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... It is just about impossible for even find anyone who installs OTA antennas. ...
Used to be anyplace that sold TVs also sold and installed outside antennas. That all started to change in the 1980s and now no one local even sells outside antennas (Radio Shack was the last place) and finding someone to install one is - as you said- nearly impossible. My brother who lives in rural MN had a tower and antenna installed back in the late 90s, which works great for him, he get channels from 3 markets. I live in rural NY and have reception problems with good deep fringe antenna I installed on my 1 store house. My neighbor has no issues with a similar antenna on their 2 story house. So I thought I would put up a 30-40 foot tower, really easy to buy one over the internet impossible to find someone to install it and re-setup my antenna. I can not even find someone to come and check my current setup to see if there is an issue they could fix.
 
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Used to be anyplace that sold TVs also sold and installed outside antennas. That all started to change in the 1980s and now no one local even sells outside antennas (Radio Shack was the last place) and finding someone to install one is - as you said- nearly impossible. My brother who lives in rural MN had a tower and antenna installed back in the late 90s, which works great for him, he get channels from 3 markets. I live in rural NY and have reception problems with good deep fringe antenna I installed on my 1 store house. My neighbor has no issues with a similar antenna on their 2 story house. So I thought I would put up a 30-40 foot tower, really easy to buy one over the internet impossible to find someone to install it and re-setup my antenna. I can not even find someone to come and check my current setup to see if there is an issue they could fix.
I have a friend whose 'neighbor' was having some roofing done by a contractor that had a 'aerial lift platform' truck on site. They moved the truck to his property bolted a 'mast mounted' antenna to the platform put it I believe 30 or so feet in the air with 'him' and confirmed signal that made him happy as he!!. He bought a used tower locally and pretty much engineered his install.

I'd think it pretty easy to find an individual that owns such a lift truck to do a test. I wouldn't think that difficult to get a tower installed. Watch the purchasing of used tower components, there are though businesses that actually do and 'certify' condition of what they sell.
 

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That's all fine for you and me, but not for the vast majority of the population, IMHO. I have NO ONE in my entire two sides of the family who could do ANY of the steps you provided in your reply, nor have ANY idea that ANY of this stuff (like HD Homerun) exists and have NO CLUE how to go about instlling it. Yes, they really CAN NOT do all that easy stuff--for you and me--to get it all to work. It is just about impossible for even find anyone who installs OTA antennas. It took me months to find ONE guy who did (at the time I could not dare go on the roof--now I can). Also, some of these prospective users are older and do NOT go on roofs anymore no have the younger brain power to "figure out how to connect and set stuff up."

Getting a connected device set-up is about the limit these people can do--along with selecting the app to launch the streaming service--let's not even get into them setting things up to record streaming content because that requires a degree for them. Even adding an external HDD is WAY beyond their capacity, or even a USB OTA tuner. Yes, simple for you and me, but not for them. So, until the installer man comes into their homes to make all this possible, it aint happening in the necessary numbers to produce a tipping point. :). People find things like HDHomeRun and even the Fire Recast (which did not sell as well as Amazon was hoping likely because the install process was way beyond who most people can handle) are just too complicated for the vast majority, so they don't get it even if they know it exists.
The concept I have in mind is more like Tablo. I set one of those up myself and it was super simple. No more difficult than setting up an OTA TiVo. It had a single fold-out instruction page with big pictures.

As for installing an OTA antenna, part of the promise of ATSC 3.0 is that it will increase the number of folks who can reliably get reception with simple indoor antennas (thanks to 3.0's lack of multipath interference and also the possibility of single-frequency networks with multiple smaller towers spread around town).

