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Discussion Starter · #6,761 ·
Haven't specifically tried with Roamios, but historically the internal TiVo web server doesn't like to dish out more than 1 recording at a time, and attempting to do so often breaks it to the point you need to reboot the TiVo before TTG will work again. I doubt that has changed since TiVo hasn't messed with the internal web server for a long, long time other than to fix the time bomb issue about a year ago.

If you feel adventurous you can always try it yourself by starting a download in kmttg, then start another kmttg window and try a download of a different show from the same Roamio, but be warned this could well lead you to have to reboot the Roamio to restore TTG functionality.
 

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One think I have found is that, if you had downloaded in TS format on the roamio and switched to PS, the server would either crash or stop working and only a reboot would get it working to download again. Only getting/refreshing the NPL will work during this state.
 

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OK, I guess I can't prove from the FAQs that you can actually download to multiple Tivos at once.. It says this about streaming "You can stream up to four shows simultaneously to four mobile devices in your home. " and it also says you can download to one iOS device outside the home while others are streaming or watching inside the home.

I sure *suspect* it will allow you to do it... I guess I can try with my iPhone, iPad, and other Tivo at the same time.

Even with the (internal or external) Stream, they're all essentially downloading via the web service, aren't they?

Is there any way I can, at my own risk, play with letting kmttg try multiple downloads?

I'm just curious...

Oh, and was there any more info about resume downloads really being available? I thought a few weeks ago it was working for you again..
 

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Discussion Starter · #6,764 ·
Multi Room Streaming (MRS) is different than TiVo To Go (TTG) in that it is just transferring bits. TTG has a lot more work to do as it involves decrypt, demux, remux, encrypt, a process which historically has consumed a lot of CPU cycles which is why it is faster with each TiVo series getting a better CPU. 2 or more MRS streams at once have been possible ever since MRS first came out. The iOS streaming uses MRS to get stream from the TiVo, and then Stream hardware to transcode to H.264, so it's MRS based as well. So you're comparing apples and oranges.

As I said, you can test multiple downloads at once pretty easily by starting 2 or more kmttg windows and downloading 1 show in each.

Resume downloads is somewhat flaky but working with 20.4.1 and has been re-enabled in source code in preparation for next release. It seems to work best using "java downloads" mode, not curl, and you cannot enable "Use RPC to get NPL when possible" option if you want to use it, since RPC data doesn't have the byte offset needed for resume.
 

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Cool, thanks. I hope you can somehow make it clear in the preferences that resume & "Use RPC to get NPL when possible" are contradictory options.

"starting 2 or more kmttg windows". I'll have to try at home, but I don't know if this is built into the app, or if I have to duplicate the app on the Mac. On the Mac, kmttg acts close to a "regular application", which normally can only have one running at a time... If you're a regular app that can make multiple windows, I never tried that before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6,766 ·
Don't know about Mac, but on Windows and linux you can run multiple kmttg sessions at once, so I don't see why it wouldn't work on Mac. Also, you can always use pyTivo or just a web browser to start another download while kmttg is already downloading one, it doesn't have to be multiple kmttg sessions.

I do have a note in the tooltip for "Use RPC to get NPL when possible" about Resume Downloads issue. Unfortunately many people seem to ignore the tooltip text and will end up learning the hard way.
 

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Just curious - is there anyway to make kmttg request a show as a MRS file instead of a TTG file? So it would get to kmttg faster and then decrypt there? Or does MRS not allow it to send files that way?
No. Streaming and transfer are two entirely different things. Even streaming to a TiVo from a computer (which is possible) is very different from streaming from a TiVo to a computer (which isn't).
 

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Just curious - is there anyway to make kmttg request a show as a MRS file instead of a TTG file? So it would get to kmttg faster and then decrypt there? Or does MRS not allow it to send files that way?
I think you are confusing yourself between MRS/TTG versus Program Stream/Transport Stream. Program Stream is standard in that is what format Tivo files have always been transferred as. Transport stream is fairly new and transfers are faster than when using the Program Stream.

I think kmttg can be set to pull either way, but I don't know what/where that setting is.
 

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Apologies if this is not the right thread/forum ... I need help with a problematic workflow that begins with kmttg and ends with Home Sharing videos from iTunes to my iPad.

The videos, by design, wind up with closed captions in the form of soft subtitles. When I turn on the subtitles track while watching a video as it is streamed to the iPad, I get irritating pauses. It looks as if the scrubber bar has run out of buffered material at each pause point.

If I turn off the subtitles, I can watch the video pause-free.

