[ybachar]

Hi,

I'm using the HR10-250 and having a hard time to get the local channels off the Air specifically the NBC channel (I live in Sunnyvale, CA).

Is there any other way to get those channels, like from channel 82 ?

Thanks,

Yuval.

 

[davidjplatt]

Only if they consider you to be in an area that can't get a digital signal with a roof antenna properly setup or if you are in an O&O area.

If your local NBC station is owned by NBC and operated by NBC, they will let you get the LA station if they own that one too (which I'm pretty sure they do).

 

[ybachar]

Hi,

So how do I request to get the channel via the dish and not through the off the air antenna ?

Should I contact them ?

Yuval.

 

[litzdog911]

If you live in Sunnyvale you will not be able to justify waivers to receive the LA or NY network stations. If you cannot mount an adequate off-air antenna, then your best bet is to replace your HR10-250 and an HR20 HD DVR and upgrade to a 5-LNB dish so you can receive the Bay Area local HDTV channels from DirecTV's new Ka-band satellites.

 

[Redux]

your best bet is to replace your HR10-250 [with a non-Tivo] HR20 HD DVR and upgrade [sic] to a 5-LNB dish so you can receive the Bay Area local HDTV channels from DirecTV's new Ka-band satellites.

... at substantially lower quality.

Before abandoning Tivo, I would put some effort into OTA via antenna. Getting a waiver would be the next best bet, if you want to stay with Tivo, though you're still going to lose quality relative to OTA.

 

[bidger]

... at substantially lower quality.

People in MPEG 4 HD delivered locals through DIRECTV and also have access to those same locals OTA are hard pressed to tell the difference.

 

[bonscott87]

... at substantially lower quality.

Before abandoning Tivo, I would put some effort into OTA via antenna. Getting a waiver would be the next best bet, if you want to stay with Tivo, though you're still going to lose quality relative to OTA.

True that the MPEG4 HD locals are nearly identical to their OTA counterparts.

And to be honest, in his situation, even if it were lower quality then OTA, he can't get the OTA signal, thus "lower quality" is better then nothing.

But as stated, MPEG4 HD locals are just as good as OTA in most markets. Don't spread FUD.

Plus he doesn't need to "abandon" his Tivo at all. He can get an H20 or HR20 to get the channels he can't get on the HR10 and use the HR10 to get the rest. Doesn't have a choice anyway eventually, all HD will be in MPEG4.

 

[nrc]

True that the MPEG4 HD locals are nearly identical to their OTA counterparts.

But as stated, MPEG4 HD locals are just as good as OTA in most markets. Don't spread FUD.

How does "nearly identical" become "just as good" just two sentences later?

Of course the problem is that DirecTV has a history of declining picture quality - denying it all the while. Only time will tell whether the MPEG4 content follows that same path. The good news is that your two year comittment may be up by the time the picture melts back into the muddy mess we see on MPEG2 channels.

 

[AstroDad]

How does "nearly identical" become "just as good" just two sentences later?

Of course the problem is that DirecTV has a history of declining picture quality - denying it all the while. Only time will tell whether the MPEG4 content follows that same path. The good news is that your two year comittment may be up by the time the picture melts back into the muddy mess we see on MPEG2 channels.

You read "just as good" to be less than "nearly identical"? To me, "just as good" means "the same as" or "equal to"

 

[nrc]

You read "just as good" to be less than "nearly identical"? To me, "just as good" means "the same as" or "equal to"

I'm pointing out that "nearly identical" is not "just as good." That would be "disinformation".

 

[bidger]

Of course the problem is that DirecTV has a history of declining picture quality - denying it all the while. Only time will tell whether the MPEG4 content follows that same path. The good news is that your two year comittment may be up by the time the picture melts back into the muddy mess we see on MPEG2 channels.

There's no denying past history has to be taken into account, but since MPEG 4 uses half the capacity of MPEG 2, once that MPEG 2 HD stream is shut down, it should translate into improved PQ for both HD and SD. There has to be an increase in both quantity and quality if DIRECTV wants to truly be the HD leader.

 

[ebonovic]

I'm pointing out that "nearly identical" is not "just as good." That would be "disinformation".

Now you are just splitting hairs;

Explain to me definitively how saying something is "nearly identicaly" and "just as good".... are different statements...

Seriously.

But one is based of the other, and if the other is doing it's job... it should be "nearly identical"....

And if it "looks the same", "sounds the same", and "overal performs the same", then you can say... it is "just as good".

Saying it was an IDENTICAL picture, would be "disinformation"...

 

[nrc]

Now you are just splitting hairs;

Explain to me definitively how saying something is "nearly identicaly" and "just as good".... are different statements...

They are quite simply not the same thing. "nearly identical" is not "identical" and therefore objectively not "just as good". If something is identical then it is just as good because it is exactly the same. If it's not identical then whether it's "just as good" is a subjective opinion. Unfortunately it was not stated as an opinion, it was stated as a fact.

Quite shocking behavior from one here to fight FUD and disinformation.

