[bsbd]

Thanks for the pic, that pretty much confirms at least in my mind that the Network Setup 2-way is just a dummy variable written into the MCard firmware code, perhaps reserved for a never realized future 2-way version of the card.

The article says the HSC sends Auto Discovery Registration Message comms back to the DAC. ADRM messages could just be a simple heartbeat or an acknowledgement back to the DAC of having successfully received a previously sent data packet. Regardless, I find it strange that Spectrum didn't enable this 2-way behavior in the DAC by default as Cox must have done.

 

[Teeps]

What an adventure the last couple weeks have been. To give some background, I live in a Spectrum area that was upgraded to a High-Split Converter area a couple months ago or so. We received our HSC boxes, I swapped them with our tuning adapters, and had working TiVo. It worked for about a month. Suddenly, a couple weeks ago, both of our TiVo premieres lost all channels. They are BOTH displaying the v58 error code. Three techs have come out, to no avail, and I’ve also spent hours on the phone with Spectrum troubleshooting etc. The cable card brand is the Motorola one. Has anyone else recently experienced this that can point me in the right direction??? As we all know here, people in this forum are more knowledgeable than 99% of Spectrum employees.

Thank you all very much for your help.

I'm just throwing this out there, as I've only skimmed this thread.
But late last year spectrum serving Torrance, ca sent letter saying I needed new cable cards; something about powerkey.

https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/spectrum-letter-dated-08-23-2024-requiring-new-cablecard-to-be-installed-by-10-22-2024-massachusetts.594757/

 

[bsbd]

I'm just throwing this out there, as I've only skimmed this thread.
But late last year spectrum serving Torrance, ca sent letter saying I needed new cable cards; something about powerkey.

In this case he has a Motorola card which doesn't have an expiration issue like the PowerKey.

 

[shulercox]

I might agree about the TiVo System Information and Diagnostics screens, they're a bit crude, but the low-rez cableCARD screens themselves show the exact states of variables pulled directly from the card. Alas nevermind though, I thought the state of the Network Setup/2-Way variable might offer a clue but I just found some old pics from 2022 where my card's Network Setup/2-Way variable was also Unknown back then, way before there was an HSC.



I'm sure your HSC must have been provisioned correctly for it to work as a simple tuning resolver before they turned off the legacy OOB causing your Motorola cablecard to stop working.

Paraphrasing the Moto/Arris overview in Keith Perry's article, a second important function of the HSC when used in Moto systems is to talk back to the headend's DAC and fool it into thinking the Moto MCard is 2-way. He details how the HSC sends the messages upstream to the DAC and handshakes with it but the HSC has to be a "configured device type on the DAC" for it to all work. It's finally settling in on me that enabling 2-Way addressability must mean configuring the HSC as a 2-Way device like he's talking about, plus after reading that part of his article yet again it's it's sounding like this HSC device type definition is actually a setting in the upstream DAC config rather than something residing in the residential CC or HSC. I suspect that your HSC could have been sending communications back upstream all along from the start but the misconfigured DAC was just ignoring it until belatedly being told to listen up.

But I totally agree with you that for the purposes of the OP keeping it simple with a tech the phrase about turning on "two-way addressability" conveys in a nutshell what a Spectrum tech needs to hear. That's what he should say and hopefully the tech can make that happen or kick it up to level 2 if necessary.

Now, having said all that, I still don't really understand Spectrum's "Step 1" upgrade that kills our Tivo's w/o the HSC. I suspect that it does involve the OOB, either relocating it or removing it. Now for some heresy. My Step 1 was 4/8/2024. I had a V58 error and the CA screen showed Auth: OC. I had lost all channels both SDV and non-SDV. It was cured on 4/11/2024 by provisioning the CC as two-way. On 8/26/2024 Spectrum did something that caused a service outage, but after they said "Service Restored" my service did not come back: V58, Auth: OC. Truck roll with no joy but I found out the technicians can create a Level 2 Support Ticket. CSR told me my account was labeled "Pre-high-split." On 9/2/2025 a Spectrum Level 2 support guy called me and tried some stuff including Host ID and/or Data ID (I think that's a Motorola thing). He did seem to know his stuff but no joy while on the phone. But, some time later it started working. Here's the heresy, in December, and true today, I noticed that I got all the non-SDV channels with the HSC USB unplugged. This was true whether the Tivo and HSC were in parallel or series. So, acting like the old TA. Conventional wisdom is that if you are "on high-split" you can't get any channels w/o the HSC. I now think the high-split upgrades are a process, possibly two steps forward, one back, even though I have been assured Spectrum would not roll things back. Spectrum is saying I may get symmetrical in February. My best hypothesis would be that Spectrum has restored the OOB, now possibly waiting to kill it as the last thing instead of the first thing.