So the act of turning on subtitles seems to bottleneck the stream at some point. I can't be sure where the bottleneck is located.

Here' show I derive these videos. After using kmttg to download, decrypt, and extract captions from a TV show, I use VideoReDo to manually do a QuickStream Fix and trim off the video's unwanted material. I save the result as a .mpg file (in case I need it later) and then I also save it as a .mp4 file, using an appropriate profile whose parameters (resolution, average bitrate, max bitrate, etc.) I have tried to adjust to get rid of the problem, with no success yet. (I can furnish details if necessary.)

Then I remux the .mp4 file to add in the .srt file, the one containing the closed captions that kmttg created. I use a Mac utility called Subler for that. The result is a .m4v file that I add to my iTunes library. I can stream that file to my iPad's Videos app via its Sharing capability. As I say, the play of the stream typically gets interrupted by unwanted pauses, but only when I tell the Videos app to show the soft subtitles.

I have one video that I made some time ago using, if I remember correctly, HandBrake to both transcode .mpg to .mp4 and incorporate captions as soft subtitles. When I stream it while displaying soft subs, no pauses. But remaking it using the workflow I just described has given me a video with unwanted streaming pauses.

I realize this could be an issue involving too high an average bitrate or too high a maximum bitrate, but it looks like it's not that simple. The video that does not pause has a slightly higher data rate, according to QuickTime Player, than the one that pauses: 2.44 Mbits/s vs. 2.40 Mbits/s. Of course, this does not tell me what the maximum bitrate is, so these things are quite hard to pin down.

Any help that anyone can give me insofar as how to further diagnose this problem and eventually triumph over it will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance ...



Edit for additional information:

I made a very, very low bitrate version of the file alluded to above that streams fine until soft subs are turned on, but that tolerates soft subs in its earlier version that (I think) HandBrake made. This newer, "LBR" version has such a low bitrate that it exhibits macroblocking when played. Yet it still gives me streaming pauses when soft subs are on.

So I looked at my router's traffic monitoring stats in Safari on my iPhone while the video was being streamed to my iPad. With subtitles off, the count of bytes being sent and received on the appropriate network connections edged up at a reasonable rate, in the tens of thousands every few seconds. But with subtitles on, those counts started shooting up by the tens of millions every few seconds.

It looks like the data rate for the subtitles track itself is huge! Much greater than the data rate for the video track.

That subtitles track was created by the Subler remux utility, based on a .srt file containing kmttg-derived closed captions. Subler converted that .srt file into a "Tx3g" track in its output file. "Tx3g" is a term I'm not familiar with. Subler says the subtitle track's visual settings use a normal size and also a scaled size of 960x81 pixels, in a file whose video resolution is 960x544. The offset of the subtitles is given as 0x462 pixels, and 462 + 81 is 543, near enough to 544. I'm going to try changing the scaled size to 240x20 with an offset of 0x524, to see if that reduces the overall data rate and wards off streaming pauses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6,772 ·
Eric, I guess a quick test is if you use QuickTime player on your Mac do you get pauses with subs turned on as well, or is it just on the iPad that happens?
I suppose another option if you can't figure it out is to burn captions into the video itself (i.e. they would be permanently part of the video with no option to turn on/off).
 

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Eric, I guess a quick test is if you use QuickTime player on your Mac do you get pauses with subs turned on as well, or is it just on the iPad that happens?
I suppose another option if you can't figure it out is to burn captions into the video itself (i.e. they would be permanently part of the video with no option to turn on/off).
Hi, Kevin,

Thanks for responding so quickly. The streaming pauses are just on the iPad and also on the iPhone. Not in QT Player on the Mac.

Burning in the subtitles is a HandBrake capability but not something the Subler remuxer app can do AFAIK. I am trying to avoid using HB because so much of what it does VideoReDo already does, plus VRD does QuickStream Fix and also lets me edit the video. Also I find HB's user interface hard to figure out.

I'm now fairly sure the problem is the large number of bits Subler puts in its output file's subtitles track, and I'm trying ways to adjust that track's video settings downward so as to reduce the streaming data rate and avoid the pausing. I've cut down the pixel resolution of the subtitles and am definitely getting reduced network bandwidth usage, but still too many kilobytes per second to thwart the pausing. Next I'll cut the subtitles' resolution much more drastically and try that.

Incidentally, FWIW, I seem to be proving that Home Sharing video streaming to an iOS device does not actually stream the subtitles track unless the user turns on that track in the Videos app.
 