 

[ebonovic]

Then we have different definitions of "just as good"

A Canon Copier, can make a copy of an original "just as good" as a Xerox Copier.
They are not-identical, they are not the same, as they make the copy in different ways

If someone tells me one brand of memory is "just as good" as another brand of memory... that doesn't mean they are identical...

If someone tells me that one type of OIL for my car is "just as good" as another type... that doesn't mean they are identical...

Since there is no official Websters dictionary for the phrase "just as good", in obviously is subject to the interpretation of the reader.

So again... I wil restate:
You are splitting hairs.

 

[Redux]

A Canon Copier, can make a copy of an original "just as good" as a Xerox Copier.

But neither is as good as the original.

DirecTV's HiDef locals are not as good as the OTA digital signal they have compressed. In some cases I have seen they are quite good, in others really bad, and who knows exactly what the future holds for DirecTV. With new ownership soon, maybe the trend will reverse itself.

But those who are able to watch OTA are getting the best HiDef. Being ... whatever your relationship to DirecTV should be called ... and trying to obfuscate about it is a daunting task and I hope your handlers appreciate your efforts. You are _very_ good at this.

 

[ebonovic]

But neither is as good as the original.

DirecTV's HiDef locals are not as good as the OTA digital signal they have compressed. In some cases I have seen they are quite good, in others really bad, and who knows exactly what the future holds for DirecTV. With new ownership soon, maybe the trend will reverse itself.

But those who are able to watch OTA are getting the best HiDef. Being ... whatever your relationship to DirecTV should be called ... and trying to obfuscate about it is a daunting task and I hope your handlers appreciate your efforts. You are _very_ good at this.

But that isn't the basis of this "particular" argument. (the quote you took is with my discssuion on the definition of "just as good" is the same as "identical).

Hence why BonScott (and I) have stated "nearly identical" and "just as good as"

As for OTA being the "best HD".... Sure it is probably the best "availabe" for that market, but it is not the best HD... as a lot of markets BITSTARVE their OTA transmissions (Which have a chain reaction to every carrier).

This is nothing about obfuscating anything...

Come down to Chicago... view the Chicago MPEG-4 Locals vs the OTA locals.
I would bet you that with 100 "which is it, mpeg-4 vs OTA)... there would be no discernable difference in the outcome of that poll...

There is no argument that OTA Locals are "better" then MPEG-4 Locals.... as by definition... MPEG-4 can be no better then the source... So at best they can be equal. But we don't see 0's and 1's on our TV's... we see their color representation of the results of a mathematical forumal. So even if they are not mathematically equal, the impending results on our TV's and our reception of that when we view and hear it..... They will (and I will argue that they have in cases), be indisguishable from one another....

Edit: Note: That above statement is only true, while MPEG-4 Locals are based on the reception of the OTA transmissions from the affiliates... If the infrustucture changes, that the MPEG-4 versions can be generated on the original source, before the OTA MPEG-2 Compression takes place
End Edit

And again... if you think I am being handled by someone... that someone is me... I handle myself, always have... just because I have contacts and can get the answers, and have conversations with people... don't for a second think I am being handled...

 

[nellee]

Just to get back on topic for the OP, if you live in Sunnyvale and are able to get the other San Francisco channels OTA (CBS, ABC, PBS), you should be able to get the NBC channel 11 OTA since that tower is now in San Bruno, just south of San Francisco's other towers for CBS, ABC, PBS which is at Twin Peaks in San Francisco.

Try a little aiming of the antenna or maybe an amp on the antenna?

 

[Redux]

we don't see 0's and 1's on our TV's... we see their color representation of the results of a mathematical forumal. So even if they are not mathematically equal, the impending results on our TV's and our reception of that when we view and hear it..... They will (and I will argue that they have in cases), be indisguishable from one another....

Excellent! This is among your best ever.

Also, your argument that even OTA HiDef may not be as good as, well I guess seeing the actors on the movie set or whatever, as if that's somehow relevant the discussion of HR10-250 OTA vs. the competition's product you are promoting. Very, very good.

My advice to anyone with an HR10-250 and the problem of the OP is the heirarchy I have previously suggested:

1. Work on OTA reception for the single HiDef channel you're not getting now; that's going to get you the best possible result.
2. Pursue the waiver.
3. Only if neither of those work would I consider changing from the HR10-250 to a non-Tivo product.

 

[ebonovic]

Excellent! This is among your best ever.

Also, your argument that even OTA HiDef may not be as good as, well I guess seeing the actors on the movie set or whatever, as if that's somehow relevant the discussion of HR10-250 OTA vs. the competition's product you are promoting. Very, very good.

Oh for the love of god....

I again... you still don't answer the original point.... (in my statement)
Is what I see on my TV... Discernable better in OTA vs SAT-MPEG-4

That is what matters? Isn't it?

You are the one that claimed OTA is the BEST HD available... not me.. you stated it.
You introduced this into the discussion... not me...
I was just addressing nrc's claims that "nearly identical" and "just as good" where contraticory statements...

 

[JimSpence]

What's better is in the eye of the beholder!
Not to mention the quality of the display.

Now let's try to help the OP get his locals.