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My HD HomeRun tuners all require a LAN and internet connection whether 3.0 or not. And yes it's creepy but there will be hacks to get around it in many cases.
I'm not sure they do require an Internet connection. But, to be clear -- for those who don't know -- the HDHomeRuns require a LAN connection because that's how they work -- they're network tuners. They don't have video outputs.
 

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I'm not sure they do require an Internet connection. But, to be clear -- for those who don't know -- the HDHomeRuns require a LAN connection because that's how they work -- they're network tuners. They don't have video outputs.
If they don't see the Internet you can't even edit their channel lists even though that's local on your LAN. Go figure. And of course various Silicon Dust guide-related features wouldn't work. I think there are other limitations, but I haven't tried that too often, and in fact I normally use them only with Channels DVR. But yes they have to be on a LAN at minimum.
 

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If they don't see the Internet you can't even edit their channel lists even though that's local on your LAN.
I think that's an app thing rather than a device thing. (And, you don't need to use their app.)

But yes they have to be on a LAN at minimum.
Right, and I'm trying to suggest that that isn't "creepy". As headless tuners, they could hardly work any other way.
 

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I think that's an app thing rather than a device thing. (And, you don't need to use their app.)
[Edited:] Actually now that I think about it we're both right, kinda sorta. You can also access the tuners' control panels via a web browser, but when there's no internet you can't do that following standard instructions, which make you go through the company's website. There is a way around that, but I only know about it from this forum. It's a longstanding complaint that Silicon Dust only tells people to use the internet for this.

Right, and I'm trying to suggest that that isn't "creepy". As headless tuners, they could hardly work any other way.
When I said "creepy" I was referring to future plans to track viewing habits for behaviorally-targeted advertising and general research via that internet connection. I wasn't referring to the local LAN connection, and I wasn't even referring to premium/pay-per-view OTA broadcasting that would be enabled by the internet connection.
 

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I just bought one to try with Plex only to find out after that Plex does not support the Dolby audio yet.
I am just using the atsc 1.0 channels here with my flex 4k and Plex DVR right now.. since Here in the DC area the picture quality is basically the same as the atsc 3.0 channels. So hopefully plex gets the ac-4 audio issue worked out later this year.


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Looks like Louisville has finally made at least one "coming soon" deployment list. Haven't been able to figure out which station(s) has announced, or when. I have one TV with a 3.0 tuner, so I'll be able to keep check it out then it happens.

Eventually, I'll upgrade my DVR. Surely if TiVo had plans for a 3.0 device they would've said so by now wouldn't they?
 

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Surely if TiVo had plans for a 3.0 device they would've said so by now wouldn't they?
Probably not, because then some potential customers would not purchase the current products.
 
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A couple months ago I ended my 30 plus year relationship with the cable company. I got tired of the prices going up and the quality going down. Working from home and setting up new computers and downloading updates. I kept going over the data limit and they could not care less. About 2 years ago they cut the cable TV bandwidth in half. So a half hour program recorded on the TiVo was like half the size and the down grade and quality was quite noticeable. Many years ago I had looked at over the air on the TiVo Romeo and it seemed okay but cable was easier.

I went ahead and set up a larger antenna in the attic and can receive all the local channels, but I was pretty disappointed in the quality. They've all added numerous subchannels so the bandwidth available is pretty low and all the channels are soft and fuzzy barely any better than standard definition. I also moved to AT&T fiber as there's no data overages and for about 30% of the price of what Xfinity/Comcast wanted (not including their BS overages) for data and cable. I get twice the download speed and like 10 times the upload speed. I still use the over-the-air TiVo for some of the prime time and late night shows, but then sign up for a month or two of a streaming service to watch other programs in actual 4K or 1080p.

ATSC 3 sounds cool and all, but isn't it going to have the same problem we currently do, they're going to have a bunch of subchannels and the 4K video is going to look like an upscaled DVD? Streaming beats over the air and cable channels by a large margin but even it gets bested by 4k Blu-ray with a small bump in audio and picture quality.
 

