Marvel's Agents of SHIELD' (ABC): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
154: 'The Middle' (ABC): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
155: 'Once Upon a Time' (ABC): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
156: 'The Goldbergs' (ABC): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
157: 'Modern Family' (ABC): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
158: 'Black-ish' (ABC): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
159: 'Teachers' (TV Land): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
160: 'NCIS' (CBS): Renewed for seasons 14 and 15 [original slide here]
161: 'Bones' (Fox): Renewed for a 12th and final season [original slide here]
162: 'The View' (ABC): Renewed for season 20 [original slide here]
163: 'Baskets' (FX): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
164: 'Superstore' (NBC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
165: 'Vinyl' (HBO): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
166: 'Unforgetable' (A&E): Canceled after season 4 [original slide here]
167: 'Master of None' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 in 2017 [original slide here]
168: 'Days of Our Lives' (NBC): Renewed for season 51 [original slide here]
169: 'Mozart in the Jungle' (Amazon): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
170: 'The Magicians' (Syfy): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
171: 'Colony' (USA Network): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
172: 'Manhattan' (WGN America): Canceled after 2 seasons [original slide here]
173: 'Law & Order: Special Victims Unit' (NBC): Renewed for season 18 [original slide here]
174: 'Orange Is the New Black' (Netflix): Renewed for seasons 5, 6 and 7 [original slide here]
175: 'Chicago Med' (NBC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
176: 'Angel from Hell' (CBS): Canceled after 5 episodes [original slide here]
177: 'The Good Wife' (CBS): Ending after 7 seasons [original slide here]
178: 'Shades of Blue' (NBC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
179: 'So You Think You Can Dance' (FOX): Renewed for season 13 [original slide here]
180: 'Finding Carter' (MTV): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
181: 'House of Cards' (Netflix): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
182: 'Billions' (Showtime): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
183: 'Lip Sync Battle' (Spike): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
184: 'Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt' (Netflix): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
185: 'Marvel's Jessica Jones' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
186: Heroes Reborn (NBC): Ending after one season [original slide here]
187: 'Mike & Molly' (CBS): Ending after season 6 [original slide here]
188: 'The Royals' (E!): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
189: 'Girls' (HBO): Ending after season 6 [original slide here]
190: 'Younger' (TV Land): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
191: 'Inside Amy Schumer' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 5 (Season 4 begins in April) [original slide here]
192: 'Broad City' (Comedy Central): Renewed for seasons 4 and 5 (Season 3 begins in Feb.) [original slide here]
193: 'Being Mary Jane' (BET: Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
194: 'Rizzoli & Isles' (TNT): Ending after season 7 [original slide here]
195: 'Rectify' (Sundance TV): Canceled after season 4 [original slide here]
196: 'Celebrity Family Feud' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
197: ‘The Ellen DeGeneres Show’ (NBC): Renewed through the 2019-2020 season [original slide here]
198: 'The Meredith Vieira Show' (NBC): Ending after season two [original slide here]
199: 'The Expanse' (Syfy): Renewed for season 2 in 2017 [original slide here]
200: 'Benders' (IFC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
201: Best Time Ever with Neil Patrick Harris (NBC) - Canceled after one season [original slide here]
202: Major Crimes (TNT) - Renewed for Season 5 [original slide here]
203: Legends (TNT) - Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
204: The Librarians (TNT) - Renewed for Season 3 [original slide here]
205: Public Morals (TNT) - Canceled after one season [original slide here]
206: Agent X (TNT) - Canceled after one season [original slide here]
207: ' 'Wayward Pines' (FOX): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
208: 'Grace and Frankie' (Netflix): Renewed for season 2 and 3 [original slide here]
209: 'The Leftovers' (HBO): Ending after season 3 [original slide here]
210: 'Nathan for You' (Comedy Central): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
211: 'Bitten' (Syfy): Ending after season 3 [original slide here]
212: 'Homeland' (Showtime): Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
213: 'The Affair' (Showtime): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
214: 'The Blacklist' (NBC): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
215: 'Gigi Does It' (IFC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
216: 'Jay Leno's Garage' (CNBC): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
217: 'The Art of More' (Crackle): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
218: 'You're the Worst' (FXX): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
219: 'The Fosters' (ABC Family): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
220: 'Star Wars Rebels' (Disney XD): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
221: 'Dancing With the Stars' (ABC): Renewed for a 22nd cycle to begin in March [original slide here]
222: 'Girl Meets World' (Disney): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
223: 'Fargo' (FX): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
224: 'Gravity Falls' (Disney XD): Ending after two seasons. [original slide here]
225: 'The Meltdown With Jonah and Kumail' (Comedy Central): Renewed for an 8-episode 3rd season [original slide here]
226: 'The Soup' (E!): Ending after 22 years (series finale will air Dec. 18 at 10 p.m. ET/PT on E!) [original slide here]
227: 'The B------ Executioner' (FX): Canceled after one season. [original slide here]
228: 'Wicked City' (ABC): Canceled after three episodes [original slide here]
229: 'Murder in the First' (TNT): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
230: 'The Player' (NBC): Ending after 9 episodes [original slide here]
231: 'Blood & Oil' (ABC): Ending after 10 episodes [original slide here]
232: 'Truth Be Told' (NBC): Ending after 10 episodes [original slide here]
233: 'Under The Dome' (CBS) - Canceled after three seasons [original slide here]
234: 'American Horror Story': Renewed for season 6 [original slide here]
235: 'Chicago P.D.' (NBC): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
236: 'Chicago Fire' (NBC): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
237: 'Blindspot' (NBC): Renewed for season two [original slide here]
238: 'Z nation' (Syfy): Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
239: 'Maron' (IFC): Renewed for season 4 [original slide here]
240: 'BattleBots' (ABC): Renewed for season 2 on the network (its 7th season overall) [original slide here]
241: 'The Walking Dead' (AMC): Renewed for season 7 [original slide here]
242: 'Longmire' (Netflix): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
243: 'The Brink' (HBO): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
244: 'Married' (FX): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
245: 'Monica the Medium' (ABC Family): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
246: 'I Am Cait' (E!): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
247: 'MythBusters' (Discovery): Ending after 14 seasons [original slide here]
248: Minority Report Season 1 reduced to 10 episodes [original slide here]
249: 'Clipped' (TBS): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
250: 'Switched at Birth' (ABC Family/Freeform): Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
251: 'The Whispers' (ABC): Canceled after one season [original slide here]
252: 'Defiance' (Syfy): Canceled after 3 seasons [original slide here]
253: 'Rookie Blue' (ABC): Canceled after 6 seasons. [original slide here]
254: 'Ink Master' (Spike): Renewed for season 8 and 'Ink Master: Redemption' (Spike): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
255: America's Next Top Model (The CW): Ending after 22 seasons [original slide here]
256: Dominion (Syfy): Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
257: ‘Beauty and the Beast’ (CW): Ending after season 4. [original slide here]
258: 'Extant' (CBS): Canceled after two seasons. [original slide here]
259: 'Banshee' (Cinemax): Ending after four seasons. [original slide here]
260: 'Bob's Burgers' (Fox): Renewed for seasons 7 and 8 [original slide here]
261: 'Zoo' (CBS) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
262: 'Chasing Life' (ABC Family) - Canceled after two seasons [original slide here]
263: 'WAGS' (E!) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
264: ‘Girlfriends’ Guide To Divorce’ (Bravo) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
265: Sex&Drugs&Rock&Roll (FX) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
266: ‘Basketball Wives: LA’ (VH1) - Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
267: Rock This Boat: New Kids On The Block (Pop) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
268: Party Down South (CMT) - Renewed for season 5 [original slide here]
269: The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore (Comedy Central) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
270: Dating Naked (VH1) - Renewed for season 3 [original slide here]
271: Mr. Robinson (NBC) - Canceled after one season [original slide here]
272: The Carmichael Show (NBC) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
273: ‘America’s Got Talent’ (NBC) - Renewed for season 11 [original slide here]
274: 'Killjoys' (Syfy) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
275: 'Dark Matter' (Syfy) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
276: 'Impastor' (TV Land) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
277: 'The Jim Gaffigan Show' (TVLand) - Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]
 
