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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This thread reminded me of all the questions I've read here over the years about the window button on most Tivo remotes that doesn't do anything.

With a dual tuner HD Tivo on the horizon, does anyone know (or think) that the window button will finally support Picture in Picture?

:cool:
 

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I doubt it. The DirecTiVo has dual tuners for recording, but only one output. So although you can record two shows at once and watch a third, you can't monitor anything but the one being displayed.
Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect the Series 3 will be the same.
 

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weathertop said:
This thread reminded me of all the questions I've read here over the years about the window button on most Tivo remotes that doesn't do anything.

With a dual tuner HD Tivo on the horizon, does anyone know (or think) that the window button will finally support Picture in Picture?

:cool:
since the windows button is gone from the remote and replaced byan aspect button, it looks like the windows button will remain a mystery that fades away with time
 

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One of the features I was hoping it would have is the ability to perform functions without hiding the current livetv. That is one of the features from Moxi that I have really come to like. Unfortunately I did not see that interface in the demo we saw. In fact, it was pretty much exactly like the S2 interface.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ZeoTiVo said:
since the windows button is gone from the remote and replaced byan aspect button, it looks like the windows button will remain a mystery that fades away with time
D'oh! Even though I saw the Series 3 in person at the CES, I was never able to get a close look at the remote as the Tivo reps were pretty clingy with it....no doubt to keep it from walking away.

So, yeppers, I agree that the disappearance of this button bodes ill for any PIP functionality.

pdhenry said:
Isn't the Series 3 basically vaporware at this point (no offense, TiVo gang, but...)?
Vaporware? We know that there are at least 2 HD Tivos floating around that were at the CES.

:D
 

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No need for PIP if you have two live TV buffers. If you want to surf you can just pause one show, flip to the other tuner and surf away.

I also dislike the small viewing window that many (most) cable DVR's have. I call it the spoiler window. Nothing like turning on your TV to watch a show with five minutes remaining and have to watch and listen to it while you dig through unintuitive menus trying to start the show from the beginning. Anyway, as with PIP this is a useless feature when you can pause a show or rewind it when you are finished doing whatever you're doing.
 

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gtrogue said:
No need for PIP if you have two live TV buffers. If you want to surf you can just pause one show, flip to the other tuner and surf away.
Good point. If only I had a dual-tuner TiVo, I would know such things, too. :(
 

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if you have a large tv, and are a sports fan on a saturday or sunday - especially during march madness or bowl game day - PIP is very useful because you want to watch both tuners live simultaneously, and for extended periods of time.
 

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gtrogue said:
I also dislike the small viewing window that many (most) cable DVR's have. I call it the spoiler window. Nothing like turning on your TV to watch a show with five minutes remaining and have to watch and listen to it while you dig through unintuitive menus trying to start the show from the beginning.
So, hit pause first.
 

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pdhenry said:
Isn't the Series 3 basically vaporware at this point (no offense, TiVo gang, but...)?
well the vapor looked pretty functional at CES :rolleyes:
 

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Royster said:
So, hit pause first.
I can say the same to the people that like the little window and don't have it on the Tivo.
Ultimately, it is a worthless feature in a product that allows you to pause and backup to any point you'd like.

PIP and viewing windows when menus and guides are displayed are remnants of an old, live, uncontrollable TV watching paradigm. Sadly this viewing mentally is so totally entrenched that many (most) people have an extremely hard time adapting to a world where "live" TV is unimportant.

I've adapted fully and it is one of the reasons that all other DVR's pale in comparison to Tivo in my view. Tivo is the only PVR that fully embraces the new TV watching paradigm.
 

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rainwater said:
One of the features I was hoping it would have is the ability to perform functions without hiding the current livetv. That is one of the features from Moxi that I have really come to like.
Really? I hate that feature. Every time I switch over to my Moxi I have to mute the reciever and try not to look at the little minature picture to avoid ruining recorded programs. This is especially troublesome when watching football as it's kind of worthless to watch the game delayed if you already know the score at the current live point.

Edit: Wow I just totally smeeked! :)

Dan
 

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Dan203 said:
Really? I hate that feature. Every time I switch over to my Moxi I have to mute the reciever and try not to look at the little minature picture to avoid ruining recorded programs. This is especially troublesome when watching football as it's kind of worthless to watch the game delayed if you already know the score at the current live point.

Edit: Wow I just totally smeeked! :)

Dan
Maybe you don't watch live tv. I do though. And many times I will setup recordings, etc, during commercials. And the live tv window allows you to do this and to monitor what's on the channel. Also, its great to use if you watch the news. I get a lot of things done during the news since actually seeing it full screen isn't that beneficial most of the time.
 

