[SOGLAD]

WARNING !!!

While testing a new hard drive WITH THE COVER OFF I noticed the POWER CABLE was not quite seated 100%... Just as I was reaching for the cord connector I noticed:

A EXPOSED FUSE END (with wire attached) standing UP just 1/4 INCH from the 'internal Power Connector'!

Please let me assure you ~ a digital volt meter AFFIRMS 119 LETHAL VAC PRESENT!

Note: I was holding on to the chassis to keep the TiVo from slipping away. My left hand was a microsecond away from that AC Power Connector... one clumsy move and I would have been toast.

TCD746320 TiVo PREMIERE
Power Supply: ST8015

 

[kpeters59]

Are you new to working inside electronic devices?

-KP

 

[keithg1964]

Talk about overreaction Friday on an Thursday. Granted not the best design, but not 100% lethal (not even 50%).

 

[wmcbrine]

Given that it's not meant to be operated with the cover off, I'm not sure what the concern is?

 

[Anotherpyr]

It’s shocking I tell you, shocking!

 

[mde8965]

Rule 1 when working inside of electric appliances - unplug them
Rule 1 when working anywhere around hard drives - ground yourself (eliminate possibility of static electricity)

Since you did neither had you been shocked ( you likely would not have perished), and since you chose to open the appliance (while it’s powered) then the only liability here is your own.

I liken this to the kid on “A Christmas Story” who chose to put his tongue on the frozen flag pole. I guess, according to someone’s way of thinking the pole manufacturer should have been liable.

I know this is a little after Christmas humor. Not meant to be taken seriously. But it’s slow here today, so I gladly bit hard on the hook

 

[jay_man2]

^There's a NSFW tongue and pole joke in there somewhere. Shocking!

 

[Intheswamp]

Please let me assure you ~ a digital volt meter AFFIRMS 119 LETHAL VAC PRESENT!

Note: I was holding on to the chassis to keep the TiVo from slipping away. My left hand was a microsecond away from that AC Power Connector... one clumsy move and I would have been toast.

I'm Soglad you're still with us!!!
!

Touching it might have really brightened up your day! Unless you grab the electrified item it's mostly going to give you a mild to nasty jolt and you'll recoil quickly from it...just resist the temptation<grin> to grab it between your fingers and you should (mostly) be ok...maybe change of underwear if you're really "delicate". Naturally, if you're standing in a puddle of water or something I wouldn't be tinkering inside of a live box. For what you described I would have pushed the connector down with the tip of an insulated handled (which most are) screwdriver.

I'm not sure how many of you have been around electric fences, but there's lots of humor in them. It's a funny thing, that people can't understand the humor in someone touching an electric fence until they have touched one themselves. But, I digress...

But, do realize that tinkering with electrical product requires a bit of safety precautions and common sense. Be careful. One other old rule-of-thumb/tip/wives-tale/etc is to always have one hand in your pocket if working on electricity...it keeps an accidental current from traveling from one hand to the other with your heart in the middle. :dizzy:

And of course, here are some kids testing an electric fence and the high-voltage, low-current aspects of the old-wives'-tale...
Bing video

 

[Teeps]

Well it is what it is... nothing to get excited about.

 

[Intheswamp]

Well it is what it is... nothing to get excited about.

...until you touch that live part and do the electric-dance.<GRIN>

 

[jay_man2]

...until you touch that live part and do the electric-dance.<GRIN>

 

[Intheswamp]

No, no, no. That's not the right dance at all!!!!! <grin>

 

[SOGLAD]

Talk about overreaction Friday on an Thursday. Granted not the best design, but not 100% lethal (not even 50%).

Errrr ahaa... not to quibble but Google reports: "In the United States, there are approximately 1000 deaths per year, as a result of electrical injuries." and OSHA reports: "Out of 4,674 worker fatalities in private industry in calendar year 2017, 971 or 20.7% were in construction - that is, one in five worker deaths last year were in construction. The leading causes of private sector worker deaths (excluding highway collisions) in the construction industry were falls, followed by struck by object, electrocution"... and "Electrocutions - 71 (7.3%)".

Seems most of us are into 'upgrades' (read TiVo's) and some testing can't be done with the cover on... power supply output voltage tests in example. In my case I had just upgraded the hard drive and before I put things back together (mount the drive and replace the cover) I noticed that loose power cord!

