TiVo Community Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a combined modem/router(cable modem) for my internet and an antenna(roof mounted) for tv. The Roamio OTA is in a different room from the modem/router so I purchased a Tivo Bridge and a POE filter to set up a MoCa network. None of the Tivo diagnoses work with the combined modem/router and tech support is unable to provide any assistance beyond those diagrams. I am about to give up. Any help would be appreciated.
 

·
TiVoholic by the bay
Joined
·
14,222 Posts
If your network/router is not MoCA enabled, then you would need 2 MoCA adapters.
1 would be at the router LAN port and the coax splitter.
2nd is at the Roamio LAN port and another coax splitter. Roamio should be setup to use ethernet and not wireless.
Additional parts needed is (2) 2-way splitters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
I'm not an expert on this but I also believe you'll need to isolate the antenna signal from the Moca cabling. I.E. run a separate coax from antenna to TiVo. The OTA signals can overlap with the frequencies used by cable internet.
 

·
Gadget Addict
Joined
·
6 Posts
I have a Roamio using MoCa to feed two Minis. It took a while and 3 cable techs to get MoCa totally right. No clue if this info will help your situation but...

In the end the secret sauce for me was two cheap MoCa filters. One filter is in the cable junction box for my house blocking signal on the incoming master feed from the cable company. This filter has 2 jobs: 1) it is blocking MoCa bandwidth/frequency/signals/noise from coming onto my home coax network from the cable company line, and 2) it is keeping my MoCa home network signals from leaking onto the local cable loop and thus keeping my network noise out of their system. I was told that this filter also prevents the neighborhood kids from hacking onto my home network over the cable system via MoCa. The second filter is on the line that leads into my cable modem/router box input and basically does the same thing with my modem, blocking the MoCa bands/frequencies from going in or out of the modem.

My Roamio is getting it's internet feed via ethernet and using MoCa to talk to the Mini's so it is a different configuration than you, as you are trying to feed internet to the Roamio over MoCa and my Roamio is feeding two Mini's with MoCa. But I can tell you that all my MoCa problems went away due to the two filters. Your issue may be caused by interference.

The first cable guy to visit thought I was trying to order a mocha latte from a cable tech he was so clueless. The 2nd cable guy added the MoCa filter on the feed line (and informed me that I had been exposing my home network to all the neighbors in my cable loop due to not having a filter). This feed line filter got my Tivo MoCa network to function but I still had quality/dependability issues; I just lived with it for quite some time thinking that this was the best I was going to get. The 3rd cable guy (who was only on site because my channel adapter died) declared the first two cable guys to be tards after I explained my setup and MoCa issues. He added a second filter at the modem/router box input and all my MoCa nightmares magically disappeared...

Now my only problem is that I apparently have to watch any cable guys that visit closely or they will disable it. The 4th cable guy I had over recently because the landscaping company sliced my underground feed line. He put in a new wire and swapped out my discontinued modem/router for a new one. I would not let him leave until I had tested both Tivo's. Sure enough, the MoCa network was down. I asked him, "What did you do outside?" He told me "I put in a new line and I removed this unnecessary adapter," pulling the MoCa filter from his belt pouch... I had him put it back and everything cranked right up.

If you don't want to bother with the cable guy, I saw these on Amazon - cheap. Worth a shot if you run out of ideas.
 

·
TDL shepherd
Joined
·
17,365 Posts
I have a combined modem/router(cable modem) for my internet and an antenna(roof mounted) for tv. The Roamio OTA is in a different room from the modem/router so I purchased a Tivo Bridge and a POE filter to set up a MoCa network. None of the Tivo diagnoses work with the combined modem/router and tech support is unable to provide any assistance beyond those diagrams. I am about to give up. Any help would be appreciated.
My first question is ... Why MoCA? Do you have other TiVo boxes, Minis...? If all you have is a single DVR, then wired networking is optional. (Though, sure, the wireless of the Roamio OTA might quickly drive one to seek a wired connection.)

