These "open" devices of which they speak are OCAP devices that are, in fact, closed. The cable company decides what software you get on the box. Any vendor can make the box, but the only choices they really have is what color the box will be and how large the hard drive is. In the case of TWC, they will cripple every device with their new Navigator software. So if TiVo made one of these devices, TWC would only allow Navigator to run on it. Not much of a Tivo in that case.
Open Cable Cable Card & S3, SDV, VOD????
I am in North Dallas with Time Warner Cable.
On Time Warner Cable's internet site. They mentioned Open Cable Devices (CE Equipment).
The showed a "table" listing the capability of Open Cable Cable Cards (OCCC) & what those devices were capable of doing.
They showed that they were 2-way devices capable of receiving VOD & On-Demand as well as FULLY SUPPORTING SDV (Switched Digital Video).
I called TWC & they informed me that they had OPEN CABLE CABLE CARDS ready for distribution IN STOCK in the Dallas area... however they informed me that there were currently NO DEVICES that support the "OPEN CABLE CABLE CARDS"(OCCC).
The rep said that they were Moto Cable Cards. I then saw a TWC installer out & asked him about them. He had 2 units on his rig. They were in fact MOTO Cable Cards that Clearly had stamped on them "Open Cable Cable Card". He said he had tried them in a TiVo & they did not work. He did not know if it was the TiVo HD or Series 3 that he had tried them in.
So my question if anyone knows... is Can the S3 or TiVoHD use the OCCC?
If not.... do you think it will if TiVo provided a Software update? Or do you think this will require a Hardware update such as maybe in a Series 4?
Does anyone think that TiVo might release a new unit that is capable of using the OCCC?
Any Ideas anyone?
TGC
On Time Warner Cable's internet site. They mentioned Open Cable Devices (CE Equipment).
The showed a "table" listing the capability of Open Cable Cable Cards (OCCC) & what those devices were capable of doing.
They showed that they were 2-way devices capable of receiving VOD & On-Demand as well as FULLY SUPPORTING SDV (Switched Digital Video).
I called TWC & they informed me that they had OPEN CABLE CABLE CARDS ready for distribution IN STOCK in the Dallas area... however they informed me that there were currently NO DEVICES that support the "OPEN CABLE CABLE CARDS"(OCCC).
The rep said that they were Moto Cable Cards. I then saw a TWC installer out & asked him about them. He had 2 units on his rig. They were in fact MOTO Cable Cards that Clearly had stamped on them "Open Cable Cable Card". He said he had tried them in a TiVo & they did not work. He did not know if it was the TiVo HD or Series 3 that he had tried them in.
So my question if anyone knows... is Can the S3 or TiVoHD use the OCCC?
If not.... do you think it will if TiVo provided a Software update? Or do you think this will require a Hardware update such as maybe in a Series 4?
Does anyone think that TiVo might release a new unit that is capable of using the OCCC?
Any Ideas anyone?
TGC
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
But that's the DEVICE. He said the CABLE CARD was listed as an OCCC (redundant redundant redundant redundant?).
"They were in fact MOTO Cable Cards that Clearly had stamped on them "Open Cable Cable Card."
He didn't say the BOX was listed as OPEN. He said the CARD was.
That is interesting.
"They were in fact MOTO Cable Cards that Clearly had stamped on them "Open Cable Cable Card."
He didn't say the BOX was listed as OPEN. He said the CARD was.
That is interesting.
Perhaps they're M-Cards? That'd be my guess. There's no technical reason they shouldn't work - part of the M-Card spec addresses backward compatibility with S-Card capable hardware. The TiVo HD can use them in multistream mode - i.e., you'd only need one; the S3 would only be able to use them in S-Card compatibility mode, so it'd need two. "OpenCable" is the industry name for the push surrounding OCAP and that whole mess; however, the cards aren't special, other than being the M-Cards versus S-Cards, so them telling you "oh, those won't work" is BS.Grakthis said:But that's the DEVICE. He said the CABLE CARD was listed as an OCCC (redundant redundant redundant redundant?).
"They were in fact MOTO Cable Cards that Clearly had stamped on them "Open Cable Cable Card."
