Explaining Serial control in Cable company lingo?

24856 Views 50 Replies 22 Participants Last post by mbernste, Jun 28, 2006

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · Oct 12, 2003

Howdy,

Just got my third SA Tivo (the Pioneer 810HS) and am using all of them in conjunction with Charter Cable's digital service. The STBs are all DCT-2224 models and, of course, the serial port on each is (as far as I can tell) disabled. They are all running 7.72 firmware, so they should be controllable if the ports were turned on. Right so far?

I've had a number of lengthy chats with CSRs in regional support and at the head-end office for the system I'm on. The challenge has been in explaining what the serial port is / is used for. Once I get past that, the show stopper is that Charter's "system" (as viewable by a CSR) in this area doesn't have a place to check "turn serial port on".

Tomorrow, I will be speaking with the person who "manages STB configuration" for my area. When I have this conversation, it would be very helpful for me to be able to explain what I am after in terms that he/she is familiar with.

Specifically, when looking at Motorola "head-end" equipment, what is the serial port called? Is there a "feature code" to turn this on? What "screen" or "menu" is this likely to be found under on the Cable company's configuration equipment. In other words, I would like to tell the person "go to screen XX and look at item YY, that's what I'm talking about".

Second, can anyone think of what the "downside" might be for the Cable company to turn this on? I want to be prepared to say "there is no downside for turning this on", but when I do, what arguments might they have that I could try to address?

I hope that the more specific I can be in explaining this in their terms, the better chance I will have of getting some action. It is still possible (likely) that nothing will come of this, but I want to make the best case possible when I try. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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mbernste

· #2 · Oct 12, 2003

There's a lot more to it than turning it on. They have to write a script, test it, make sure it doesn't adversely affect other systems and then put it on the headends. In other words, you aren't going to get serial control.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by mbernste
There's a lot more to it than turning it on. They have to write a script, test it, make sure it doesn't adversely affect other systems and then put it on the headends. In other words, you aren't going to get serial control.

Ok, I get that, and I know my chances are slim. However...

The necessary script already exists: We know this is true because Comcast and other cable companies have written and deployed it, we know that the folks at Tivo have seen it work and know what's in it, we also know that Motorola knows what needs to be in this script. While Comcast surely won't hand the script over to Charter, Tivo and Motorola should have no problem making it available, and both have incentive to do so.

Testing: True, this is a must, and this takes time and resources. Still, the results of testing by Tivo and Motorola should be available to Charter (per above) to mitigate the overall effort. I would like to point Charter directly to those results ("go to this website, or Motorola PDF, or whatever and see how easy and safe it is") so that they can consider providing this service to their customers.

So, a question for Tivo folks: Where can I point Charter to the information they need to make this as easy and inexpensive as possible? I'm looking for specific resources, not a blanket RTFM. Ideally, a URL or service document page number, or something.

Yes, it's a long shot but I'm willing to try a few more times. If I keep asking, they may still say no, but if nobody asks, they will surely do nothing.

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mbernste

· #4 · Oct 12, 2003

Your chances are less than zero, let me tell you why. I have Comcast and I made several phone calls and used other resources to get it turned on. They won't do it despite the fact that in ex-AT&T areas they have the scripts working.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by mbernste
Your chances are less than zero, let me tell you why. I have Comcast and I made several phone calls and used other resources to get it turned on. They won't do it despite the fact that in ex-AT&T areas they have the scripts working.

Ouch! That really stinks! I assume that your are in an area that was Comcast before the merger? I guess only the AT&T folks ever got the goodies.

I'm sure you're right that Charter won't be any different. I have no delusions regarding sucess, but I haven't exhausted all my contacts in Charter yet and am willing to waste a couple more phone calls.

While undoubtely under the tight control of corporate HQ, the head-end that serves me is somewhat of an island for Charter in this state. As a smaller operation, I think I can get access to a technically savvy person or two with whom to state my case. There is no way they would do anything that corp-HQ doesn't allow, but they might just listen to me. Heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

mdscott

· #6 · Oct 12, 2003

Take a look at this page from Charter -- it provides downloads of the relevant manuals. This includes the installation and troubleshooting manual for the DCT 2000.

One problem you will note is that Motorola identifies the port as a "Parallel Port" to be used for interfacing serial devices.

Sighs and sadness,

mds

ps: before calling listen to the sound track of Man of La Mancha

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by mdscott
Take a look at this page from Charter -- it provides downloads of the relevant manuals. This includes the installation and troubleshooting manual for the DCT 2000.

One problem you will note is that Motorola identifies the port as a "Parallel Port" to be used for interfacing serial devices.