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rainwater said:
Maybe you don't watch live tv. I do though. And many times I will setup recordings, etc, during commercials. And the live tv window allows you to do this and to monitor what's on the channel. Also, its great to use if you watch the news. I get a lot of things done during the news since actually seeing it full screen isn't that beneficial most of the time.
Again, why not pause, do whatever you are going to do and then go back and watch what you were watching?
Is it just an issue of having something going on and you really aren't watching it? Is it just background noise?
If so, then you really aren't watching live TV.

Like I said before, this issue is part of an old TV watching paradigm. In the old days you always had to be worried about missing something so PIP and viewing windows were nice conveniences. In the new PVR paradigm they are unnecessary annoyances.
 

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Different strokes .. everyone uses their toys a little different.

Sometimes I'll pause to register a recording or check something while I am thinking of it.. but a lot of times I will use the guide to check sometime in the middle of a programs duller moments..

Doesn't mean I'm still not aware of what's happening in the program.
 

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gtrogue said:
Again, why not pause, do whatever you are going to do and then go back and watch what you were watching?
Is it just an issue of having something going on and you really aren't watching it? Is it just background noise?
If so, then you really aren't watching live TV.

Like I said before, this issue is part of an old TV watching paradigm. In the old days you always had to be worried about missing something so PIP and viewing windows were nice conveniences. In the new PVR paradigm they are unnecessary annoyances.
Why would you need to pause live tv. That seems like an unnecessary step. This is the 21st century. Hardware limitations shouldn't have to be a factor anymore to developing the software. Btw, a lot of the modern PVR software allows viewing of the current live TV buffer while using the interface. The reason its not in TiVo is partly due to the limitations of the hardware. With more modern hardware you will see it because it allows the user to use the interface and still experience live tv.

For people who have used TiVo for years, I can understand why they wouldn't like it. I love the TiVo interface, but I have found myself wishing TiVo had this after using Moxi. I am not a big fan of the rest of the Moxi interface however.
 

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gtrogue said:
Again, why not pause, do whatever you are going to do and then go back and watch what you were watching?
Is it just an issue of having something going on and you really aren't watching it? Is it just background noise?
If so, then you really aren't watching live TV.

Like I said before, this issue is part of an old TV watching paradigm. In the old days you always had to be worried about missing something so PIP and viewing windows were nice conveniences. In the new PVR paradigm they are unnecessary annoyances.
I have to agree with gtrogue. I have one S2 Tivo and one (horrible) Time Warner DVR. I love the Tivo interface, and really hate the generic Time Warner DVR interface. I won't get into specifics on this post except for the current topic of pausing or not pausing live TV.

If a commercial comes on, I fast forward it past the commercial. If it's live TV, which I RARELY every watch (it's a waste of time to wait through commercials, imo), I'll pause live TV to use the restroom, grab a snack, take the dog out quickly, answer the phone, etc. When I'm done, I'll play where I paused it or fast forward if it's at a commercial.

However, I can't explain enough how irritating it is on the Time Warner DVR to be in the middle of a show, get to a commercial, pause it, go into the "list" to see what else has been recorded only to see what the DVR is also recording on another channel. It has almost many time caused me to see the climatic part of the show.

I don't need to see, and frankly, don't want to see a small screen of live TV of a show that is being recorded when I'm not ready to watch that particular show.

With all that being said, I know some people are stuck in a time that has since gone, and with today's technology, Tivo should give a user the option to allow the window or to not allow the window. That way, everyone who wants it can use it, and those of us with different viewing habits can choose to not enable that feature.
 

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rainwater said:
Why would you need to pause live tv. That seems like an unnecessary step. This is the 21st century. Hardware limitations shouldn't have to be a factor anymore to developing the software. Btw, a lot of the modern PVR software allows viewing of the current live TV buffer while using the interface. The reason its not in TiVo is partly due to the limitations of the hardware. With more modern hardware you will see it because it allows the user to use the interface and still experience live tv.

For people who have used TiVo for years, I can understand why they wouldn't like it. I love the TiVo interface, but I have found myself wishing TiVo had this after using Moxi. I am not a big fan of the rest of the Moxi interface however.
I doubt it is a hardware limitation. Tivo could probably implement it if they wished. They obviously thought of PIP or some such functionality when the Series 2 was developed. Hence the "Window" button on the remote.

Hey, even I thought the little viewing window would be a nice addition when I got my first Tivo in '99. Now, based on my experience with cable DVR's the spoiler windows are just a nuisance.
 

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Back in the early days of the Series 2, when you could still access the back door code, I tried looking at the log after pressing the PIP/Window button and it said something about DirecTV. So I think the original intention of the PIP/Window button was to add PIP functionality to the dual tuner DirecTiVo units. However for whatever reason they scrapped that feature and changed the label on the button to Window. What I don't get is if they knew the feature was scrapped why didn't they switch back to the original design with the Stand By button? Seems a lot more useful then a button that does nothing.

Dan
 
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