 

[bsbd]

Now, having said all that, I still don't really understand Spectrum's "Step 1" upgrade that kills our Tivo's w/o the HSC. I suspect that it does involve the OOB, either relocating it or removing it. Now for some heresy. My Step 1 was 4/8/2024. I had a V58 error and the CA screen showed Auth: OC. I had lost all channels both SDV and non-SDV. It was cured on 4/11/2024 by provisioning the CC as two-way.

Relative to what you're calling Step 1, I would call it Step 0 when Spectrum sent out HSCs in your area to replace old tuning adapters. Your HSC would have been working fine as a tuning resolver since 2-way ADSG comms weren't required for that function. Of course the whole point of the HSC was to also do ADSG to legacy OOB SCTE 55-1/2 conversion on site, but prior to Spectrum shutting down the legacy OOB your cablecard was obviously still getting its conditional access authorization the old fashioned way via the legacy OOB coax path from outside your house. It wouldn't have mattered whether your HSC was wired parallel or serial.

So your Step 1 problem event sounds like it was when they turned off the legacy OOB before setting up the HSC as a 2-way device in the DAC. Your cablecard would had nowhere to get its conditional access authorization due to the DAC configuration error keeping the ADSG from reaching the HSC. That sounds about right for what the OP is experiencing now.

On 8/26/2024 Spectrum did something that caused a service outage, but after they said "Service Restored" my service did not come back: V58, Auth: OC. Truck roll with no joy but I found out the technicians can create a Level 2 Support Ticket. CSR told me my account was labeled "Pre-high-split." On 9/2/2025 a Spectrum Level 2 support guy called me and tried some stuff including Host ID and/or Data ID (I think that's a Motorola thing). He did seem to know his stuff but no joy while on the phone. But, some time later it started working.

This reminds me of when I first got my Vecima HSC. Trying to get it going to receive SDV was a chore. I talked to a couple of different Cox techs over the phone and finally the level 2 person I was speaking to threw up her hands and ordered a truck roll. I proceeded to watch primary channels, and then out of the blue an hour or two later the SDV mini carousel channels started to work. It was a very long delay between what the techs were doing with the provisioning and when it finally flowed through to made my HSC happy.

Here's the heresy, in December, and true today, I noticed that I got all the non-SDV channels with the HSC USB unplugged. This was true whether the Tivo and HSC were in parallel or series. So, acting like the old TA. Conventional wisdom is that if you are "on high-split" you can't get any channels w/o the HSC......My best hypothesis would be that Spectrum has restored the OOB, now possibly waiting to kill it as the last thing instead of the first thing.

The fact that you're still getting non-SDV channels with the USB unplugged makes perfect sense because the HSC sends the locally-generated OOB to the TiVo via the coax output spigot rather than USB.

To me the only conclusion that can be safely drawn is that Spectrum hasn't turned off the non-SDV QAM streams as of yet. Those channels all exist at frequencies > 500 MHz, well above the high-split 258 MHz downstream boundary limit, so their existence isn't preventing Spectrum from giving you symmetrical upstream internet. They might not turn them off until much later down the road when the bandwidth they're occupying is deemed better-used for some other downstream service.

For clues to movement in the direction of needing to clear out more downstream space you could periodically check the HSC's channel map to see if you can spot any migration from non-SDV to SDV mini-carousel delivered channels. So far I haven't seen anything conclusive here.