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epstewart,

Is there a reason why you are not just leaving the closed captions in place?
James,

As Kevin said above, if I want to use TiVo-derived videos in iTunes and/or on iOS devices — and if I don't necessarily want to burn in captions using HandBrake — I have to jump through hoops. True, if I use pyTivo, I can just hang onto .mpg files with original closed captions. I can move them back to my TiVo at will and then stream or download them to the TiVo app on my iPad. That works! But I confess to being a tinkerer, and I'm looking at how I can go the route I described in my earlier post and get the videos to Home Stream from iTunes to iPad/iPhone, yet not forsake captions/subtitles in the process.
 

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I think the problem is iOS can't handle captions in same format as TiVo likes them, so you have jump through hoops to convert them to something iOS can handle.
While I don't doubt the distinct possibility(probability?) that iOS doesn't support standard closed captions since that would be typical Apple behavior, it might be worth a shot for him to try the following:

1. Download the video from the TiVo in Transport Stream format.

2. Use VideoReDo to edit the .tivo file and save it in a compatible format.

3. Download (or stream) the converted video to your iOS device and see if the closed captions are there.
 

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While I don't doubt the distinct possibility(probability?) that iOS doesn't support standard closed captions since that would be typical Apple behavior, it might be worth a shot for him to try the following:

1. Download the video from the TiVo in Transport Stream format.

2. Use VideoReDo to edit the .tivo file and save it in a compatible format.

3. Download (or stream) the converted video to your iOS device and see if the closed captions are there.
James,

Problem is, the closed captions are not automatically "there" on an iOS device.

That's because the native format playable on iOS devices is MPEG-4, not MPEG-2. Its files have .mp4 or .m4v extensions, not .mpg. The contained video streams are encoded as h.264, aka AVC. So a decrypted .TiVo file, as an .mpg, contains closed captions, but transcoding it to .mp4/.m4v loses the captions. That's why kmttg has a "captions" function that uses CCExtractor to externalize the captions as a .srt file.

The .srt file can be used by HandBrake or by remux utilities like Subler to fold the captions into the .mp4/.m4v file as a stream separate from the video and audio streams. That's what "soft subtitles" are. They can be turned on or off during playback.

Or HandBrake, in particular, can "burn" the captions in the input video (or in a separate .srt file) into the actual .mp4/.m4v output video, so that they always appear and cannot be turned off. That's what "hard subtitles" are.

I could go with hard subs, but I prefer soft subs, if only because I would like to avoid using HandBrake. Remuxing the soft subs into the .mp4 file produced by VideoReDo is quick and easy, using Subler ... but I need to figure out exactly how to do it such that the soft subs, when turned on, don't send the data rate of the streamed video sky high.
 

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I didn't read all of the recent info.. but I do see mention of iPad & closed captions.

There are several ways you can play Tivo recordings on an iPad with closed captions
1) Tivo Stream (separate box for Premiere + Roamio Basic, or built into the other Roamios -- I have a now unnecessary Tivo Stream in case anyone wants to buy it cheap too...) + iOS app. Though to be clear, there are "some" kinds of recordings that don't show up the captions. I don't remember the technical details, but in my layman description, MOST but not all standard def recordings do not show captions, but high def recordings DO.

2) You can play 'raw' files downloaded with kmttg (i.e. decoded MPEG 2 files) with VLC. It will show captions too, though it depends on the speed of your iPad most likely. On my iPad mini, turning captions on makes it really slow.. (But I thought in a previous version of VLC, it was fast -- I may be confusing it with my iPhone though..) At the very least, you could try this. The easiest way to get them from your computer to the iPad is via iTunes. This does NOT need to be the same computer with which you sync the iPad. You go to the apps tab, then the bottom, select VLC, and drag the MPEG 2 files in..

I use both of these, but use #2 for a way to watch news/documentary/some game shows faster than realtime (since VLC allows that too).
 

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James,

Problem is, the closed captions are not automatically "there" on an iOS device.

That's because the native format playable on iOS devices is MPEG-4, not MPEG-2. Its files have .mp4 or .m4v extensions, not .mpg. The contained video streams are encoded as h.264, aka AVC. So a decrypted .TiVo file, as an .mpg, contains closed captions, but transcoding it to .mp4/.m4v loses the captions.
I transfer recordings to the PC in Transport Stream format with kmttg and edit and transcode to h.264 in both mp4 and mkv containers using VideoReDo and the closed captions are intact when I pull or push them to a TiVo via pyTivo with ts=on. That's to a Roamio or Premiere. Haven't tried it with my THD or TiVo 2 which might not work since pyTivo would have to transcode them back to mpeg2.
 
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