He didn't say the BOX was listed as OPEN. He said the CARD was.
Edit: Oh yeah, and as mentioned above, "open" is a misnomer there, but that's neither here nor there...
The cable cards you guys currently use are the same those devices will. Its the devices that are the limitation right now. As for tivo going that route, its doubtful, they are putting their software on the cables hardware instead of vice versa. They have deals with comcast and a couple other cable co's to put their software on their moto boxes.
No, it really isn't. This is TWC double speak. The cable card is not the open device, it is the decryption card used in the "open" device that is really just OCAP and a cablecard. But if you want to start speculating, go right ahead.Grakthis said:That is interesting.
So TWC stamped "Open Cable Cable Card" on a plain old Motorola card?pkscout said:No, it really isn't. This is TWC double speak. The cable card is not the open device, it is the decryption card used in the "open" device that is really just OCAP and a cablecard. But if you want to start speculating, go right ahead.
All I know... is in the TABLE they listed One way Cable Cards... AND Open Cable Cable Cards.
On the Truck... the Installed had 3 Different MOTO cards. One that said "Cable Card" one that said "Multi-Stream Cable CArd" and one that said "Open Cable Cable Card". All THREE cards were MOTO cards.
In the Table... The Open Cable Cable Card WOULD support VOD, On Demand, & SDV.
The One way cards (As they listed them in the table) would NOT support SDV, Vod, or On-Demand.
I saw actual cable cards... Not a "Box"
The guy on the phone said they would NOT currently work with any TiVo currently released. But then again what does he really know?
If they WOULD work with a TiVo... either S3 or TivoHD... then THAT would solve our SDV/VoD/ & Ondemand issues with TiVo as the Open Cable Cable card would support those. Or so they are claiming.
TGC
On the Truck... the Installed had 3 Different MOTO cards. One that said "Cable Card" one that said "Multi-Stream Cable CArd" and one that said "Open Cable Cable Card". All THREE cards were MOTO cards.
In the Table... The Open Cable Cable Card WOULD support VOD, On Demand, & SDV.
The One way cards (As they listed them in the table) would NOT support SDV, Vod, or On-Demand.
I saw actual cable cards... Not a "Box"
The guy on the phone said they would NOT currently work with any TiVo currently released. But then again what does he really know?
If they WOULD work with a TiVo... either S3 or TivoHD... then THAT would solve our SDV/VoD/ & Ondemand issues with TiVo as the Open Cable Cable card would support those. Or so they are claiming.
TGC
No it didn't appear to be a Time Warner Stamp. It looked as though it was printed on the "Sticker" by Moto.Revolutionary said:So TWC stamped "Open Cable Cable Card" on a plain old Motorola card?
TGC
Right, that was the point I was making. This isn't "TWC double speak."TexasGrillChef said:No it didn't appear to be a Time Warner Stamp. It looked as though it was printed on the "Sticker" by Moto.
TGC
What TGC is describing, in terms of functionality if not title, is the CableCard 2.0 spec, which will allow 2.0-compliant CC devices to access VOD and other services (e.g., 2-way devices), right? But since only OCAP devices are going to be certified as 2-way hosts, perhaps this is how they've chosen to label the CC2.0 cards? I.e., "this is the only card that you stick in an OCAP device."
But I thought the CC2.0 spec wasn't finalized?
Then again, isn't Samsung's first OCAP TV supposed to be released in time for the holidays? So maybe Moto put these out early to get a jump on the OCAP market?
Do we have anyone who could contact Motorola and get a straight answer out of them?
There's no such thing as "one-way" versus "two-way" CableCARDs. The *cards* have nothing to do with the two-way communication; that's a property of the host device, so if someone's calling them "one-way", that's total BS. They're either S-Cards (single-stream) or M-Cards (multi-stream); maybe the "Open Cable" labeled card somehow made its way out of a CableCARD-equipped cable box?TexasGrillChef said:All I know... is in the TABLE they listed One way Cable Cards... AND Open Cable Cable Cards.
On the Truck... the Installed had 3 Different MOTO cards. One that said "Cable Card" one that said "Multi-Stream Cable CArd" and one that said "Open Cable Cable Card". All THREE cards were MOTO cards.