I don't think complexity is the issue, it's awareness of the product and the value of what it offers versus the entry price. Setting up an indoor antenna and installing a gateway tuner (with the option of plugging in a USB hard drive or flash drive for DVR) is definitely do-able for most Americans if the software and installation instructions are user-friendly (such as with Tablo). Sure, there will always be folks who can't or won't do that, just like there are folks who use an iPhone but won't initially set it up and instead rely on the folks at the Verizon store to do it. But those folks could get a grandson or neighbor to do it or, assuming there was sufficient public demand for OTA TV, hire someone such as Best Buy's Geek Squad to do the set-up.

I don't think Europeans are smarter or more tech-savvy than Americans but they use free and subscription OTA TV to a far greater extent than we do. The difference is that it's a well-known and understood option there. So again, I don't think technical complexity is the main barrier for ATSC 3.0 adoption, I just think it's public awareness of it combined with 3.0 being a sufficiently compelling offering in the first place.

As for installation of outdoor OTA antennas, I doubt that becomes all that common again. But a big chunk of US households, maybe even a majority, should be able to receive their local 3.0 stations with an indoor antenna. Those are really the targets for OTA adoption, not the folks who have to put a big antenna on their roof.
 

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The way the government describes the economic state of this country, you would think everybody would be dropping cable and streaming to go with OTA and antennas would be flying off the shelves. Of course around here we can't find people to fill jobs. I guess they are all at home waiting for their government money to pay their streaming bill.
 

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I switched to OTA this February after years of paying for limited basic from crapcast. I was only able to get one channel good with indoor antennas.
As to companies to install antennas there is one that I found in my area but they wanted $600 to install a small to medium size VHF-hi/UHF combo antenna. I ended up doing my own install and selected two antennas, a Stellar Labs Deep fringe VHF-hi Yagi and an antennas direct bowtie for UHF. Cost me almost half and I got bigger more powerful antennas. I would recommend the ANtenna Man from youtube if you need help with what antenna will work best for your location.

I am looking forward to the change to ATSC 3.0 just for the better reception that's possible. We have Baltimore, MD that went live with it last month. that market is a neighboring one to me but nothing in my area. being this change is not mandatory the roll out is going to be slow. Full power stations have to keep the 1.0 signal up for at least 5 years after they start broadcasting 3.0 and low power stations can cut directly over with out that requirement.
I did ask Tivo via email about an ATSC 3.0 device and their response was that it was in development for the future, no timeline given and thanks for expressing interest in future products. Any device they put out in the next 5-10 years will likely be a hybrid 1.0/3.0 tuner like silicon dust since even in markets where 3.0 has went live already 1.0 will be a thing for 5 years or more.

As far as 4k content I think we will see very little, like special events, major sports events and such, mostly likely nothing like South Korea has that I was reading about. We will likely see more HD and more subchannels for the rest of this decade.
 

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Any device they put out in the next 5-10 years will likely be a hybrid 1.0/3.0 tuner like silicon dust since even in markets where 3.0 has went live already 1.0 will be a thing for 5 years or more.
The SiliconDust quad tuner (two ATSC 3.0/1.0 tuners, two ATSC 1.0 only tuners) was a compromise due to pricing at the time of design (they could have gone 4 ATSC3.0/1.0 tuners, but the device would have been close to double the price). These days, I would expect any newly designed devices to be only the combined ATSC 3.0/1.0 tuners given the availability, at a cheaper price point, of such universal tuners (in fact the newest tuner silicon is universal across both the US and other world delivery systems (DVB-T/T2), just needing the appropriate firmware to be loaded into the tuner for the country to be used in, so one tuner to rule them all).

As to when TiVo will get the message and start delivering actual product is anyone's guess (ATSC 3.0 program delivery has other complexities than just a tuner demod).
 

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The way the government describes the economic state of this country, you would think everybody would be dropping cable and streaming to go with OTA and antennas would be flying off the shelves. Of course around here we can't find people to fill jobs. I guess they are all at home waiting for their government money to pay their streaming bill.
Ease of OTA reception is greatly exagerrated. Millions of people will never get OTA because the signals have to follow the laws of physics. Signals don't reach in deep valleys and don't go through mountains. People who live in towers have no outside antennae options. In many urban areas OTA is D.O.A.
 

