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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an Hr-10, but have not had HD. I want to go ahead and order it, but I am unsure what I will get. A trip to the Direct TV website zip code thingie says that local channels are available in my area (I have them) but HD is not. Does this make me elegible for the national network HD channels? I am confused about what I can get and what I can't and I am certain that some of the big brains here can help me out.

Thanks
 

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HD Access fee of $9.99 a month gives you access to all HD channels available in your package. Thus if you have Choice you'd get HD locals, channels like HDNet and Universal HD as well as ESPN and such. If you sub to HBO you'll get HBO HD and so forth.

Local HD channels are in MPEG4 so you'd need an HR20 or H20 to receive and all the new HD will also be in MPEG4.
Exception is if you are in LA or NY as the "big 4" are still on MPEG2 HD, for now. Eventually they will be shut down, timeframe unknown.

More details found at http://www.dbstalk.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the help,

I guess my question is specific to locals. I knew about the other channels, but wondered what the situation when HD locals are not available to me and when OTA won't work (at least not without a crazy high antenna on the roof)
 

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Pretty much all boundaries are based primarily on Grade B reception, including the red/white zip codes for DNS eligibility. If there even IS a grade A reception area, that is something that even broadcasters themselves typically ignore. They're worried about the boundary between reception and no reception, which is what Grade B is all about.

There is a tool on DTV's website that can give you a thumbs up/down based on your zip. Of course if you "move" to a "white" zip from a "red" zip, you become instantly eligible. But the first thing is to see if you can get the locals in HD OTA, which makes the rest of this discussion moot. It also means you can get them on the HR10 and don't need the HR20.

Not having to have a HR20 in place of your HR10 trumps no "crazy" antenna system every time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ty, I was hoping you would check in, as you seem to have all the answers for this kind of thing. I believe that the local network channels would consider me grade B. I was able to get one channel OTA when I used rabbit ears, but I couldn't hold the signal. I have gone to antennaweb, but I don't understand the results (I reall am not all that bright about this stuff). I had a guy that does installs tell me that to get reliable OTA signals in my area would require a 25 foot mast for the antenna on the roof. That dog will not hunt with my funny little honey, but seems to be acceptable for the local station engineers, none of whom would entertain my request for a waiver.

So I guess my question is: Am I just screwed, unless I go to cable?

Thanks again to everyone for the help. I really like my TiVo. I understand about Mpeg 4 and all that and know that if I stay with Direct TV I will eventually need the Hr20 but would like to delay that as long as I can.
 

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I've read that one of the provisions made to the FCC to approve the News Corps-Liberty Media transfer was 100% local coverage in the US by the end of 2008. The next satellite launch will be in March 2008 and, yes, that does mean MPEG-4 capable equipment to pick up those feeds. If you can't wait until then, you don't have much choice other than the outdoor antenna because outside of metro areas those rabbit ears ain't for sh*t, or a lifeline cable subscription for networks. Or "moving" as TS suggested.
 

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Dirk,

What about ordering an HR-20 and keeping your HR-10 running as well just as a backup. I know people here love the TIVO, but speaking as someone who had 2 HR-10s and really enjoyed them, I can honestly say that the transition over to the HR-20 was pretty painless.

Also, considering that you already have an HR-10 active, you should have no problem getting set up with an HR-20 and 5 LNB dish for just the cost of S&H ($19.99). All you have to do is talk to someone in Customer Retention and they'll probably give it to you.
 

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Dirk Legume said:
...I had a guy that does installs tell me that to get reliable OTA signals in my area would require a 25 foot mast for the antenna on the roof. That dog will not hunt with my funny little honey, but seems to be acceptable for the local station engineers, none of whom would entertain my request for a waiver.

So I guess my question is: Am I just screwed, unless I go to cable?...
Waivers rarely happen. There is no motivation for local stations to let you out of being restricted to watching their network without watching them to see it.

As far as antennae go, guys that put them in typically want to high-ball you, so that you understand you're faced with an investment. Then you either bite or you don't. But it makes sense to figure out what your particular situation really is. More sense, usually, than it does to listen to the guy trying to lift your wallet.