If you're still looking to do MoCA, you'll want to provide some more information on your setup/situation, including the TiVo boxes you're looking to set up, the locations/rooms involved, any available coax runs, how your coax lines route from their signal source to your end devices, and what components are connecting the coax runs (e.g. splitters, amps). It sounds like you only have Ethernet access at the modem/router location, correct? Can you provide the brand & model of your cable gateway (combo modem/router), in order to determine its MoCA capabilities?

A diagram, however rough, can be especially helpful. (see attached examples for inspiration)

Handwriting Product Rectangle Font Parallel
Product Rectangle Font Parallel Slope
Rectangle Font Parallel Slope Diagram
 

·
TDL shepherd
Joined
·
17,365 Posts
In the end the secret sauce for me was two cheap MoCa filters. One filter is in the cable junction box for my house blocking signal on the incoming master feed from the cable company. This filter has 2 jobs: 1) it is blocking MoCa bandwidth/frequency/signals/noise from coming onto my home coax network from the cable company line, and 2) it is keeping my MoCa home network signals from leaking onto the local cable loop and thus keeping my network noise out of their system. I was told that this filter also prevents the neighborhood kids from hacking onto my home network over the cable system via MoCa. The second filter is on the line that leads into my cable modem/router box input and basically does the same thing with my modem, blocking the MoCa bands/frequencies from going in or out of the modem.
If your neighborhood kids are that mischievous, you'll want to make sure your cable junction box is locked-up. (see here for an obscure MoCA security concern)

As for MoCA filters...

The point-of-entry ("PoE") MoCA filter doesn't just secure the MoCA network; this MoCA filter also more efficiently reflects the MoCA signals back onto your coax lines, providing a performance boost -- often enough to make a difference between a functioning network and not. Consider the example in the slide in the following post, knowing that the maximum loss between two MoCA nodes is 57 dB.
Page 20 from PCT employee Doug MacLeod's 'MoCA Basics' presentation provides a great illustration of the performance benefit of the PoE MoCA filter.

View attachment 27724

The MoCA filter installed on your cable modem's input, to serve a "prophylactic" or "protective" function, could be needed for a couple reasons: if the modem becomes unstable with a MoCA network operational; or to prevent a MoCA-capable cable gateway from interfering with a customer-established MoCA network. "Protective" MoCA filters are often also used on the inputs of Switched Digital Video (SDV) Tuning Adapters, to prevent MoCA from interfering with the Tuning Adapter's function and vice versa. (see here for more info on proper setup of a cable SDV Tuning Adapter in a MoCA environment)

You may want to review your MoCA stats via the TiVo View Network Status dialog. (see here for more info) PHY rates and power estimates are what you're looking for, with the power estimates indicating how hard the MoCA gear is having to work to make and maintain the MoCA connection.
 

·
TDL shepherd
Joined
·
17,365 Posts
The OTA signals can overlap with the frequencies used by cable internet.
Signal frequencies:

OTA: 54-806 MHz
cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz
MoCA (D band): 1125-1675 MHz
This is a key factor in many OTA setups; OTA signals cannot share a coax run with cable TV/Internet signals, but MoCA can coexist with either.
 

·
TDL shepherd
Joined
·
17,365 Posts
The 3rd cable guy (who was only on site because my channel adapter died) ...
Do you mean "tuning adapter," as in the device required for CableCARD-equipped TiVo's in Switched Digital Video setups? If so, I'd be curious to know how the TA & associated DVR are connected via coax. Also, who's your cable provider?

