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J-E-T-S JetsJetsJets
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JoeBarbs said:
Yes, you can plug it in but it may not work!

First of all, everyone's hoping that TiVo will end up using a Cablecard 2.0 (or at least multistream) card. What you can get today is a 1.0 card.

Also, most (if not all) cable providers tie their cablecards to the specific hardware it's installed in (this is part of the iinitialization process when the card is installed). So, you need to call the provider when moving the card from one device to another and the provider may be reluctant to authorize your TiVo if they haven't tested it.
 

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TechKnow Guide
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You might want to wait a couple more weeks .... Tivo should be announcing more information at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show.
 

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PP-ASEL
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
nyjklein said:
Yes, you can plug it in but it may not work!

First of all, everyone's hoping that TiVo will end up using a Cablecard 2.0 (or at least multistream) card. What you can get today is a 1.0 card.

Also, most (if not all) cable providers tie their cablecards to the specific hardware it's installed in (this is part of the iinitialization process when the card is installed). So, you need to call the provider when moving the card from one device to another and the provider may be reluctant to authorize your TiVo if they haven't tested it.
That's what i thought. I wonder how the setup process for the new tivo will be? Can't set it up without a cable card? Cable man must be there at the same time to install the card?
 

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Seasoned gas passer
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cbordman said:
...I wonder how the setup process for the new tivo will be? Can't set it up without a cable card?...
That should not be the case. You should be able to use it just fine without the cablecard.
 

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Contra sceleris
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Bierboy said:
That should not be the case. You should be able to use it just fine without the cablecard.
Yeah. That's my assumption as well- you should be able to record over the Air Digital and HiDef just fine. Dan203 does not think that it will have analog inputs like the SA, and he is usually right about such things. But because the cablecard spec says you have to support NTSC video with a tuner, so the CC Tivo would be able to display analog Cable channels. If you can display it, then it would be wierd if you couldn't record it. If you can record it, then you have to have an Mpeg encoder, probably mpeg2. If you have an mpeg2 encoder, then you can easily offer analog inputs like the SA. But if you add that, then you have to offer IR blaster support. So you start to pull at the thread and next thing you know you are unraveling the entire sweater. At some point program management puts a halt to the feature creap.

Where the line is drawn will be known very very soon. But in favor of analog inputs, this would allow multi mode, multivendor carriers- a product that is good for consumers since users could easily switch between carrier vendors from month to month based on how good their service and prices were.

So there is a technical and economic argument for analog inputs. It may well not be available due to concerns about engineering complexity or keeping the price as low as possible. Personally I'd like the analog inputs. Heck- I'd love SDI inputs. If they'd offer that, we could probably hack the Satellite boxes so we could re

nyjklein said:
Yes, you can plug it in but it may not work!

First of all, everyone's hoping that TiVo will end up using a Cablecard 2.0 (or at least multistream) card. What you can get today is a 1.0 card.
No reasonable person is expecting cablecard 2.0 support because cablecard 2.0 is not even finalized. You are correct about multistream. The cable industry HAS indicated to the FCC that multistream cards should be available by mid 2006, and people are hoping (with good reason) that Tivos will support them when they come out. I am betting they support two cablecard 1.0 cards, which the user can upgrade to one multistream card in the future. Although multistream appears on the Cablecard 2.0 feature list, these multistream cards are not 2.0 cards.
nyjklein said:
Also, most (if not all) cable providers tie their cablecards to the specific hardware it's installed in (this is part of the iinitialization process when the card is installed). So, you need to call the provider when moving the card from one device to another and the provider may be reluctant to authorize your TiVo if they haven't tested it.
When cablecard hosts are certified by CableLabs as being compliant, the local carrier is in no position to disallow a particular cablecard device. They are subject to FCC sanctions if they do. Tivo has a certfied host according to CableLabs. Cable companies are required by FCC regulation to offer cablecards and all the majors now do. Cable companies do not have the option of declining to support cablecard devices which are certified as being cablecard compliant.
 

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J-E-T-S JetsJetsJets
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Justin Thyme said:
When cablecard hosts are certified by CableLabs as being compliant, the local carrier is in no position to disallow a particular cablecard device. They are subject to FCC sanctions if they do. Tivo has a certfied host according to CableLabs. Cable companies are required by FCC regulation to offer cablecards and all the majors now do. Cable companies do not have the option of declining to support cablecard devices which are certified as being cablecard compliant.
What the FCC mandates and what the cable companies do in practice to hinder cablecard adoption are two separate things. The cable companies know full well that unless they do something really blatant, the FCC won't even consider a complaint.

I should also say that I expect the upcoming TiVo to work just fine without a cablcard. I would expect that it will be able to decode all OTA ATSC channels and all unencrypted cable carried channels, analog as well as QAM digital SD and HD. The cablecard is only needed to decrypt/decode encrypted/scrambled cable channels (and to provide the commonly expected channel mappings).
 

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I don't have any experience to comment on what happens in practice, but it seems to me that if a Tivo User buys a CC Tivo and the local company refuses to install a Cablecard into it, then Tivo Support is going to get a call about it.

I think that nearly all problems that will occur will be due to lack of experience or knowlege since that is most often the case. But if Tivo Support finds that the local provider is deliberately obstructing Tivo's, you can bet it will get escalated and the Cable Company's feet will get held to the fire.

I wouldn't be at all surprized if some Cableco's were tempted to play games with devices that their equipment doesn't interoperate well with. That is why having a strong FCC is vital to our interests as Consumers- something to remember in the next year as congress considers some fairly radical laws designed to gut the FCC. One such bill is the DACA "Digital age Communications act"

ITWorld article said:
The FCC could move to fine communications carriers only after it proves a set of conditions, including "clear and convincing evidence" that there's not enough other competition to protect consumers; that the carrier's action causes or is likely to cause substantial injury to consumers; and that consumers cannot avoid the carrier's actions.
As far as I can tell, if this bill became law, the cableco could play all the games it wanted, and for the FCC to be able to do anything you'd have to prove with clear and convincing evidence that they had in fact done something that caused "substantial injury" to the consumer, and that the consumer could not avoid the carrier's action.

So even if you could prove they were playing games, the court would toss out any FCC action even if they tried, because the consumer could avoid the carrier's action by not buying a CC Tivo.
 

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Mostly Harmless
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nyjklein said:
Also, most (if not all) cable providers tie their cablecards to the specific hardware it's installed in (this is part of the iinitialization process when the card is installed). So, you need to call the provider when moving the card from one device to another and the provider may be reluctant to authorize your TiVo if they haven't tested it.
Yes indeed ... CableCards are tied to a specific piece of hardware.

In theory ... all you should have to do when moving a CableCard to a new piece of equipment is to call the cable provider and read them a series of numbers that show up on screen. They enter the numbers and ... the CableCard is authorized for the new equipment (but not for the old equipment anymore).

In practice though ... the cable company may still insist on sending someone out.
 

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Justin Thyme said:
Yeah. That's my assumption as well- you should be able to record over the Air Digital and HiDef just fine. Dan203 does not think that it will have analog inputs like the SA, and he is usually right about such things. But because the cablecard spec says you have to support NTSC video with a tuner, so the CC Tivo would be able to display analog Cable channels.
In this area, there are unencrypted QAM channels, mostly HD, that you can view on your CableCard TV if you don't lease a CableCard and just have basic cable.
 
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