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lajohn27 said:
I think Letterman was on point with his Christmas arguments. This are really isolated incidents.
Oh, I wished it were!! Here in Sacramento, CA during the Christmas shopping season in 2005 I've never seen such a dearth of Christmas decorations ever. I remember as a small child back in the 1960's and 1970's when an entire shopping center was completely decked out in Christmas decorations.
 

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RayChuang88 said:
Oh, I wished it were!! Here in Sacramento, CA during the Christmas shopping season in 2005 I've never seen such a dearth of Christmas decorations ever. I remember as a small child back in the 1960's and 1970's when an entire shopping center was completely decked out in Christmas decorations.
Indeed.

Around here the generic-ation of "holiday" decorations is obvious.

Also, almost universally cashers and customer service people are told to not wish any customer "Merry Christmas" under any circumstances. Many are even instructed not to wish any customer "Happy Holidays" since a few people might even be offended by that! It's strictly "Thank you for shopping at <name of retail business>" just like the rest of the year.
 

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Fish Man said:
Indeed.

Around here the generic-ation of "holiday" decorations is obvious.

Also, almost universally cashers and customer service people are told to not wish any customer "Merry Christmas" under any circumstances. Many are even instructed not to wish any customer "Happy Holidays" since a few people might even be offended by that! It's strictly "Thank you for shopping at <name of retail business>" just like the rest of the year.
does this happen... yes. Does this usually happen? No.

In fact, I would submit that this is not the case 75% of the time.

Is there a law against saying Merry Christmas? NO
Are employees of these businesses punished for saying Merry Christmas? NO
Are they forced to work on Christmas? NO

The over sensitivity to Merry Christmas... is just like any other silly corporate / bureaucratic nonsense. Policies are designed to insulate the entity from lawsuits.

I have a hard time taking seriously the assertion that there is 'War on Christmas'
or the notion that Christians are oppressed in the United States.
 

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daperlman said:
Are employees of these businesses punished for saying Merry Christmas? NO
At Kmart, Sears, Sav-a-Center (grocery chain), several regional retail chains around here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) YES. Saying "Merry Christmas" is punishable by official reprimands and other job actions. Multiple slips will result in termination.

daperlman said:
Are they forced to work on Christmas? NO
At many national and regional retail chains (particularly drug stores and convenance stores, CVS and Wallgreens, for example), YES! Employees get scheduled to work on Christmas and have little say about it. They get double-time pay though. Of course working on Christmas has noting to do with the PC debate. These stores have had a tradition of being open on Christmas day for many years.
 

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Fish Man said:
RayChuang88 said:
Oh, I wished it were!! Here in Sacramento, CA during the Christmas shopping season in 2005 I've never seen such a dearth of Christmas decorations ever. I remember as a small child back in the 1960's and 1970's when an entire shopping center was completely decked out in Christmas decorations.
Indeed.

Around here the generic-ation of "holiday" decorations is obvious.

Also, almost universally cashers and customer service people are told to not wish any customer "Merry Christmas" under any circumstances. Many are even instructed not to wish any customer "Happy Holidays" since a few people might even be offended by that! It's strictly "Thank you for shopping at <name of retail business>" just like the rest of the year.
And how is this a BAD thing... ?!?! :confused: :confused: :confused: What does any of that have to do with God or faith?

Christmas is an over-hyped market-driven orgy of capitalism. It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion anymore; it's a crass, cynical ploy by corporate America (etc.) to separate your money from your pocket, and nothing else. :down:

I'm quite sure that Jesus would absolutely fricking overjoyed to see the celebration of his birth and life and teachings being divorced from all this commercialism and I can't understand why the faithful aren't cheering that effort on even faster! Keep Christmas as a religious holiday. Celebrate it in your church and your home and your heart. Leave the store decorations, customer service greetings, cheesy town hall displays, etc. to "winter holidays" paganism (NTTAWWT!)
 

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Fish Man said:
At Kmart, Sears, Sav-a-Center (grocery chain), several regional retail chains around here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) YES. Saying "Merry Christmas" is punishable by official reprimands and other job actions. Multiple slips will result in termination.

At many national and regional retail chains (particularly drug stores and convenance stores, CVS and Wallgreens, for example), YES! Employees get scheduled to work on Christmas and have little say about it. They get double-time pay though. Of course working on Christmas has noting to do with the PC debate. These stores have had a tradition of being open on Christmas day for many years.
There will be 0 persons terminated as a result of saying merry christmas this year. Christmas is a federal holiday, and while there are a few 24 hour type places that remain opened during most or all holiday, but in almost every case places are closed during Christmas.

BTW... IMHO... and I am confident those of our forefathers, an owner of a business a person should be able to fire someone for any and all reasons, and make whatever rule he/she pleases.

Nevertheless, while there are instances of oversensitive managers and officials here and there, I am just not buying this widespread oppression of Christian individuals in this Country.

IMHO, It is like hearing a white person complain of injustice because there is a black entertainment channel and not a 'white' entertainment network.
 

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madscientist said:
And how is this a BAD thing... ?!?! :confused: :confused: :confused: What does any of that have to do with God or faith?
It doesn't, at all.

To try to force the issue to have anything to do with religion misses the point completely.

I think I've come up with a great definition of "Political Correctness".

Political Correctness is: "Hyper-sensitivity to another persons potential hyper-sensitivity."

Is one example of employees of a store being forbidden to say "Merry Christmas" in and of itself a particularly big deal?

No, not really.