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Ease of OTA reception is greatly exagerrated. Millions of people will never get OTA because the signals have to follow the laws of physics. Signals don't reach in deep valleys and don't go through mountains. People who live in towers have no outside antenna options. In many urban areas OTA is D.O.A.
Yes the signals do have limits. some areas are remote and don't receive any signals or require large antennas. as far as OTA being dead in urban areas I'm not sure how, you would need to give an example situation.
for people in towers and apartment buildings that don't have windows facing the right direction or something there used to be a thing called a shared building antenna and a connection in each apartment. I'm sure with the rise of cable many of them systems were replaced or not maintained. If they existed before cable they can again if renters would express interest in that building owners would maybe install them again.

I think we are moving to a time when OTA tv is going to continue to see growth in use for years to come. In other countries like Britain, Italy and most of europe antenna TV and FTA satellite is still what people use more then cable tv.
 

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Millions of people will never get OTA because the signals have to follow the laws of physics.
While Scotty famously said "Ye cannae change the laws of physics" he always found a way to side step those laws later in the episode.

Similarly, SFN (Single Frequency Networks) can help solve the geographic challenges of some locations, and with the ability of ATSC 3.0 to combine all available sources of the bitstreams (from possibly multiple SFN transmitters, and even the Internet), coverage *can* be quite a bit better. Of course, not all areas will need, or benefit from, all those options, and not all stations will spend the money needed to do the build outs, but IRT ATSC 3.0 capabilities, "it's in there".
 

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The possibility of improved reception with ATSC 3.0 is real, but not guaranteed. In D.C., there's a low-power station that I had never, ever received when it was broadcasting in ATSC 1.0. They switched to 3.0, and now it comes in rock-solid. (I don't think they increased their power or anything.)

In Baltimore, though, there's a new 3.0 station carrying multiple channels, that fails to match the strength of the 1.0 versions. AFAICT, that's mainly because it's using higher data rates, so more channels will fit, but it makes the signal less robust.
 

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The possibility of improved reception with ATSC 3.0 is real, but not guaranteed. In D.C., there's a low-power station that I had never, ever received when it was broadcasting in ATSC 1.0. They switched to 3.0, and now it comes in rock-solid. (I don't think they increased their power or anything.)
COFDM is in general far more robust, but as with all else, your reception will vary (and while COFDM is in general more robust, there are a couple of cases where it can perform poorer than 8VSB).
In Baltimore, though, there's a new 3.0 station carrying multiple channels, that fails to match the strength of the 1.0 versions. AFAICT, that's mainly because it's using higher data rates, so more channels will fit, but it makes the signal less robust.
ATSC 3.0 allows (but does not require) a broadcaster to offer multiple PLPs (Physical Layer Pipes) which can transmit streams at different robustness/bitrates, allowing (say) a high bitrate "4K" quality stream and at the same time a low bitrate "SD" quality stream, and a receiver that can only reliably receive at the lower bitrate can, at least, see something. The initial lighthouse stations around the country are often still experimenting with what will work best for their situation(s), but it is not uncommon they all start with single high(er) bitrates (especially when as a lighthouse station they have lots of stations trying to fit into the same stream), and only later may start experimenting with additional PLPs or additional SFN transmitters.

In the end, ATSC 3.0 (NextGen TV) is still a work in progress.
 

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Yes the signals do have limits. some areas are remote and don't receive any signals or require large antennas. as far as OTA being dead in urban areas I'm not sure how, you would need to give an example situation.
for people in towers and apartment buildings that don't have windows facing the right direction or something there used to be a thing called a shared building antenna and a connection in each apartment. I'm sure with the rise of cable many of them systems were replaced or not maintained. If they existed before cable they can again if renters would express interest in that building owners would maybe install them again.

