I can use the "Save to VCR" function to store my S3's non-HD recordings onto my Sony computer which has a built in TV tuner and Gigapocket video recording software. I would think you could do that with any computer that has a TV tuner card and software.NCRobino said:...does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can get recordings (non HD or HD) off the Tivo to the computer and back to the Tivo in the meantime?
It's hard wiring. I connect a cable with RCA plugs to the A/V outputs of S3 and the A/V inputs on my computer.NCRobino said:Does that require hard wiring to the output on the tivo or can it be done through the network at all?
Does anyone know if there is a possibility of them NEVER allowing MRV/TTG on the S3?GoHokies! said:Nothing changed for the S3.
The rules just say that new cable company boxes have to have cable cards too. Since none of them do anything like TTG, that isn't effected.
As far as we know, we're still on track for some form of MRV/TTG this year.
Not supporting TTG or MRV on the S3? That's about as likely as Apple deciding to stop supporting the Mac OS and shipping computers with Windows instead.ronnieko said:Does anyone know if there is a possibility of them NEVER allowing MRV/TTG on the S3?
Comcast in Hartford sends all channels out in digital simulcast when using the Cable Cards, you have no choice, I have noway to change the quality setting on any channel because of this.Justin Thyme said:What Dan said.
Something that will be unclear to some readers is just how many channels they think are digital are actually analog. Chances are, if your local cable company has a large number of channels in analog and also in digital, that they will not duplicate the channel as a digital signal. Sure- it will have a different number, but it's still analog. My cable provider is Time Warner, and where I live, about 90% of the channels in the non premium tiers are still analog. So in my case, enabling "Just" analog will be almost identical to full enabling of TTG/MRV. For others it will mean less. Your mileage will definately vary- many major metropolitan areas are nearly all digital but you can check if all you have is a cable Set top Box. (for Motorola boxes here for Scientific Atlanta boxes here). If you have an S3, there is an easier way to spot check as you will see in the same thread.
Anyhow- Dan's response is the authoritative response, but I composed a response last night but neglected to send it. For what it's worth-
Not supporting TTG or MRV on the S3? That's about as likely as Apple deciding to stop supporting the Mac OS and shipping computers with Windows instead.
I'd be stunned if by year end they don't have TTG, and MRV working for all analog and OTA including HD, as well as HD and SD TivoBack.
There might be bonuses that would be really really cool on top of that- like TivoBack support of MPEG4- effectively allowing you to store a thousand movies on a 2TB S3. The cool thing would be to use the PC to compress shows on the S3- eg. have it take any Keep until I delete, move it over to the PC- compress it to MPEG4, then replace the original. It would effectively triple or quadruple the hard drive capacity of the S3.
Maybe not in the first rev, but Tivo will do it because the machine can support it. It is inevitable that the prices of 1TB drives will come down and when they do, the universe changes because everyone will have these ginormous libraries on the S3. This will take video consumption patterns to a whole new level. For one, HBO, Showtime, PPV and VOD will become increasingly irrelevant to viewers who have larger choice of shows they care about available on their S3. The nail in the premium tier coffin is that the S3 shows are free.
But yeah- you say- that only works for analog. Well- No, because if cablelabs digs in their heals you know what Tivo could do? Functionally, if the S3 could record from an STB via an analog connection, it would be ok to TTG and MRV it. But the S3 doesn't need a digital STB. The S3 has it's own decoder and already produces an analog signal. So as silly as it sounds, an new rev of the S3 could simply take the analog output of the decoders, send it into the encoder for an analog channel and voila- you have a stream of data that you can TTG/MRV- including SD versions of HD shows. Everything that doesn't have copy flags. Note that this could be done at TTG/MRV time. The downside is that this would require the use of the decoder that is normally used for playing so this admittedly unlikely scenario, so maybe they put an analog input on the back of the S3 along with some IR blasters and call it a day.
I'd be very surprised if there are still cable companies (at least amongst the large MSOs) not doing full ADS at this point, at least if they're using Motorola. If they're not already, they may not begin for a while, though, since the window for getting the DCT700 all digital sub-$100 type boxes out there has closed.Justin Thyme said:they will not duplicate the channel as a digital signal.
That's exactly what they've said they are working on.cokyq said:I think for those of us not using Cable Cards, just good old OTA signals, the TIVO should detect this and turn on TTG! No Cablecard copyright issues here!