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Well, I set up my Plex to record some shows with the new standard just to see if video improved. I knew I would have no sound as Plex so far does not have the Dolby License or codec so far to do audio. They say the ball is in Dolby's court but it has taken 1 year and so far nothing but complaints from the masses. Here in the DC/Balt metro all channels are streaming from just 2 antennas, one from each city. They share the bandwidth. Video quality has improved. Is it earth shaking, amazingly so much better? NO! And it may never be. This is the U.S. of A. where private industry does the barest minimum to make the most profit for the longest time until they are forced to change by law. This is the freedom people all scream about. The freedom to be mediocre. So sad.
 

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ATSC 3 sounds cool and all, but isn't it going to have the same problem we currently do, they're going to have a bunch of subchannels and the 4K video is going to look like an upscaled DVD? Streaming beats over the air and cable channels by a large margin but even it gets bested by 4k Blu-ray with a small bump in audio and picture quality.
Welcome to the cord-cutting club. It remains to be seen, there is reason to hope that ATSC 3.0 will bring significantly better picture quality due to the massively more efficient HEVC codec combined with more bandwidth available in a 6mhz channel. OTA varies widely market to market, and while the encoding technology has gotten much better and more efficient, they still cram more than they should on many channels in many markets. The encoding technology is amazing, as today 12mbps looks amazing, probably as good as a full 19mbps channel did 20 years ago, yet the channels have gone down to 6-9mbps per channel in many cases due to sharing channels and then cramming in subchannels on top of that.
 
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The encoding is much better than ancient MPEG2, but the HEVC encoding ATSC 3.0 uses is already outdated. It came out way back in 2013. Even more efficient codecs are in use now (like AV1) with some of the streaming services.

Although H.266/VVC is the direct successor to HEVC/H.265. But AV1 is royalty free.
 

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Welcome to the cord-cutting club. It remains to be seen, there is reason to hope that ATSC 3.0 will bring significantly better picture quality due to the massively more efficient HEVC codec combined with more bandwidth available in a 6mhz channel. OTA varies widely market to market, and while the encoding technology has gotten much better and more efficient, they still cram more than they should on many channels in many markets. The encoding technology is amazing, as today 12mbps looks amazing, probably as good as a full 19mbps channel did 20 years ago, yet the channels have gone down to 6-9mbps per channel in many cases due to sharing channels and then cramming in subchannels on top of that.
That is the concern though. Regardless of how good the codec is, they're still going to be the incentive for them to cram as many channels in as they can before they get enough complaints. The number of home shopping channels being broadcast to my area is truly depressing. For better or worse, the vast majority of people just don't seem to care. I've never researched it, but I remember many years ago. The service providers got the definition and/or the requirements of HD changed so they could over-compress. The over the air stuff I'm looking at being 1080 or 720 is a pure technicality. It is not HD.

The encoding is much better than ancient MPEG2, but the HEVC encoding ATSC 3.0 uses is already outdated. It came out way back in 2013. Even more efficient codecs are in use now (like AV1) with some of the streaming services.

Although H.266/VVC is the direct successor to HEVC/H.265. But AV1 is royalty free.
Yeah, that's what I had read, most reviews of AV1 weren't that it looked any better or was more efficient but it's royalty free.
 

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That is the concern though. Regardless of how good the codec is, they're still going to be the incentive for them to cram as many channels in as they can before they get enough complaints. The number of home shopping channels being broadcast to my area is truly depressing. For better or worse, the vast majority of people just don't seem to care. I've never researched it, but I remember many years ago. The service providers got the definition and/or the requirements of HD changed so they could over-compress. The over the air stuff I'm looking at being 1080 or 720 is a pure technicality. It is not HD.


Yeah, that's what I had read, most reviews of AV1 weren't that it looked any better or was more efficient but it's royalty free.
There are numerous studies and anecdotal evidence that most people don't care about picture quality, as long as the sound is decent. As long as you can understand the audio and it's without distortion, image quality be damned.