Tell us how far you are from the towers, what the terrain in between you is like, if there are any obstacles, and we can narrow your options. Also, talk to your neighbors and get their POV. They may have already reinvented this wheel for you. Lastly, get out the binoculars and see if you can see the tower lights at night. If you can, you've got a pretty good shot.

HD can be received reliably from over 90 miles away, and from 20 miles away it can be reliably received from a piece of twinlead taped to a window. Get close enough and you can pick it up on a paperclip. Of course each situation is different. If there are contributors of multipath distortion you may still need a directional antenna, even from 5 miles away. And you may just be SOL. You won't know until you investigate. If you're not at least that motivated to find out, then yes, you have two choices, be screwed or go to cable. Good luck. Post back, and we'll help you along.
 

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Oroville looks like it's kinda in the sticks. antennaweb.org says he's ~85 miles from the Sacramento stations. It should be possible w/ a decent sized antenna. A Winegard will go for about $120. I'd be surprised if you'll need a 25ft mast as I would guess Oroville is in the valley that goes all the way to Sacramento.
 

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bonscott87 said:
you'd need an HR20 or H20 to receive and all the new HD will also be in MPEG4.
Exception is if you are in LA or NY as the "big 4" are still on MPEG2 HD, for now. Eventually they will be shut down, timeframe unknown.

More details found at http://www.dbstalk.com
The following is long-standing Tivo Community Forum policy:

"Discussion of new Directv DVR models to be done off site.
It’s been decided that since this is a TiVo forum, discussion of DVR’s will be limited to models running TiVo software. Discussion of the new Directv DVR should be done on boards such as avsforum and dbstalk. Current threads on these models will soon be closed and referred to those sites."

Would you people mind complying? As a TCF member, I can only appeal to any sense you might have of courtesy. Thanks
 

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Redux said:
The following is long-standing Tivo Community Forum policy:

"Discussion of new Directv DVR models to be done off site.
It’s been decided that since this is a TiVo forum, discussion of DVR’s will be limited to models running TiVo software. Discussion of the new Directv DVR should be done on boards such as avsforum and dbstalk. Current threads on these models will soon be closed and referred to those sites."

Would you people mind complying? As a TCF member, I can only appeal to any sense you might have of courtesy. Thanks
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5311493&&#post5311493

And more specifically.... with the snippet you quoted from Bonscotts post...

That is the 100% example on WHY that rule, needs to be revisted.
As it is the correct addition to the reply, per the OP's question.
And based on the current "state" of DirecTV progression to MPEG-4.

NOT posting it, and telling the OP... go ahead... spend the money on the HR10-250... even though in 2 months, you are going to need to get something else if you want to access any national HD channels..

Was NOT the intent of the rule.
 

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Redux said:
The following is long-standing Tivo Community Forum policy:

"Discussion of new Directv DVR models to be done off site.
It’s been decided that since this is a TiVo forum, discussion of DVR’s will be limited to models running TiVo software. Discussion of the new Directv DVR should be done on boards such as avsforum and dbstalk. Current threads on these models will soon be closed and referred to those sites."

Would you people mind complying? As a TCF member, I can only appeal to any sense you might have of courtesy. Thanks
Ummm, isn't that what I did there professor? ;) I directed the user to another site. Man, you can't read just like RS4, can you?
 

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ebonovic said:
...NOT posting it, and telling the OP... go ahead... spend the money on the HR10-250... even though in 2 months, you are going to need to get something else if you want to access any national HD channels..

Was NOT the intent of the rule.
What in the world are you guys smoking? It seems as if you are posting in a completely different thread than the rest of us. Did anyone really say anything even close to that? And what if they did? (although it is grossly misleading)

The guy already HAS a HR10, as is demonstrated by the first 4 words of his post. Most of us are just trying to help him with his options (even though that particular POV above is hardly of much help), a suite of options which also includes the most obvious one of trying to get his HR10 to work for him and explain the fine points of why or why not that might be a good idea, which obviously includes the shelf-life issue, which makes the HR20 the white elephant in the room if you can't mention it without breaking some "rule".

And in case you hadn't noticed, in 2007 most folk's options are influenced by the fact that there are two very different platforms available from DTV as well as others from cable. If we want to keep the stick that far up where the sun doesn't shine and be so militant that we can't make distinctions between the available options which is counter to answering the big picture questions regarding this very common situation the OP finds himself in, well then yes, maybe that rule should indeed be revisited. And then thrown out uncerimoniously.