Since that's not a property of the cards, but of the host device, someone's lying here, either Time-Warner or Moto; neither would really surprise me.TexasGrillChef said:In the Table... The Open Cable Cable Card WOULD support VOD, On Demand, & SDV.
TexasGrillChef said:The guy on the phone said they would NOT currently work with any TiVo currently released. But then again what does he really know?
Probably not a lot, as is the case with most of the cableco employees I've dealt with re: CableCARDs.
No. The TiVo itself is a UDCP device - the UD means "uni-directional". It doesn't have the logic to send to the cable company, and the licensing terms (CHILA) under which it was made and licensed don't permit that anyway. Again, the *card* doesn't make the device unidirectional or bidirectional, the logic in the host device does. If the cableco is trying to tell you this, they're confused and/or outright lying.TexasGrillChef said:If they WOULD work with a TiVo... either S3 or TivoHD... then THAT would solve our SDV/VoD/ & Ondemand issues with TiVo as the Open Cable Cable card would support those. Or so they are claiming.
Here is the TWC Link
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html
I have actually SEEN the physical card & held it in my hands. On the Moto Sticker it said
"Open Cable Cable Card 2.0, Multi-Stream 2way device"
TGC
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html
I have actually SEEN the physical card & held it in my hands. On the Moto Sticker it said
"Open Cable Cable Card 2.0, Multi-Stream 2way device"
TGC
That web page states that cable card does not support DVR functionality.
Do you also agree with TW that there are no DVRs that support cable cards?
Al
Do you also agree with TW that there are no DVRs that support cable cards?
Al
If you look at figures 5.6-1 and 5.7-1 (pg 19 & 20) of the CalbeCARD 2.0 Spec, it can be seen that there is OOB traffic going both ways through the CableCARD. Its been a while since I was a practicing engineer but it looks two-way to me.TexasGrillChef said:Here is the TWC Link
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html
I have actually SEEN the physical card & held it in my hands. On the Moto Sticker it said
"Open Cable Cable Card 2.0, Multi-Stream 2way device"
TGC
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I07-060803.pdf
demon said:There's no such thing as "one-way" versus "two-way" CableCARDs. The *cards* have nothing to do with the two-way communication; that's a property of the host device, so if someone's calling them "one-way", that's total BS. They're either S-Cards (single-stream) or M-Cards (multi-stream); maybe the "Open Cable" labeled card somehow made its way out of a CableCARD-equipped cable box?
My understanding was that the host device must support 2-way communication, and the CableCard must support 2-way encryption -- which a 1.0 spec of either M or S variety does not -- in order to be OCAP compliant.
Am I mistaken?
EDIT: I take it back. demon is right. Very useful CableLabs primer on CableCard.
Beginning June 6, 2005, all CableLabs certifications of OpenCable products have been tied to CableCARD-2.0 (or CCIF-2.0) specifications. As of that date, new Cards and new Hosts have been certified to support the CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 specifications.
So I'm guessing demon is right. What you have here is a CableCard that Motorola produced, probably in conjunction with their own Open Cable Host 2.0 STB (thanks to the integrated security ban), that they are specifying for use in that kind of device (in other words, they sold the STB with this card in it, but this card was "liberated" at some point). It's essentially just an M-Card, but for whatever reason, Motorola is "certifying" it for use in an 2.0 Host device (which is Motorola marketing speak).The fourth type of Host product that can make use of the CableCARD module is an OpenCable Host 2.0 device. This device is licensed by CableLabs under CHILA and the requirements for this product are found in the Host-CFR-2.0 specification. The main difference between this product and that which is defined by the FCC is the support for two-way functionality. The OpenCable Host 2.0 device specifications include all of the requirements necessary to support two-way cable services (e.g. video-on-demand or switched digital video), while UDCP devices do not. It is important to note that it is the receiver implementation that determines support for two-way services, not the functionality of the CableCARD module. All CableCARD modules are two-way capable.
The two-way OpenCable Host products originally were required to support the S-Mode interface and were exclusively an S-Host. The first two-way OpenCable products certified followed these requirements. Later requirements were changed for OpenCable devices mandating the M-Mode interface as a baseline.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
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