 

[shulercox]

Relative to what you're calling Step 1, I would call it Step 0 when Spectrum sent out HSCs in your area to replace old tuning adapters. Your HSC would have been working fine as a tuning resolver since 2-way ADSG comms weren't required for that function. Of course the whole point of the HSC was to also do ADSG to legacy OOB SCTE 55-1/2 conversion on site, but prior to Spectrum shutting down the legacy OOB your cablecard was obviously still getting its conditional access authorization the old fashioned way via the legacy OOB coax path from outside your house. It wouldn't have mattered whether your HSC was wired parallel or serial.

So your Step 1 problem event sounds like it was when they turned off the legacy OOB before setting up the HSC as a 2-way device in the DAC. Your cablecard would had nowhere to get its conditional access authorization due to the DAC configuration error keeping the ADSG from reaching the HSC. That sounds about right for what the OP is experiencing now.



This reminds me of when I first got my Vecima HSC. Trying to get it going to receive SDV was a chore. I talked to a couple of different Cox techs over the phone and finally the level 2 person I was speaking to threw up her hands and ordered a truck roll. I proceeded to watch primary channels, and then out of the blue an hour or two later the SDV mini carousel channels started to work. It was a very long delay between what the techs were doing with the provisioning and when it finally flowed through to made my HSC happy.




The fact that you're still getting non-SDV channels with the USB unplugged makes perfect sense because the HSC sends the locally-generated OOB to the TiVo via the coax output spigot rather than USB.

To me the only conclusion that can be safely drawn is that Spectrum hasn't turned off the non-SDV QAM streams as of yet. Those channels all exist at frequencies > 500 MHz, well above the high-split 258 MHz downstream boundary limit, so their existence isn't preventing Spectrum from giving you symmetrical upstream internet. They might not turn them off until much later down the road when the bandwidth they're occupying is deemed better-used for some other downstream service.

For clues to movement in the direction of needing to clear out more downstream space you could periodically check the HSC's channel map to see if you can spot any migration from non-SDV to SDV mini-carousel delivered channels. So far I haven't seen anything conclusive here.

I haven't heard anything at all about turning off QAM streams. Do you mean full IPTV? Or do you just mean full SDV? I currently have 608 SDV channels out of 841 total. I think one significant factor is that the HSC has the by-pass for non-sdv QAM. Is OOB, either actual or simulated, necessary for non-SDV channels?

 

[bsbd]

I haven't heard anything at all about turning off QAM streams. Do you mean full IPTV? Or do you just mean full SDV?

There's the rub. Even with mid and high-split upstream splits I can envision a whole range of possibilities, i.e. channel maps staying like they are now for a very long time, migrating to serving most channels via the five mini-carousel frequencies the way that's done now, or pulling the plug and going full IPTV and shutting down all QAM video.

It seems that Spectrum and Cox customers have the best chance at QAM lasting the longest. I feel that despite the terrible old tuning adapters we're still fortunate to be on a cable system that chose way back when to go the super-efficient mini carousel route, and now with an HSC in da house there appears to be the possibility of the converting DOCSIS delivered video and delivering it to the HSC RF coax output.

I currently have 608 SDV channels out of 841 total.

I've got 187 SDV channels out of 420 total, a much lower percentage than you. Interesting.

I think one significant factor is that the HSC has the by-pass for non-sdv QAM. Is OOB, either actual or simulated, necessary for non-SDV channels?

Great question. I'd say yes, OOB will always needed at least for conditional access authorization.

 

[shulercox]

You and I may have something else in common as I might have mentioned. I deduce that Spectrum Phase 1, in some markets including here in DFW will be mid-split. My EU2251 modem will meet the Phase 1 goals including up to 2/1 gig down/up. However, it is limited to mid-split with an u/s max of 85 MHz. Do you know of any way to differentiate a legacy OOB channel from the HSC emulation? I might be imagining things, but my current hypothesis is that last year Spectrum killed the OOB, but later ran into problems (including me) and restored the legacy OOB so now you might be able to get it either way. Spectrum set top boxes used to have physical 2-way MCards but I think the newer ones do the same thing in firmware. I have a Spectrum set top box that has not blinked (although I don't check it much) throughout all the Tivo's trials and tribulations.