So what WAS the intent of the rule? Don't hesitate to correct me, but it seems as if the intent of the rule was to not confuse HR10 posts with HR20 posts, since one is a Tivo and the other most certainly is not a Tivo (more a pretender to the throne). If you just can't think things through, that at first glance seems like the thing to do, since this is a TC forum about Tivo, and not about bastardized wannabes. That's all well and good, but those platforms will forever be intertwined with the questions folks are asking, and so many of the questions people bring here have to do with making a choice between various platforms, whether TC likes it or not. If we can't dare to mention the HR20 in a Tivo thread, just because it's technically a TC forum, well that's just shortsightedly re-god-damn-diculous.

Why not give the people what they want, and at the same time give them what helps them? Widen the scope, and by doing so, make this wonderful tool that much better. Since the HR10 brings with it a reception component, TC would be well served by creating both an area where reception issues involving Tivo could be discussed, as well as an area where competing products could be discussed in comparison to and alongside Tivo products. Since TC hasn't had the foresight to do that, this particular forum has become the de facto forum to do that in, which IMHO has actually made it relevant to the questions folks are really asking. It seems pretty obvious that this would happen one way or another, as nature abhors a vacuum, and the need exists and this seems like the logical place to let nature thrive in that regard.

Let's all just stop trippin' and wake up and smell the propane. It's a bonehead rule. And it's too weak to use as a cudgel against the DVR wars, so let's stop trying. And if you're irked that somebody slides OT a bit, ferchrissake just suck it up, move on, and don't support the post by keeping it alive while you tell us how irked you are. Maybe then I'll start to do the same.
 

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bonscott87 said:
Ummm, isn't that what I did there professor? I directed the user to another site. Man, you can't read just like RS4, can you?
Yes you did, Scott.

All you did was make a few observations and redirect to the appropriate forum.

There is a big difference between discussing non-TiVo DVRs and making an observation. :)
 

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TyroneShoes said:
So what WAS the intent of the rule?
At the time of the introduction of the rule, was a week or so after I posted the R15 review here in the forum.

The fact that it was 100% not a TiVo system, and the discussion started to carry out to the support of the product... it didn't fit into the goals of this particular forum.

Hence the rule, and the redirection of the discussions...

It wasn't intended to block comparisons between the three different series (and actually more then that, if you want to include all other DVRs from other services)...

And now with the MPEG-4 HD disucssions, it wasn't intended to hide or obscure the correct information for the users and guests of TCF
 

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Well said Tyrone. To discuss issues in a vacuum and then attack the poor souls who are just looking for info does nothing to help expand the community. It only works to break it down.

TyroneShoes said:
So what WAS the intent of the rule? Don't hesitate to correct me, but it seems as if the intent of the rule was to not confuse HR10 posts with HR20 posts, since one is a Tivo and the other most certainly is not a Tivo (more a pretender to the throne).
Someone dug out the thread in one of these other flame ridden posts, but the original reason for the rule was because Tivo waved a big stick and told David they didn't want discussion of DirecTV's new DVR+ line here. And since Tivo pays the bills, David made the rule.

However, now that Tivo really isn't in competition anymore with the DVR+ platform it really doesn't matter anymore.

However, deeper discussions, support, help, questions, etc on the HR20 indeed should be directed to DBSTalk (and I continue to try to funnel people that way).

But to not be able to discuss options for people with HR10's that don't understand all that's going on like we do, it's just driving people away and hurting the community.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I am sorry. I didn't mean to start a pissing contest. I thought I was asking in the right place.

And tem is right, I am about 85 miles from Sacramento. There are stations in Chico, but I believe at this time, they are broadcsating at low power for HD. I have seen complaints about that in the AVS Chico HD forum.

I live near the lake in a bit of a geographical bowl, which is why I was told the mast needed to be so high. I will look into the Winegard and ask around. I don't see any big masts or antennas on the roofs around the neighborhood.

I appreciate the help, I really do. It frustrates me that I have all this expensive equipment, but because of the way the law is written, I can't get the network channels, even though I am willing to pay for them.
 
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