Handmaid's Tale 4x10 The Wilderness

My wife said she got chills at the end and felt very satisfied. Should this be a spoiler thread?

zalusky said:

My wife said she got chills at the end and felt very satisfied. Should this be a spoiler thread?

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It IS a spoiler thread!

Rob Helmerichs said:

So, June finally gave Serena the finger...

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Now she has 10 again, right?

It seems to be obvious that next season will be the final one and will deal with the aftereffects of this. June has picked Nick over Luke, despite Luke being a much better person for her. Kind of feeds into the cliché of girls always liking bad guys, or in this case bad girls really falling for bad guys.

markymark_ctown said:

Now she has 10 again, right?

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Yes, yes it does! The way she did was also scary!

wedgecon said:

It seems to be obvious that next season will be the final one and will deal with the aftereffects of this. June has picked Nick over Luke, despite Luke being a much better person for her. Kind of feeds into the cliché of girls always liking bad guys, or in this case bad girls really falling for bad guys.

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Either that or she can use Nick to get what she wants is getting Hanna back. Nick has more political capital than Luke ever did. She has learned about manipulation throughout all this as the flashbacks show.

wedgecon said:

It seems to be obvious that next season will be the final one and will deal with the aftereffects of this. June has picked Nick over Luke, despite Luke being a much better person for her. Kind of feeds into the cliché of girls always liking bad guys, or in this case bad girls really falling for bad guys.

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There's also the fact that she and Nick have shared a common experience of life in Gilead. While Luke feels terrible for what she endured, Nick understands it more.

ThePennyDropped said:

There's also the fact that she and Nick have shared a common experience of life in Gilead. While Luke feels terrible for what she endured, Nick understands it more.

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Yeah, Nick just plain knows her (the new her; she ain't who she used to be) better. Luke is pretty clueless.

I didn't see it coming that Commander Waterford would be killed by June and the women.

I figured he'd go to Geneva then go free or he'd be turned over to Gilead to be killed them by after standing trial or that he'd some manipulate his way back into power.

I had to back up at the scene where Serena Joy had Zoom up. Will be interesting next season when she learns what happened to Fred.

cwerdna said:

I didn't see it coming that Commander Waterford would be killed by June and the women.

I figured he'd go to Geneva then go free or he'd be turned over to Gilead to be killed them by after standing trial or that he'd some manipulate his way back into power.

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The moment he and Serena started acting so arrogantly, I knew he was doomed.

Seriously, though, foreshadowing aside, the two of them pretty much had everybody wanting them dead except the government folks who wanted him for his information, and June was clever enough to arrange for them to get something they wanted even more. It's interesting how many people had to cooperate to get him into those woods, and every one of them has been given good reason to want Fred dead.

I can't remember exactly what, but at the beginning of the episode, June said something that made me think immediately she was going to kill him. I think she realized that otherwise he gets away free, and that the Canadian government was going to facilitate that. So I knew by the end of the episode he was going to wind up dead. I get her revenge, but it doesn't change a thing in Gilead, and while she helped herself, it was extremely selfish. I would imagine there will be reprisals, even though it's possible (probable) that Gilead wanted him dead too.

I loved how Serena thought she was in control of the deposition with her demands. And yes the lawyer or whoever that woman was did hold Fred and Serena in contempt. They're unrepentant despicable people.

June (and the other other women) got their justice, but i'm surprised that she didn't ask for Hannah to be included in the exchange for Fred, even though it would never happen. I thought it was out of character for her not ask. My other half thought that Serena was in on the plot to get rid of Fred until she saw she was waiting on the Zoom meeting.

Bradley Whitford is a gem, truly underrated in this series. just so subtle and droll. I loved his conversation with Fred on the bridge.

Rob Helmerichs said:

So, June finally gave Serena the finger...

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Gold! Pure gold.

If you'd told me at the start of the season that Fred would end up dead, I wouldn't have believed it. But here we are. All in all a well done season finale.

Craigbob said:

Bradley Whitford is a gem, truly underrated in this series. just so subtle and droll. I loved his conversation with Fred on the bridge.