p.s. From above:
"Protective" MoCA filters are often also used on the inputs of Switched Digital Video (SDV) Tuning Adapters, to prevent MoCA from interfering with the Tuning Adapter's function and vice versa. (see here for more info on proper setup of a cable SDV Tuning Adapter in a MoCA environment)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I have a combined modem/router(cable modem) for my internet and an antenna(roof mounted) for tv. The Roamio OTA is in a different room from the modem/router so I purchased a Tivo Bridge and a POE filter to set up a MoCa network. None of the Tivo diagnoses work with the combined modem/router and tech support is unable to provide any assistance beyond those diagrams. I am about to give up. Any help would be appreciated.
As noted in the first reply, you will need either a MoCA-enabled gateway (modem/router combo, or the router if using separate components) or you'll need to use a MoCA adapter on the existing gateway in order to set up the MoCA network. My ISP-provided gateway, although a cheap device, was already MoCA-enabled since that's how they got "whole-house DVR," and it's worked fine for me. Some of the Arris Surfboard gateways have MoCA built in, if you want to buy a new gateway instead of an adapter for your current one. The Actiontec ECB6200 adapter has worked great for me, although they are pricey (cheaper in pairs). You'll need one for each non-MoCA TV or other device you want on the network as well.
I've attached diagrams of what eventually worked for me. Note that the OTA signal from the antenna and your internet from the cable company can use the same coax cables you already have running through your house, but not if you also use the cable TV, at least not in my experience. That was fine for me, because I wanted only internet from my ISP, with TV through a combination of streaming and OTA. Also, it was critical to have a common point of entry for the OTA and the internet at the gateway/router. I initially had the antenna feeding into the living room and while it worked fine for that room, the OTA signal wasn't being distributed through the house. Maybe you can adapt what I did to help in your situation.
 

Attachments

·
TDL shepherd
Joined
·
17,365 Posts
Note that the OTA signal from the antenna and your internet from the cable company can use the same coax cables you already have running through your house, but not if you also use the cable TV, at least not in my experience. That was fine for me, because I wanted only internet from my ISP, with TV through a combination of streaming and OTA. Also, it was critical to have a common point of entry for the OTA and the internet at the gateway/router. I initially had the antenna feeding into the living room and while it worked fine for that room, the OTA signal wasn't being distributed through the house. Maybe you can adapt what I did to help in your situation.
Good info and great diagram, but it's not universally applicable.

Your setup shouldn't work as you've described it, but after looking at your diagram I can see why it's working for you... because you don't have cable service, either TV or Internet; you have fiber Internet service. You don't even have a WAN signal on your cable lines, since the WAN connection is being delivered via Cat6 cable from the fiber ONT. Your setup, with the coax fed only from the gateway isn't any different than having used a standalone MoCA adapter at a router to provide the MoCA/Ethernet bridge for an isolated coax segment; the MoCA LAN signals are the only thing coming/going via the coax leg between the gateway and diplexer's "SAT" port.

A typical cable Internet service these days would conflict with OTA antenna on the same coax lines, both because the Internet signals will likely overlap with OTA signals but also because not subscribing to the associated cable TV service doesn't mean the TV signals aren't being broadcast by the cable provider.
Signal frequencies:

OTA: 54-806 MHz
cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz
MoCA (D band): 1125-1675 MHz
This is a key factor in many OTA setups; OTA signals cannot share a coax run with cable TV/Internet signals, but MoCA can coexist with either.

An "antenna + MoCA LAN" setup equivalent to yours but subscribed to cable Internet service would require a dedicated coax line to the cable gateway and a standalone MoCA adapter feeding the diplexer (or a reconfiguration of the coax plant up-stream of a MoCA-capable gateway involving a "PoE" MoCA filter and additional 2-way split).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Good info and great diagram, but it's not universally applicable.

Your setup shouldn't work as you've described it, but after looking at your diagram I can see why it's working for you... because you don't have cable service, either TV or Internet; you have fiber Internet service. You don't even have a WAN signal on your cable lines, since the WAN connection is being delivered via Cat6 cable from the fiber ONT. Your setup, with the coax fed only from the gateway isn't any different than having used a standalone MoCA adapter at a router to provide the MoCA/Ethernet bridge for an isolated coax segment; the MoCA LAN signals are the only thing coming/going via the coax leg between the gateway and diplexer's "SAT" port.

A typical cable Internet service these days would conflict with OTA antenna on the same coax lines, both because the Internet signals will likely overlap with OTA signals but also because not subscribing to the associated cable TV service doesn't mean the TV signals aren't being broadcast by the cable provider.

An "antenna + MoCA LAN" setup equivalent to yours but subscribed to cable Internet service would require a dedicated coax line to the cable gateway and a standalone MoCA adapter feeding the diplexer (or a reconfiguration of the coax plant up-stream of a MoCA-capable gateway involving a "PoE" MoCA filter and additional 2-way split).
Thanks for the info -- this is very helpful to me.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top