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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings to all on this forum! I've read through many of the posts here and have gained a great deal of knowledge but I have not found a definitive answer I'm seeking in regards to the D* HD programming package.

I live in a rural area of the Colorado Rockies and have never had access to OTA programming. Because of this I have been with DTV since the very beginning in 1994 (I'm probably one of their oldest customers). I'm finally making the leap to HD TV & have just purchased a HR10-250 DVR from Newegg (I'm giving up my old UltimateTV DVR - I've read a fair amount of negative things about the HR10-250 on this and other forums so I sure hope I don't regret this move!).

At any rate here is my question:

As part of my programming I've always received the East and West coast network feeds (NBC, ABC, & FOX; I was not allowed to get CBS... Go figure). I also get all my local stations (all the network stations out of Denver). So it's my understanding that if I subscribe to the D* HD programming package ($10.99 / month, it's evidently a requirement to get the $200 rebate on the HR10-250 anyway) I can get the network stations (and HBO & more) in widescreen HiDef. But I'm somewhat confused about the whole MPEG4 thing. So...

1] Are the East & West network feeds currently still using MPEG2 and if so, for how long will they continue to do so?

2] Are my local HD (Denver) network stations already MPEG4? Remember I have no OTA availability so if this is true I can forget HD for local channels with the HR10-250.

3] Should I return the HR10-250 to Newegg while I still can and wait for the HR20?

I've called D* customer reps more than once in regards to this, and I'm getting conflicting info, so if I can get clarification on this I would really appreciate it!

Thanks in advance...

--
Wirelezz
 

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Wirelezz said:
Greetings to all on this forum! I've read through many of the posts here and have gained a great deal of knowledge but I have not found a definitive answer I'm seeking in regards to the D* HD programming package.

I live in a rural area of the Colorado Rockies and have never had access to OTA programming. Because of this I have been with DTV since the very beginning in 1994 (I'm probably one of their oldest customers). I'm finally making the leap to HD TV & have just purchased a HD10-250 DVR from Newegg (I'm giving up my old UltimateTV DVR - I've read a fair amount of negative things about the HD10-250 on this and other forums so I sure hope I don't regret this move!).

At any rate here is my question:

As part of my programming I've always received the East and West coast network feeds (NBC, ABC, & FOX; I was not allowed to get CBS... Go figure). I also get all my local stations (all the network stations out of Denver). So it's my understanding that if I subscribe to the D* HD programming package ($10.99 / month, it's evidently a requirement to get the $200 rebate on the HD10-250 anyway) I can get the network stations (and HBO & more) in widescreen HiDef. But I'm somewhat confused about the whole MPEG4 thing. So...

1] Are the East & West network feeds currently still using MPEG2 and if so, for how long will they continue to do so?

2] Are my local HD (Denver) network stations already MPEG4? Remember I have no OTA availability so if this is true I can forget HD for local channels with the HD10-250.

3] Should I return the HD10-250 to Newegg while I still can and wait for the HD20?

I've called D* customer reps more than once in regards to this, and I'm getting conflicting info, so if I can get clarification on this I would really appreciate it!

Thanks in advance...

--
Wirelezz
OK...first off, the model is HR10-250. :D

1)East & West HD feeds are currently MPEG2, not sure when they plan to make them MPEG4.

2)According to the D* site, Denver locals are not HD yet, but I'm not sure when they will be.

3)Kinda your call. Most will say that at this point, without OTA availability, the HR10-250 isn't worth getting right now. I pretty much agree with that. If you do get national HD's, then it would be ok for now, but it won't be too long before they are in MPEG4 format or Denver HD locals come live and then you will be in not so good shape. Of course, at that point, you may be able to get upgraded by D* to the HR20 relatively cheaply since you already have the HR10.
 

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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Finnstang said:
OK...first off, the model is HR10-250. :D
Whoops, thanks for the correction Finnstang (and your response), I just edited my post to reflect that.

Well, I probably will still go with the HR10 for now as I also just purchased a Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" Plasma and I really don't want to postpone HDTV any longer. Besides I have a wife who just can't wait to see "Lost" & "24" in widescreen HiDef! "If she ain't happy yo ain't happy!" :D

I just read the "Freebies from D*" post and I'm realizing I probably could have done better (maybe) by acquiring a HR10 from D* Retention. I'll be calling them ASAP to see what they are willing to give me. The HR10 from Newegg was $289 after the D* $200 rebate but I can return it to Newegg without any problem if D* Retention can give me a better deal. It's just that I don't want to wait or need or care for their "Professional" installation! :down:
 

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Even getting the 3 networks is better than no HD :) My true reason for the HDtivo was for more space and since i got it for around 50 bucks, it was the same/cheaper as another standard tivo. Getting OTA HD was just a plus for me.

I'm guessing they have to keep the national HD channels mpeg2 at least as long as they have a majority of the population without mpeg 4, which is today's situation.