Look at the photo and YOU decide, is that a REAL danger or not? It's a shame, but the power supply manufacture SHOULD have put a 1" piece of heat shrink over the fuse body at a cost of a fraction of a penny.

SOGLAD

 

[SOGLAD]

Are you new to working inside electronic devices?

-KP

No, not "new" at all. My workbench has a array of test gear from amp meters, spectrum analyzer, generators, scopes, power supplies and more. I do my best to look before I leap. Most troubleshooting, upgrades and more can't happen with the cover on and often without power...

Spotting that FUSE in the last seconds was a lifesaver, especially with my right hand on the TiVo chassis. Some may say well your CHASSIS is not really grounded, but in this case it IS because my antenna IS ~ it was connected.

I would have been grateful if I had read a similar WARNING post about my TiVo before I began.

SOGLAD

 

[kdmorse]

For 20 years, the mantra has been "Be careful when opening your Tivo, as the power supply and contacts are unshielded".

A quick googling (from 2002, but there are thousands of other examples)... "WARNING! The power supply includes unshielded contacts that are directly connected to line voltage. THIS CAN KILL YOU."

So the lack of enthusiasm isn't so much that anyone is claiming it's safe to open a device not designed to be opened by the consumer, and with 120V connected, stick your fingers on every metal component there is for giggle.

It's just, old, obvious news. Very old news. News so old the news has had kids, and that news has had kids, and this thread is it's grandchild.

If working with the unit plugged in, be careful. The power supply is unshielded. It *can* kill you. (Death is unlikely in most cases, but there's no point in trying to quantify the odds of death vs pain vs fingernails catching fire). When working inside any electronic device while plugged in, only put your fingers where you know they belong, and never near the power supply.

If this is news to anyone. Or if anyone is unsure where it's safe to put their fingers with 120V applied, then don't. Close it before you apply power. Even if it means that in the case where something goes awry, you have to open it up again. If you have doubts, safety first.

So overblown theatrics aside, we haven't actually had this thread in a while. So it's not the worst thing in the world that it exists again.

 

[dswallow]

No user-serviceable parts are inside. If you choose to ignore that one, it's your responsibility to ensure your safety. The power supply is completely open. Sure, they could've protected it from putting your fingers on it, but it's not meant to be in a device that's user serviceable and faces that possibility. So we go right back to it being your responsibility to ensure your safety when working inside the device.

You appear actually have done something correctly... looked at what you were doing before doing it. Thus you took some responsibility for ensuring your safety. Maybe not a lot. But apparently enough.

 

[wmcbrine]

One other old rule-of-thumb/tip/wives-tale/etc is to always have one hand in your pocket if working on electricity.

Ah, the Alanis rule.

 

[kdmorse]

Ah, the Alanis rule.

When working on exposed power supplies, avoid making eye contact with Vanilla Ice?

 

[Anotherpyr]

Errrr ahaa... not to quibble but Google reports: "In the United States, there are approximately 1000 deaths per year, as a result of electrical injuries." and OSHA reports: "Out of 4,674 worker fatalities in private industry in calendar year 2017, 971 or 20.7% were in construction - that is, one in five worker deaths last year were in construction. The leading causes of private sector worker deaths (excluding highway collisions) in the construction industry were falls, followed by struck by object, electrocution"... and "Electrocutions - 71 (7.3%)".

Seems most of us are into 'upgrades' (read TiVo's) and some testing can't be done with the cover on... power supply output voltage tests in example. In my case I had just upgraded the hard drive and before I put things back together (mount the drive and replace the cover) I noticed that loose power cord!

Look at the photo and YOU decide, is that a REAL danger or not? It's a shame, but the power supply manufacture SHOULD have put a 1" piece of heat shrink over the fuse body at a cost of a fraction of a penny.

SOGLAD

A better stat might be that 90% of deaths by electrocution occur in the home with 110V AC.

Current is the real killer and it requires a path through the heart to stop it. What was considered to be the worst issue with 110V AC was the tendency for it to cause your muscles to contract and thus create a death grip. Higher voltages tend to knock you away from them, thus the adoption of 220 V AC in many countries.

if you open any electrical device that plugs into the wall while it's plugged in you risk touching 110 V AC in the US and for certain appliances this can be 220 V AC.

 

[lhvetinari]

When working on exposed power supplies, avoid making eye contact with Vanilla Ice?

Good advice, no matter what you're working on.