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No offense, but I think you're just one of those people who doesn't grasp time travel as a concept.
There is some need to expand your reality, but slightly older Lily, they have been down there less than a week. The issue is there is no way for Lily to come up in 1988 and exist as Ella in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up and sends Lily down. There is no other method to move through time and she does not fall though any other sinkhole that has been established. As I said Dr. Aldridge will shed some light on the subject.
 

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I can comprehend that 2 Lilly/Emma can exist in the same year, the issue with this storyline is that the portal for young Lily does not open up until 2021. This is the only access point we know of so far where she falls in. If she cannot have fallen in until 2021 then there is no way for that Lily can go up to 1988 and become Ella.
I think you might be punking us? Both getbak and Anubys have explained it clearly.

The access point that opened in 2021 has nothing at all to do with Lily traveling to 1988. There's a portal "A" that opened in 2021 that lets people from 2021 travel to 10,000 BC. There's a different portal "B" that opened in 10,000 BC that lets people from 10,000 BC travel to 1988.

Lily went through both of them, in turn: she was born in 2011. Lily traveled through portal A from 2021 to 10,000 BC. She lived in 10,000 BC for a week or whatever. Then she traveled through portal B from 10,000 BC to 1988. Then she lived, starting in 1988, as Ella.
 

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I think you might be punking us? Both getbak and Anubys have explained it clearly.

The access point that opened in 2021 has nothing at all to do with Lily traveling to 1988. There's a portal "A" that opened in 2021 that lets people from 2021 travel to 10,000 BC. There's a different portal "B" that opened in 10,000 BC that lets people from 10,000 BC travel to 1988.

Lily went through both of them, in turn: she was born in 2011. Lily traveled through portal A from 2021 to 10,000 BC. She lived in 10,000 BC for a week or whatever. Then she traveled through portal B from 10,000 BC to 1988. Then she lived, starting in 1988, as Ella.
Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.
 

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Oh, you're worried about the old "how did the very first instance of the cycle happen" question? That's a common problem in some types of time travel plots. One type of time travel story where it isn't an issue is when the person traveling in time has no effect at all on the timeline, at least as perceived by the people in that timeline. Then you can assume that the "first time" there was no future person there to do anything.

This is clearly not that kind of time travel story.

There are two possibilities here: if Ella never interacts with Lily then we can just assume that the first time through the cycle Ella didn't exist, and when Lily goes back then forward through time "the first time" she changes history and Ella now exists. Since the cycle doesn't create a closed loop there's no inconsistency (other than changing history of course).

If Ella and Lily do interact in some way, creating a closed loop, then I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an answer to this. In stories where there is a loop like this there's never any explanation as to how the first iteration of the loop occurred. It's assumed that the loop always existed, and will always exist.
 

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All About Footwork
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Keep in mind that this show has already played the "the present can change the past" card - remember the plane wreck from 10,000 BC that vanished when they got the iPad message and ended up not trying to fly the plane? If Lily doesn't return to 1988, then chances are Ella vanishes, or gets the mysterious "you never existed" sickness.

Please, please, please, pleasepleaseplease, PLEASE, did I mention "please," please have 6 be something other than:
6. In 2011, effectively-33-year-old Ella gives birth to Lily. (Besides, Futurama already kinda sorta did it with Fry being his own grandfather.)

I also wonder what the importance of Seattle will be, since the sinkholes don't move geographically between the present and the past.
Is that directed at me? cause I made it clear Lilly was born to some unknown parents; not Ella...if it's a comment about how you don't want to show to go, um...ok!
 

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Oh, you're worried about the old "how did the very first instance of the cycle happen" question? That's a common problem in some types of time travel plots. One type of time travel story where it isn't an issue is when the person traveling in time has no effect at all on the timeline, at least as perceived by the people in that timeline. Then you can assume that the "first time" there was no future person there to do anything.

This is clearly not that kind of time travel story.

There are two possibilities here: if Ella never interacts with Lily then we can just assume that the first time through the cycle Ella didn't exist, and when Lily goes back then forward through time "the first time" she changes history and Ella now exists. Since the cycle doesn't create a closed loop there's no inconsistency (other than changing history of course).

If Ella and Lily do interact in some way, creating a closed loop, then I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an answer to this. In stories where there is a loop like this there's never any explanation as to how the first iteration of the loop occurred. It's assumed that the loop always existed, and will always exist.
Yah, I spent a whole bunch of mental power trying to figure out if what we know so far is technically a Bootstrap paradox, or not. At the moment, I'm going to say it's not, and stop thinking about it. Sure, there are 'out of order' events, and events that can not occur unless events events following them (in linear time) occur. And sure, that dependency is a little stronger here than you'd find in an average time travel story, but so far it doesn't come close to a paradox, and at this point might not even be a markovian self consistency loop.
 

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Please, please, please, pleasepleaseplease, PLEASE, did I mention "please," please have 6 be something other than:
6. In 2011, effectively-33-year-old Ella gives birth to Lily. (Besides, Futurama already kinda sorta did it with Fry being his own grandfather.)
I think Heinline has this one covered in story "All you Zombies", recently made into the movie Predestination.
 

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Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.
Don't try watching Dark if this is confusing.
 

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Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.
I think I understand what you're saying - "Lily hasn't gone through the wormhole yet, and what happens in 10,000 BC affects the present, so Ella can't exist yet." That's not entirely true; remember, the wrecked plane existed before it ever took off - it was only after the past changed so that it never took off did the wreckage disappear. In this version of time travel, Ella exists until/unless Lily doesn't go through the wormhole from 10,000 BC to 1988.
 

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Speaking of incredibly stupid things that I just can't not watch, there's a new Netflix movie called Red Notice that makes La Brea look like it should win the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yet somehow it's perfectly watchable (well, three somehows: Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot).

But MAN is it stupid! :D
Totally agree, but the interaction between DJ and RR was really good, even if the story was incredibly stupid.
 

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Sometimes I'm just in the mood for something like that. Mindless fun. I wouldn't watch it again, but I enjoyed it.
Yeah, most of the time that level of stupid feels like getting punched in the face. But somehow, these people make it work. Both on this show, and especially on Red Notice.

I'm actually gonna kind of miss the show after the season finalé tonight!
 
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