Sighs and sadness,

mds

ps: before calling listen to the sound track of Man of La Mancha

Thanks! Yeah, user guide page 2.3 "PARALLEL PORT" -- "Use this serial data connector..." gaak!

I wonder what this is called in the service and configuration manual? Prolly something like "PRINTER PORT - Use this port to serially transfer mumble codes in parallel..."

P.S. regarding Man of La Mancha

-- LOL!!!

--mojoTivo

Sromkie

· #8 · Oct 13, 2003

I hate to be another cynic here, but you don't really have a shot at making this happen. Here's why:

1. The reps aren't trained on this functionality of the boxes at all. Because of this, you are lucky if you find a rep that even knows that there is a serial port on the box. If you do find a rep that knows of the port, they still weren't trained on it, so they would have no way of knowing how to activate it.

2. The only interface that the reps have to modify how your box functions is through a single system. Although there are quite a few changes that can be made, they all have to do with what services you can get or not get.

3. It can probably only be done through a firmware update on your box. Unfortunately, reps don't have a way to do this for you.

Now, I am not trying to say that there is no one that could do this for you, but it definitely won't be anyone that you can talk to in a call center. Either way though, good luck. Let us all know if you end up finding a solution.

bkeyport

· #9 · Oct 13, 2003

here's another factoid - If you have a serial port, AND Comcast found out about it, they'd deactivate your box saying it was needing an upgrade to a non-serial port box.

How fun is that.

Hope charter isn't THAT brain dead.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by Sromkie
I hate to be another cynic here, but you don't really have a shot at making this happen. Here's why:

1. The reps aren't trained on this functionality of the boxes at all... <snip>

2. The only interface that the reps have to modify how your box functions is through a single system. Although there are quite a few changes that can be made, they all have to do with what services you can get or not get.... <snip>

3. It can probably only be done through a firmware update on your box. Unfortunately, reps don't have a way to do this for you.
...

Regarding points 1 & 2: Yes, that exactly matches my experience so far. When I spoke to the national support line, they didn't even know that the box had a serial ("What's that?") port, and the CSR hadn't heard of a Tivo. I got luckier at the head-end and spoke to a CSR that --did-- know about both (a Tivo fan himself) and confirmed that the CSR-accessible system had no option for doing anything with the serial port.

My next stop is with technical management (outside the customer support chain) and while little is likely to come of it, I think I'm getting close to someone who actually configures head-end equipment. We'll see.

Regarding point 3: From the posts by TivoPony and others on this site, I don't think a firmware upgrade is required. My STBs are running 7.72 and this exceeds the stated minimum required of 7.54. I think what is required is a "script" of the necessary "service codes" (right term?) needs to be written and then executed so that the right list/order of codes is sent to my STBs. Anyone know if this sounds right?

If I look at the sysinfo status screen on the DCT-2224, I see a series of codes updating in real-time... I assume that some combination of codes of this type would do it. Anyone know what a cable compay calls these codes? "Service Codes"? "Status Codes"? "MPEG Control Codes"???

I further assume that there is a configuration interface that cable engineers use, that is COMPLETELY different from the system that a CSR has access to. I would assume that the "engineer's interface" (to guess at the term) would have the necessary options, and that if I knew what those options were called (in the engineer's lingo) I could express myself better if I ever get to speak to one. I totally agree with all the cynics that my chances of even speaking to one are slim, and getting him/her to pursue the change are slimmer, but what the heck.

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mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #11 · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by bkeyport
here's another factoid - If you have a serial port, AND Comcast found out about it, they'd deactivate your box saying it was needing an upgrade to a non-serial port box.

How fun is that.

Hope charter isn't THAT brain dead.

I wouldn't put it past any large MSO...

Here's how I see this playing out. I keep pestering folks at Charter (as nicely as possible) until I get a firm no from someone who actually knows what I'm talking about. Then:

Best Case Scenario -- They tell me "No, go away!" but in the back of their mind they remember that somebody asked for this a few months down the line when more Tivo folks are complaining, and when they are speaking to HQ engineering about any configuration changes. They might say "Hey Joe, ya know, a few months back some wacko was pestering me to turn on this useless port. It didn't sound too hard, should we even look at it?" Joe, at HQ, will say "Nah, ignore it... well, nah... well, you can look, but don't change it without calling me back..." or some such.

Hey, a guy can dream can't he?

mdscott

· #12 · Oct 13, 2003

And then the change actually gets implemented [hey it IS a dream] ... but does Joe (or anybody) ever contact the Wacko who called... Or do they ever announce the change to anybody outside the engineering community...