 

[bsbd]

Do you know of any way to differentiate a legacy OOB channel from the HSC emulation? I might be imagining things, but my current hypothesis is that last year Spectrum killed the OOB, but later ran into problems (including me) and restored the legacy OOB so now you might be able to get it either way.

I don't know any sure fire way to tell if the legacy OOB is present short of switching to parallel coax mode with the splitter and see if you lose all your channels (perhaps after a Tivo reboot, maybe even without). I'll admit I'm also curious whether Cox has turned off its legacy OOB, but not curious enough to go asking for trouble when things are working well as they are now wired serially.

It sounds to me like prior to what you called Step 1 your HSC was obviously passing through the legacy OOB since you were wired serially and almost certainly wouldn't have been getting ADSG yet due to the 2-way addressability issue. I wish the signal flow shown in the high-split converter block diagram in KP's article was a little more clear about what happens if the HSC sees both legacy OOB and ADSG data incoming. I would think they would filter out the legacy OOB and give ADSG priority, but there's no way to tell for sure from the drawing.

 

[shulercox]

I have done a fair amount of experimenting and generally you can't really hurt anything or require reprovisioning unless you are stubborn about making it work a certain way. Usually if you go back to the last known good, then it is good again. I think that popping and reinserting the CC changes the data id on a Motorola and therefore might require reprovisioning. The thing that seems slightly odd for me right now (in serial mode) is: a) Pulling the USB kills SDV but not non-SDV, but 2) pulling the HSC power kills both SDV and non-SDV, but 3) in parallel, pulling the HSC power does not kill the non-SDV. So, with 1) and 3) it's acting just like an old TA and suggests it is now getting the legacy OOB. My slightly vague recollection is with the old TA's pulling the TA power would not kill the non-SDV's. In other words, even with the TA off, signals were being passed through. But now it looks like an HSC with power off will not pass through video and/or OOB. In parallel, of course, the signals just go around the HSC.

 

[bsbd]

HSC is an active output device, so in other words there isn't an internal pass-thru bypass when powered off.

That's more common than not, but there are components that provide for internal bypass when powered off. My home theater setup includes the TiVo Roamio Pro feeding a Denon AVR which in turn feeds an LG TV, and when the Denon is powered down there's an internal relay that closes to allow the TiVo signal to pass-thru unprocessed to the TV. The Vecima doesn't have any such relay so when it's powered down the coax cable signal hits a brick wall and the TiVo sees nothing. That's why in a serial configuration the HSC should normally be powered up when the TiVo is powered . This is particularly critical when the TiVo is booting and needs to see the incoming cable signal present.

The reason I'm leery about too much configuration swapping probably stems from my past experience doing periodic backups of my Roamio Pro's 8TB HDD. Every few months I would take the drive out to clone it in a dock and would always be able to put it back into service and carry on without losing cablecard settings. But the first time I did that after installing the Vecima HSC I did lose my cablecard settings which necessitated calling Cox to have things reprovisioned. The Roamio was out of service for maybe 15-18 hours for the backup during which time I left the HSC powered on and connected to cable. I don't know what happened, but I think at some point the HSC must have reported back to its Cox host that the cablecard was MIA which caused the backend system to reset. Lesson learned. The next time I did a backup I made sure to power off/on the TiVo and HSC together and did not lose the settings, so from then on I've generally powered them up/down together to keep the HSC and DAC from discussing the state of the cablecard. I really hate going through that process with Cox and sort of feel that one day I won't get it back going.

 

[shulercox]

Yes, the ways of the HSC are still a little mysterious. It has a remarkable ability to cure itself by rebooting and I would never give up on it without letting it blink overnight. I don't think, unlike with the old TA, I have ever had a provisioning issue directly related to the HSC. Other Spectrum screw-ups sure. In the beginning, way before high split upgrades started, the HSC would usually reboot whenever I restarted the Tivo. It doesn't do that much anymore. Of course, an HSC reboot is a bit of a PITA because after it boots, the TIVo has to realize what has happened.