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#5 ·
no surprise here
such promise yet done so poorly
10: 'Houdini & Doyle' (Fox): Canceled after one season [original slide here]

seriously ?
52: 'Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders' (CBS): Renewed for season 2 [original slide here]

again, seriously ?
is there anybody who is fooled by this ?
54: 'Undercover Boss' (CBS): Renewed for season 8 [original slide here]
 
#8 ·
The CW Gives Early Renewals to 'The Flash,' Six Others

The network has doled out early renewals to all its comic book franchises ("Arrow," "D.C.'s Legends of Tomorrow," "The Flash," "Supergirl") and to "Jane the Virgin," "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend," and "Supernatural." The CW will also resurrect DC's "Constantine" as an animated series starring the voice of Matt Ryan on digital outlet CW Seed, produced by Greg Berlanti.
 
#18 ·
Yeah, we may be wound out on Frequency - we have maybe 3-4 eps in the can and no urge to go watch them ...
its less compelling each week and too much like work to get to the end ...
And Supergirl is drifting off my Must Watch list as well ...
But we still like Flash!
 
#21 ·
:up: for Life in Pieces and Survivor. And The Big Bang Theory was recently renewed for two more seasons, so that should be part of that CBS list. Hopefully The Amazing Race will also get a renewal after the upcoming season has aired.
 
#23 ·
I'm holding out hope for at least one TAR each season. Maybe it will depend on what kind of ratings for the new Thursday night slot.
 
#68 ·
Wow...I am a bit shocked that TAR is on that list... I don't keep up with the viewership numbers at all, but my perception was that it had a large following (not quite as large as my perception of the Survivor following, but still above the line to justify keeping it).
 
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