I think we are moving to a time when OTA tv is going to continue to see growth in use for years to come. In other countries like Britain, Italy and most of europe antenna TV and FTA satellite is still what people use more then cable tv.
Streaming is the 800 pound gorilla and work from home has become a must. Many people are going broadband only with their cable. Building owners don't like to pay for things they don't have to. Streaming and broadband will crush cable tv and OTA. It's 2021 OTA is on borrowed time. OTT is the future.
 

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It's 2021 OTA is on borrowed time.
As long as OTA has the DMA rules (exclusive regional monopoly on "national network" content), they can make money just by sitting on their transmitters, as cable and OTT providers must pay for the re-transmission rights. And as long as the OTAs in the major markets are O&O there will be contractual tie-ins that force the cable and OTT providers to include expensive content in their plans (another way to print money).

So, as Mark Twain was once misquoted as saying: "The report of my death has been grossly exaggerated", so too, is the death of OTA.
 

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COFDM is in general far more robust, but as with all else, your reception will vary (and while COFDM is in general more robust, there are a couple of cases where it can perform poorer than 8VSB).
One of the biggest reception advantages that ATSC 3.0/COFDM has over ATSC 1.0/8VSB is that multipath interference does not exist with the former while it's a major problem with the latter. There are millions of Americans who live in urban/suburban areas where they can pick up all their major local 1.0 stations with sufficient signal strength with an indoor antenna but multipath interference often makes certain channels glitchy to the point of unwatchable with major pixellation and audio drop-outs.

I had to spend a ton of time over the years experimenting with different antennas positioned in different spots to minimize multipath on various stations. I've never been able to fully eliminate it but I've gotten to the point where it's only rarely a problem now. Shame there's not more worth watching on the broadcast networks these days, ha.
 

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I've been viewing TV from an antenna for a few years now. I have on old Radioshack rotor that works well but there are occasions when drop off occurs
and can't be fixed so that is why I bought into LOCAST for $5/month donations. We use it rarely but it is there as a backup. It's a peace maker as my wife didn't want to give up cable tv even though we hardly ever watched non local TV. Saving hundreds a year.
 

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I read something today about NextGen tv being available in my market (Washington DC metro area) by this summer, and obviously thought about TiVo. I have an antenna in the attic with my Roamio OTA for many years now, which works flawlessly, and I get all channels available locally.

Does anyone know if TiVo is planning to launch a ATSC 3.0 compatible DVR?
Well, there was this in 2019. If the headline is to be believed, this is a dongle that will work with existing DVR's.

As was said above, proof of concept is a long way to being able to buy one ourselves, but at least they were thinking about it.

https://zatznotfunny.com/2019-04/tivo-atsc-3/
 

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As was said above, proof of concept is a long way to being able to buy one ourselves, but at least they were thinking about it.
The PoC dongle would have been a way to offer existing customers a way to preserve their existing investment in a recent (Bolt/Edge?) TiVo. However, that was then, and this is now, and if TiVo was going to go down that route one might have expected an announcement of a product by now, rather than the (lack of announcement of) staff reductions in the departments that would have been driving such. As I don't see how the PoC dongle would be of interest to the operator market (where TiVo is still investing substantial engineering resources), I would certainly be surprised if such a product gets released at this point.
 

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It's 2021 OTA is on borrowed time. OTT is the future.
I disagree, once ATSC 3.0 is the standard, it's streaming and Cable that are going to die. The new found virtual bandwidth will allow OTA broadcasters to compete with Cable and Streaming services like never before.
 
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I disagree, once ATSC 3.0 is the standard, it's streaming and Cable that are going to die. The new found virtual bandwidth will allow OTA broadcasters to compete with Cable and Streaming services like never before.
See how many people under 40 know what is OTA is, let alone use it. OTA will die with the boomers.
 

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All ATSC 3.0 will do is let stations pack more channels into their frequency allocation. Which they will do, because those extra channels will be to sell more ads.

It's the same premise that HD Radio was supposed to offer to FM stations. Instead, stations used it as a method ot sell more ads.
 
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