BTW, I have tried to get some product information from Vecima with no luck. I wa unable to get on their portal after admitting I'm "just a user" and not one of their telecom partners. The HSC-1-H doesn't even show in their menu. I suppose technically and officially, the HSC is not a Vecima product. It is a Spectrum (or Cox) product that was designed by Vecima, manufactured by HUMAX, and sold to the cableco for their use. Can't really see the need for the secrecy.

 

[bsbd]

My HSC has been remarkably stable. There was an automatic reboot just after they pushed out the 1.8.0 firmware update during the first overnight maintenance window after hooking it up, but since then I've only noticed a very few which I feel were caused by the pretty crappy signal I often get from Cox. But the HSC seems to tolerate it a lot better than the Arris cable modem, so high marks for that.

I've also searched the Vecima website for info, even delving into the white paper product info for their multi dwelling unit (MDU) gateways mentioned in KP's article. Each of those rack-mounted units contain multiple cablecard modules, but none of the product info was very enlightening.

 

[MediaTechGuy]

UPDATE:

So I’ve got channels again, no thanks to spectrum or their “techs” I was troubleshooting, trying literally everything, and eventually here’s what I did:

I power cycled both the hsc and TiVo premiere series 4, but this time I unplugged the usb cable from the Vecima before powering it back on. Now I seem to be getting channels. Is this what you have been referring to as “parallel mode”?

 

[shulercox]

UPDATE:

So I’ve got channels again, no thanks to spectrum or their “techs” I was troubleshooting, trying literally everything, and eventually here’s what I did:

I power cycled both the hsc and TiVo premiere series 4, but this time I unplugged the usb cable from the Vecima before powering it back on. Now I seem to be getting channels. Is this what you have been referring to as “parallel mode”?

No, parallel would be if the Tivo and HSC each have their own feed off of a splitter. Series is when the cable goes first to the HSC, then to the Tivo. What you did is just the best practice for rebooting the HSC: leave the USB disconnected until the LED stops blinking, then connect the USB. The HSC does seem to have the ability to self-correct faults that would have required reprovisioning with the old TA's. There is also the possibility that someone at Spectrum followed up and tweaked something.

 

[MediaTechGuy]

No, parallel would be if the Tivo and HSC each have their own feed off of a splitter. Series is when the cable goes first to the HSC, then to the Tivo. What you did is just the best practice for rebooting the HSC: leave the USB disconnected until the LED stops blinking, then connect the USB. The HSC does seem to have the ability to self-correct faults that would have required reprovisioning with the old TA's. There is also the possibility that someone at Spectrum followed up and tweaked something.

ah interesting. What’s even weirder to me is I never plugged in the USB cable back into my Vecima, but still have channels.

 

[bsbd]

ah interesting. What’s even weirder to me is I never plugged in the USB cable back into my Vecima, but still have channels.

Are you sure you're getting ALL your channels? Without a USB cable connected you should be getting your system's non-SDV channels but not getting the SDV (switched digital) channels. Typically non-SDV channels are the most common primary channels and SDV are an extended set of channels, but it varies from system to system. For example I get several HBO channels... the main HBO channel and one or two others are non-SDV but the rest are SDV and I would get a V58 error trying to tune them in without the USB connected.

 

[coxshuler]

ah interesting. What’s even weirder to me is I never plugged in the USB cable back into my Vecima, but still have channels.

So, you’re not getting your SDV channels. There are only 2 or 3 SDV channels that we watch.

 

[coxshuler]

Plug in the usb and then have a little patience as the TiVo figures things out. The method I recommend to identify your SDV channels is to unplug the usb and see which channels disappear. You will have a different channel map, but for me Smithsonian, AMC, and Vice are SDV. Also as mentioned the primary premium channel will be non-SDV while the secondary ones are SDV. For me, HBO is 501 and non-SDV, but there is also 502 through 525 as secondary HBO.

 

[MediaTechGuy]

Interesting info guys thx. Still haven’t been able to get the second setup working. It’s the exact same setup as the one I got working. Tried the exact same thing that got the first setup working. Lol man this is frustrating.