Time Warner in multiple locations (including my service in Raleigh NC) is doing ADS but they force all Cable Card owners to the Analog version instead the Digital version on any station that is simulcast. Their stated reason is that they will be going SDV on the digital version of many of those channels and they didn't want to give us digital and then take it back when they go SDV.wierdo said:I'd be very surprised if there are still cable companies (at least amongst the large MSOs) not doing full ADS at this point, at least if they're using Motorola. If they're not already, they may not begin for a while, though, since the window for getting the DCT700 all digital sub-$100 type boxes out there has closed.
TW makes no sense. Generally speaking, the channels on the analog tiers are the most widely viewed, thus provide almost no benefit from SDV. Additionally, each QAM can hold 12 SD channels with high quality, so it's not like they're gaining much, even when they put special interest channels on SDV.TiVolunteer said:Time Warner in multiple locations (including my service in Raleigh NC) is doing ADS but they force all Cable Card owners to the Analog version instead the Digital version on any station that is simulcast. Their stated reason is that they will be going SDV on the digital version of many of those channels and they didn't want to give us digital and then take it back when they go SDV.
While everyone thinks CableLabs is holding TTG and MRV back, I think TiVo has a lot of technical issues to work out. For instance, it isn't clear if the encryption used for TTG in the S2 will even work on digital recordings (afaik, TTG encryption only works on mpeg-2 files). Also, it would probably require a lot of different new cases TiVos will have to handle when doing MRV from S3 <> S2 since it's not clear if you could transfer HD to a S2 box.GoHokies! said:That's exactly what they've said they are working on.
Sadly, there isn't a magic wand to wave and make this happen.
I made that very point to their VP of Engineering for the Region. His response was that I was thinking of SDV as being too static of an allocation. They are basing their decisions on actual data from the Columbia SC roll out of SDV and looking at channel usage per node over time. He stated that the SDV definition may be/will be different by node and may change over time. He even used the example that a channel that may be SDV today may go to fixed channel tomorrow and then back to SDV the following day (for a big season finale or the olympics).wierdo said:TW makes no sense. Generally speaking, the channels on the analog tiers are the most widely viewed, thus provide almost no benefit from SDV. Additionally, each QAM can hold 12 SD channels with high quality, so it's not like they're gaining much, even when they put special interest channels on SDV.
I'm sure there are issues (flagging S3 HD needing to get flagged as no good on an SD is one example) but to my knowledge all cable content today is MPEG2 so the TTG encryption will be fine for now even if it's MPEG2 only. Some have made noise about moving to MPEG4 or other newer codecs but I dont think I've read of anyplace that TODAY has anything but MPEG2 content on it's system.rainwater said:While everyone thinks CableLabs is holding TTG and MRV back, I think TiVo has a lot of technical issues to work out. For instance, it isn't clear if the encryption used for TTG in the S2 will even work on digital recordings (afaik, TTG encryption only works on mpeg-2 files). Also, it would probably require a lot of different new cases TiVos will have to handle when doing MRV from S3 <> S2 since it's not clear if you could transfer HD to a S2 box.
I figured it out once by looking at the ratings and besides the broadcast networks there's only a handfull on channels with any kind of large share (ESPN, Disney, and maybe a few others)- so if a provider has 60 analog channels probably half of them could get put on SDV and might make sense.wierdo said:... Generally speaking, the channels on the analog tiers are the most widely viewed, thus provide almost no benefit from SDV. Additionally, each QAM can hold 12 SD channels with high quality, so it's not like they're gaining much, even when they put special interest channels on SDV......
I think any discussion about the analog channels should include the fact the FCC is pushing cable to all digital. There is the sticky issue of all of the analog cable ready TVs not connected via a cable box (including 2 in my house). The FCC mandates a broadcast tier, but (I don't think) a basic cable tier. The broadcast tier is easy to go all digital. CNN, Weather Channel, shopping channels, and lot of SD stuff are going HD. I'd be pleasantly surprised at municipal licensing agreements that discuss digital vs analog.TiVolunteer said:I made that very point to their VP of Engineering for the Region. His response was that I was thinking of SDV as being too static of an allocation. They are basing their decisions on actual data from the Columbia SC roll out of SDV and looking at channel usage per node over time. He stated that the SDV definition may be/will be different by node and may change over time. He even used the example that a channel that may be SDV today may go to fixed channel tomorrow and then back to SDV the following day (for a big season finale or the olympics).
He also said they are bound by some local carriage and local municipal licensing agreements to keep most of those lower tier channels available on analog until they make their switch over to all digital. So, this was their workaround to make the best use of their bandwidth until they can get rid of analog entirely. No timeframe was mentioned for that but I got the impression that it wasn't near term.