You'll love the tivoing HD so just start enjoying and dont worry about what's down the road. I'm pretty sure our hdtivos have at least 2-3 years left in them, if not many more.
 

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Wirelezz said:
Whoops, thanks for the correction Finnstang (and your response), I just edited my post to reflect that.

Well, I probably will still go with the HR10 for now as I also just purchased a Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" Plasma and I really don't want to postpone HDTV any longer. Besides I have a wife who just can't wait to see "Lost" & "24" in widescreen HIDef! :D

I just read the "Freebies from D*" post and I'm realizing I probably could have done better (maybe) by acquiring a HR10 from D* retention. I'll be calling them ASAP to see what they are willing to give me. I can return the HR10 from Newegg without any problem...
If you call retention, you can probably get them to still give you customer credit and a rebate credit for the one you have already purchased from Newegg.

Edit: You are gonna really enjoy 24 in HD.
 

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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Finnstang said:
If you call retention, you can probably get them to still give you customer credit and a rebate credit for the one you have already purchased from Newegg.
That's really good news if it's true. As I mentioned above I really don't want to wait or need or care for their "Professional" installation! :down:

Finnstang said:
You are gonna really enjoy 24 in HD.
I'll be sure to have the wife read this thread... actually I can't wait to see it also! :rolleyes:
 

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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
newsposter said:
Even getting the 3 networks is better than no HD :) My true reason for the HDtivo was for more space and since i got it for around 50 bucks, it was the same/cheaper as another standard tivo.
Actually besides wanting HD, wanting more space was what motivated me to purchase the HR10. I was tired of being limited by the UltimateTV's small hard drive (40GB or 80GB I think) and REALLY tired of the "Runaway fast forward" problem that has always plagued the UltimateTV unit. I sure won't be missing that problem!
 

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Wirelezz said:
So it's my understanding that if I subscribe to the D* HD programming package ($10.99 / month, it's evidently a requirement to get the $200 rebate on the HR10-250 anyway) I can get the network stations (and HBO & more) in widescreen HiDef.
Subscribing to the HD programming package does not get you the HD networks. It only gets you channels 70-79, which includes HBO, SHO, ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery HD and a few older movie channels...(although now I can't remember if you need the HD package to get HBO and SHO, because these channels also chow up in the "movie channel section" (501+).

AFAIK, the only ways to get the HD locals is OTA, getting a separate waiver for the HD national feeds, or if you are in a top-20 market and can get them from the new satellites.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong...
 

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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rakim said:
AFAIK, the only ways to get the HD locals is OTA, getting a separate waiver for the HD national feeds, or if you are in a top-20 market and can get them from the new satellites.
OK, but I already have the waiver for the HD national feeds, and always have. I receive NBC, ABC, and FOX from the East & West coasts. Does this mean I would automatically receive these in HD with the HR10 without subscribing to the D* HD programming package? And if the D* HD programming comes from the 119 & 110 Sats will the channel numbers for the East & West feeds be different from what they are from the 101 Bird?
 

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Wirelezz said:
OK, but I already have the waiver for the HD national feeds, and always have. I receive NBC, ABC, and FOX from the East & West coasts. Does this mean I would automatically receive these in HD with the HR10 without subscribing to the D* HD programming package? And if the D* HD programming comes from the 119 & 110 Sats will the channel numbers for the East & West feeds be different from what they are from the 101 Bird?
This thread has some conflicting info in it, but have some posts of interest to you...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=278438&highlight=hd+national+feeds

I think if the waivers are noted on your account, then you should be able to get the channels without the HD package. I know that you don't need the HD package to get local HDs OTA, I assume it is the same for the national HD feeds...Anyone?
 

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Rakim said:
This thread has some conflicting info in it, but have some posts of interest to you...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=278438&highlight=hd+national+feeds

I think if the waivers are noted on your account, then you should be able to get the channels without the HD package. I know that you don't need the HD package to get local HDs OTA, I assume it is the same for the national HD feeds...Anyone?
I get the East coast feed of NBCHD whether or not I have the HD package on my account.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Finnstang said:
I get the East coast feed of NBCHD whether or not I have the HD package on my account.
Finnstang, do you receive your East coast network HD feeds on the same channel #'s as I do?

Here's my East - West network channel lineup:

NBCE 382
ABCE 386
FOXE 388

NBCW 383
ABCW 387
FOXW 389

In other words, are you receiving your HD network channels on 383,386, & 388 or are the HD channel #'s different because the HD programming does not come from the 101 bird?
 