But the whole "politically correct" trend is an Orwellian 1984 "Good-speak bad-speak, thought police" sort of thing.

It is a form of censorship of our freedom of expression. It has absolutely nothing to do with God or religion. It is censorship of free speech, and that is why it's a bad thing.

This country was founded on the principal that all of us should be free to express ourselves. We should be free to express our views on government, politics, asthetics, philosophy, life, beauty, art, ethics, religion, God, etc. etc. etc.

In turn, all of us would be TOLERANT of other people freely expressing themselves.

When a person gets all bent out of shape because somewhere out there in the world is another person who has a view (religious, political, artistic, whatever) that doesn't 100% agree with theirs, that is just silly.

Political correctness is an attempt to force everyone to never ever say anything whatsoever that any other human being on the planet might possibly disagree or take issue with. It is a HUGE form of censorship.

This movement was almost 100% perfectly predicted in the novel 1984 by George Orwell. He called it "new-speak". In our present-day reality, we call it "politically correct".

I'll give you a forinstance:

My last name is "Sutton."

The origin of that name is English/Welsh. Most people named "Sutton" are probably from a Christian background.

However, there is a large extended family of "Suttons" in New Orleans who are Jewish by faith. Hard-core multi-generation native New Orleanians consider "Sutton" to be a "Jewish" name.

I am not originally from New Orleans and am not Jewish.

However, I have many times been wished "Happy Chanukah" by people in New Orleans who assume that I am Jewish because of my name!

How asinine would it be for me to be offended by such a trivial and innocent mistake?!! :eek:

When this happens, I usually say, "Thanks, same to you." :D

We don't need political correctness, we need people to not be so easily offended by such utterly trivial things!
 

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Like everything else that's wrong in this country, it's the lawyers at the root of it. If businesses weren't scared of being sued for being non-inclusive they'd be less silly.

-MM
(No emoticons, you figure out if I'm serious)
 

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barrettd said:
I didn't think Letterman had a good grasp on anything, including his own anger. He basically dismissed O'Reilly and then admitted he had no idea what he was talking about because he's never seen his show. I like Letterman and all, but he really let his emotions get the best of him.
I think that was deliberate. He was giving O'Reilly a taste of his own medicine.
 

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daperlman said:
BTW... IMHO... and I am confident those of our forefathers, an owner of a business a person should be able to fire someone for any and all reasons, and make whatever rule he/she pleases.
This street goes both ways. IMO...and those of our forefathers...I am free to organize a write-in campaign or a boycott to let business owners know that I see and do not appreciate the hypocrisy in their actions. They expect me to come in and spend tons of money on Christmas presents to make sure they finish the year in the black, but they are unwilling to use the word Christmas in their advertisements. I personally won't organize the campaign to throw the shipment of "Holiday Trees" into Boston Harbor, but I think our forefathers might agree with that as a tactic too.
 

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To be clear, I agree with you that PC has become ridiculous and obviously no one should be fired for saying "Merry Christmas". I hope that goes without saying. My point is that less Christmas would be a welcome relief, and that the things people argue about have virtually nothing to do with Christmas anyway... it's all about power and hidden agendas, and that's on both sides of the argument.

I can see being upset by people being fired for saying "Merry Christmas" (I've never heard of anything like that but I'm certainly willing to believe you that it happens). I can't see being upset by the removal of Christmas decorations, creches, etc. ad nauseum. Even if they're just turned into generic winter holiday decorations, snowman scenes, etc. to me that's a straightforward capitalist exercise, much preferable to this horrible Frankenstein's monster combination of religion and commercialism.
 

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RayChuang88 said:
I think Letterman was on point with his Christmas arguments. This are really isolated incidents..
At my daughters middle school they had a Christmas concert where they performed "We Wish You A Merry Christmas" changing the words to;

We Wish You A Happy Holiday and a Happy New Year!

It does happen...
 

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crazywater said:
At my daughters middle school they had a Christmas concert where they performed "We Wish You A Merry Christmas" changing the words to;

We Wish You A Happy Holiday and a Happy New Year!

It does happen...
That's pretty stupid.

Getting upset about it is even more stupid.

Claiming that it's an element of the vast left-wing conspiracy's War on Christmas is sheer lunacy with a dash of psychosis and a hint of persecution complex thrown in for taste.
 

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sketcher said:
This street goes both ways. IMO...and those of our forefathers...I am free to organize a write-in campaign or a boycott to let business owners know that I see and do not appreciate the hypocrisy in their actions. They expect me to come in and spend tons of money on Christmas presents to make sure they finish the year in the black, but they are unwilling to use the word Christmas in their advertisements. I personally won't organize the campaign to throw the shipment of "Holiday Trees" into Boston Harbor, but I think our forefathers might agree with that as a tactic too.
Fair enough. Companies don't care about you enough to offend you, they are there to make money. They DO expect you and everyone else to spend money there. I suppose if enough people are offended by their actions you can drive them out of business.

But I hope you are not drawing a parallel b/t the perceived war on Christmas and taxation without representation.

I am seriously confused about how Wal-Mart's commercails seem to have a negative impact on an individual's personal relationship with God. IOW, what if Wal-Mart DID awknowledge Christmas in a public and visable manner... spreading Christmas cheer? Would that make our lives better? How?
 

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busyba said:
That's pretty stupid.

Getting upset about it is even more stupid.

Claiming that it's an element of the vast left-wing conspiracy's War on Christmas is sheer lunacy with a dash of psychosis and a hint of persecution complex thrown in for taste.
Thank you Doctor :confused:
 
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