All the zoom interviews on TV over the last 2 years bares that out.
 

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No, AV1 has been found to be 30% or so more efficient than HEVC (H.265), which is the dominant 4K codec in use now.
It's been a while since I read up on it, but some of the early testing a while back, people were saying that the claimed improvement in bandwidth savings wasn't really there. Depending on how picky you are its closer to 15% or about the same. It's supposed to have more issues with macro blocking and blotchiness, especially in the background.

Anyone know what the Wheel of Time show was using on Amazon Prime? It looked really bad and made me wonder if it was using a new codec of some kind. I thought they or Netflix was supposed to start experimenting with AV1 soon but then something about no HDR support?

It's getting more and more complicated, the way they're taking advantage of perceived sharpness in areas of the image deemed more important, etc.

That's what I noticed the most in the current "4K" streaming is the blockiness and or dancing fuzzy patterns in the background. In some ways, I think 1080p Blu-ray looks better. Sometimes even sharpness, sitting on the couch about 9 ft from the 77-in TV, it's tough to tell the difference between 4K and 1080p Blu-ray.
 

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The encoding is much better than ancient MPEG2, but the HEVC encoding ATSC 3.0 uses is already outdated. It came out way back in 2013. Even more efficient codecs are in use now (like AV1) with some of the streaming services.
It's still supposedly 4x the efficiency of MPEG-2, which also allows for larger stat mux groups that provide better PQ in the same relative amount of bandwidth.

That is the concern though. Regardless of how good the codec is, they're still going to be the incentive for them to cram as many channels in as they can before they get enough complaints.
To an extent, yes, but I'm hoping that the better efficiency, slower degradation, and larger stat mux groups that HEVC allows for will result in better VQ.

There are numerous studies and anecdotal evidence that most people don't care about picture quality, as long as the sound is decent. As long as you can understand the audio and it's without distortion, image quality be damned.
Yes, unfortunately most people are utterly oblivious to that which is right in front of them, both audio and video. Most people also have TVs running on default settings, are too small to achieve the correct viewing angles based on THX specification (or any other specification for that matter), are too high off the floor, or have a myriad of other problems.
 

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Omaha just went ATSC 3.0 today. Can a new converter box be added to my OTA TiVO Roamio to help the NBC station reception in my area as well as to remedy the flyover plane issue here, or will I have to wait t=for TiVo to release a new DVR with 3.0 tuners inside it?
 

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Omaha just went ATSC 3.0 today. Can a new converter box be added to my OTA TiVO Roamio to help the NBC station reception in my area as well as to remedy the flyover plane issue here, or will I have to wait t=for TiVo to release a new DVR with 3.0 tuners inside it?
There's no converter box that will work with a TiVo, and no sign of a 3.0-compatible TiVo but of course they wouldn't announce that too early as people might stop buying current models. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting though.

I know of one product called ZapperBox that will plug directly into your TV's HDMI jack, and another called the HD HomeRun Flex 4K that plugs into your network. There are free HD HomeRun apps for computers and handheld devices that you can use to watch TV from the Flex 4K, and the Flex 4K it can become a DVR with addition of an external hard disk and a small annual fee. It can also serve other TiVo replacement player/DVR software like Channels DVR, Plex, or Emby which also require monthly/annual fees.

I find Channels DVR much better than the HD HomeRun software as a TiVo replacement and I prefer it over the others too, but like everyone else they're still working out the bugs in their ATSC 3.0 implementation — and there are also 3.0 problems and inconsistencies at the broadcasters — so I'm kind of glad 3.0 hasn't yet rolled out in my area.
 
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Yes. I have an HDHomeRun Flex 4K. And use it with my Plex DVR. But because of the AC-4 audio issue. Where the vast majority of devices cannot decode it. And with it also not working with Plex. I don't record any of the five ATSC 3.0 channels broadcast here in the DC area.

Plus, since they are all sharing the same frequency. The quality is basically the same as their ATSC 1.0 counterparts. So there would really be no advantage for me to be record the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts anyway.
 
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