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Wirelezz said:
That's really good news if it's true. As I mentioned above I really don't want to wait or need or care for their "Professional" installation! :down:

I'll be sure to have the wife read this thread... actually I can't wait to see it also! :rolleyes:
Is she an american idol fan? Soooo much better in HD that I actually watch the show instead of reading the newspaper during it :)

Wirelezz said:
REALLY tired of the "Runaway fast forward" problem that has always plagued the UltimateTV unit. I sure won't be missing that problem!
Well I dont know what that is but I do know I have a problem now with my hdtivo that sometimes I can't get it off FF. I see the light flashing on the unit but no matter what button I press, it wont stop. But it's not regular enough to bug me..yet

Wirelezz said:
OK, but I already have the waiver for the HD national feeds, and always have. I receive NBC, ABC, and FOX from the East & West coasts. Does this mean I would automatically receive these in HD with the HR10 without subscribing to the D* HD programming package? And if the D* HD programming comes from the 119 & 110 Sats will the channel numbers for the East & West feeds be different from what they are from the 101 Bird?
Yes dont spend money on HD package if you just want the national feeds of the 3 networks that you already have waivers for. You get that free. Of course I've heard when they locals go HD mpeg4 in your area, you will be forced to get them but I'm not an expert in that arena of information so not sure that's true.
 

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wire, you need sight to the 110 and 119 for the mpeg 2 network HD channels (78-82??? I think). The HD networks are there.

I dont get them but since i only get the 110, i can only 'see' 2 of them per the x721 message on my screen. The other 2 networks are on the 119 and i get 'searching for satellite' because i can't see the 119 from here.
 

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King of the North
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Wirelezz said:
Finnstang, do you receive your East coast network HD feeds on the same channel #'s as I do?

Here's my East - West network channel lineup:

NBCE 382
ABCE 386
FOXE 388

NBCW 383
ABCW 387
FOXW 389

In other words, are you receiving your HD network channels on 383,386, & 388 or are the HD channel #'s different because the HD programming does not come from the 101 bird?
No the HD netwrok feeds are:

CBSEHD 80
CBSWHD 81
NBCEHD 82
NBCWHD 83
ABCEHD 86
ABCWHD 87
FOXEHD 88
FOXWHD 89
 

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2B or not 2B?
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Rakim said:
This thread has some conflicting info in it, but have some posts of interest to you...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=278438&highlight=hd+national+feeds

I think if the waivers are noted on your account, then you should be able to get the channels without the HD package. I know that you don't need the HD package to get local HDs OTA, I assume it is the same for the national HD feeds...Anyone?
Well, I just read through that thread... Damn! Looks like I'm out of luck on the HD East-West networks. According to all the contributors to that thread the SD waiver and HD waiver are separate and completely different animals. I am Grandfathered in on the SD waiver but since I have access to my local channels I apparently won't qualify for the East-West coast HD feeds. :mad:

Looks like I have a fight on my hands with D*. What are they going to tell me when I tell them I dropped $3000 for a HDTV & HD DVR for nothing?!

It would appear my only leverage will be the fact that HD is not yet available in the Denver market. I wonder if that will fly...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK, I just got off the phone with a D* CSR with the HD-DNS eligibility division. He was very helpful and a great guy actually (Thanks Ben!). He put in my request for a HD East-West waiver with special attention directed to the fact that I have no OTA reception plus the local Denver stations not yet available in HD (through the satellite feeds).

Obviously he couldn't promise anything, so all I can do is hope for the best. He did tell me that HD in the Denver region (including Salt Lake City) will go online in May, and that D* will credit my HR10-250 towards the HR20 when it becomes available.

Can't ask for more than that I guess...
 

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Wirelezz said:
...D* will credit my HR10-250 towards the HR20 when it becomes available.
It will be interesting to see how this works out. With DTV going to Lease only come March 1, I wonder what that credit will do for people now (just offset some of the initial cost to get into the lease plan)? The assumption before this change was announced was the credit would be to allow you to replace (with a purchase) the new HR20. Seems doubtful that would be the case now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
MikeF said:
It will be interesting to see how this works out. With DTV going to Lease only come March 1, I wonder what that credit will do for people now (just offset some of the initial cost to get into the lease plan)? The assumption before this change was announced was the credit would be to allow you to replace (with a purchase) the new HR20. Seems doubtful that would be the case now.
I find this whole thing about the impending lease program very interesting. I mentioned this to the CSR with HD-DNS eligibility division and it was news to him... he hadn't heard anything about it. But then he's in tech support and probably would be the last to know anyway.

Since my last post I called the 800-824-9081 Retention # concerning the HR20 upgrade. The CSR I talked to had heard about the lease plan but told me that it would be an OPTION offered to subscribers but not a requirement. She was pretty sure that equipment could still be purchased.

BTW, I highly encourage a call to Retention... I came away from that phone call with HBO @ $2/month for 6 months, Showtime free for 6 months, Starz free for 3 months, a $5 credit for 6 months, and the HD progamming package free for three months. Yes! :up:

Things are looking up!

P.S. UPS just delivered my HR10-250... time to go play with my new toy! ;)
 
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