Drat -- there goes the alarm.

mds

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by mdscott
And then the change actually gets implemented [hey it IS a dream] ... but does Joe (or anybody) ever contact the Wacko who called... Or do they ever announce the change to anybody outside the engineering community...

Drat -- there goes the alarm.

mds

ROFL!

ILubMyTivo

· #14 · Oct 13, 2003

<-- Has Charter
<-- Has a Digital Cable Box that works with the "serial" "parallel" "printer" port

Let me know if you want to compare notes.

I also know somebody that works for Charter in NC, but I don't know if they will be able to help you, I can check with him.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by ILubMyTivo
<-- Has Charter
<-- Has a Digital Cable Box that works with the "serial" "parallel" "printer" port

Let me know if you want to compare notes.

I also know somebody that works for Charter in NC, but I don't know if they will be able to help you, I can check with him.

Thanks, please do! The person I was going to speak to today is not in until tomorrow. I'm flying out on business tomorrow, but will try to make the call late tomorrow or Wednesday.

ILubMyTivo

· #16 · Oct 14, 2003

I am sorry, my friend does not work on the digital cable side of Charter, just the data / Internet side. He is checking into if he can get me a name. I'll let you know.

Also, I can send you a PM of my phone number if you want to compare notes on the cable boxes, I do not know the model number, and it does not say anything on the back. I can tell you that it just worked for me, plug serial in, configure tivo, and viola.

Let me know what information I can give, be glad to help.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 15, 2003

Spoke to a few more folks at Charter today. Got an engineer who knew what I was talking about, and said he would call Motorola to get the scoop on what the task (configuring the serial port to allow channel changing) would entail. He said it would take a day or two and he would call me back. Nice guy and I believe sincere. I have his name and will call him next week if I don't hear anything. So, status is I haven't gotten a firm "no" quite yet.

mojoTivo

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 15, 2003

Originally posted by ILubMyTivo
I am sorry, my friend does not work on the digital cable side of Charter, just the data / Internet side. He is checking into if he can get me a name. I'll let you know.

Also, I can send you a PM of my phone number if you want to compare notes on the cable boxes, I do not know the model number, and it does not say anything on the back. I can tell you that it just worked for me, plug serial in, configure tivo, and viola.

Let me know what information I can give, be glad to help.

The model info for the boxes I have is on a sticker on the bottom of each box. The whole DCT-2000 series looks fairly similar otherwise.

Are you saying that the serial control on your box DOES work? Very cool! If this is with Charter, please PM me with your general location. If Charter has even one box where this works, I can tell the engineer that he can speak with the folks at your head-end.

Thanks!

ILubMyTivo

· #19 · Oct 15, 2003

Originally posted by mojoTivo
The model info for the boxes I have is on a sticker on the bottom of each box. The whole DCT-2000 series looks fairly similar otherwise.

I have a DCT2224/1161/ACDEG

EDIT: I do not know how to check the firmware of the box, if somebody could point me in the right direction I could tell you this information as well.

Originally posted by mojoTivo
Are you saying that the serial control on your box DOES work? Very cool! If this is with Charter, please PM me with your general location. If Charter has even one box where this works, I can tell the engineer that he can speak with the folks at your head-end.

Yes, and I live in Wausau, WI

EDIT: Just to clarify; yes, my serial connection did at one time work, however, I have had the cable box unhooked from my Tivo for some time. I used to have the movie channels which required the digital cable box so I hooked it up to my tivo and found the right hookup code. The problem that I ultimately made me disconnect was because I could not find a code that would go faster than the slow speed for the channel change. It drove me friggen nuts. Eventually I just disconnected the cable box and just use it as a tuner for a non tivo'd tv.

If you need me to hook it back up to see if I can get it working again, I should be able to do that for you.

Please note that I was using a Series 1 at that time, I have not hooked it up to my Series 2.

Originally posted by mojoTivo
Thanks!

NP, and I'd be glad to help in any way I can

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mdscott

· #20 · Oct 15, 2003

Originally posted by ILubMyTivo
I have a DCT2224/1161/ACDEG

The problem that I ultimately made me disconnect was because I could not find a code that would go faster than the slow speed for the channel change. It drove me friggen nuts. Eventually I just disconnected the cable box and just use it as a tuner for a non tivo'd tv.

A word of caution -- at least with Comcast and DCT 2000 no code was necessary for serial to work...

The TiVo (besides sending IR through the blaster) sends an IR signal out through the front. There have been instances where people believed they were using serial but the cable box was being controlled by the IR from the from of the TiVo. A test covering receiver in front of the cable box is a good idea to make sure.

mds

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