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I wonder what his character's ulterior motive is? On one hand we've seen he's sympathetic to June's cause, but he also seems to want to protect himself and keep power and he almost never lets on his intentions. At least with Nick, we know he's in love with June and that seems to trump whatever allegiance he has with Gilead. It would be simple for Lawrence to just be glad she's out of his hair and let her go, but he helps her in this deal. I can't recall, but I seem to remember he told the other commanders that having Fred back would not be a good thing? What does he get out of this? He's putting his life in danger.

Craigbob said:

Bradley Whitford is a gem, truly underrated in this series. just so subtle and droll.

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FWIW, Brent Spiner (aka Data on Star Trek TNG) auditioned for that role and obviously didn't get it.

He briefly mentioned it on a Galaxycon Live virtual meet in the past year or so.

cwerdna said:

FWIW, Brent Spiner (aka Data on Star Trek TNG) auditioned for that role and obviously didn't get it.

He briefly mentioned it on a Galaxycon Live virtual meet in the past year or so.

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Really! I can't see him in the role. I've seen Spiner in a lot of things, and he's a good actor. But I'm glad he didn't get the role of Lawrence, he would not have fit it as well.

Yeah, Spiner briefly mentioned Handmaid's Tale and Bradley Whitford by name. Not sure how the conversation went to that. I was either watching it live or a recording (upcoming ones at Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Horror).

I guess you're right, Bradley does seem like the better fit.

wedgecon said:

It seems to be obvious that next season will be the final one and will deal with the aftereffects of this. June has picked Nick over Luke, despite Luke being a much better person for her. Kind of feeds into the cliché of girls always liking bad guys, or in this case bad girls really falling for bad guys.

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I get that June and Nick have a shared trauma experience from Gilead, but Nick is actively participating in the Gilead government, so how is she still trying to get with him? Nick is just as bad as Waterford at this point, other than the fact that Waterford raped June, while Nick has probably raped whatever handmaid is assigned to him.

Craigbob said:

June (and the other other women) got their justice, but i'm surprised that she didn't ask for Hannah to be included in the exchange for Fred, even though it would never happen. I thought it was out of character for her not ask. My other half thought that Serena was in on the plot to get rid of Fred until she saw she was waiting on the Zoom meeting.

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I'm sure June asked for Hannah, but remember Lawrence is in Boston, and Nick told June that Hannah now lives with a family in San Diego, so it's unlikely Lawrence would have the necessary authority to get a kid from all the way across the country.

Steveknj said:

I wonder what his character's ulterior motive is? On one hand we've seen he's sympathetic to June's cause, but he also seems to want to protect himself and keep power and he almost never lets on his intentions. At least with Nick, we know he's in love with June and that seems to trump whatever allegiance he has with Gilead. It would be simple for Lawrence to just be glad she's out of his hair and let her go, but he helps her in this deal. I can't recall, but I seem to remember he told the other commanders that having Fred back would not be a good thing? What does he get out of this? He's putting his life in danger.

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I think Lawrence was just acting in Gilead's best interest, by silencing Waterford. I would guess that all the other commanders in Gilead would agree that Fred talking to the authorities and the International Criminal Court would not be good for Gilead, so Lawrence probably had the backing of other commanders to make the prisoner exchange and then conveniently look the other way as Waterford is disposed of.

wedgecon said:

June has picked Nick over Luke, despite Luke being a much better person for her. Kind of feeds into the cliché of girls always liking bad guys, or in this case bad girls really falling for bad guys.

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Hardly. Luke might be the "better person" but not for her. Luke is disgusted and horrified by the things she's done. Nick is a willing co-conspirator.

Rob Helmerichs said:

Yeah, Nick just plain knows her (the new her; she ain't who she used to be) better. Luke is pretty clueless.

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Right. She's back from war and he can't comprehend it.

Love the symbolic gesture of June returning her finger to her in the form of Fred's severed finger...

Man, a lot of moving parts to get this last "hunt for Fred" to become a reality... June would have had to have someone on the inside who was sympathetic to her cause AND had the power to negotiate the trade (i.e., Commander Lawrence)...and she would also have to have another insider who could partner/cooperation with the other insider and had the power to take Fred from Commander Lawrence and take him into his own custody and have the balls to take him to no man's land instead of to a proper holding cell and risk it all by basically losing Fred...

Wow... That was a pretty satisfying ending though...