[tomhorsley]

Let's drag every ghost story cliche into the episode for the first half hour, then if anyone is still watching, show how clever we are by demonstrating we didn't steal cybermen from Mary Shelly, Mary Shelly stole Frankenstein from us.

 

[Rob Helmerichs]

Except, of course, Cybermen are nothing like Frankenstein's Monster...

C'mon, put in a little effort! There are so many legitimate things to gripe about with this show. You don't have to make stuff up!

 

[cheesesteak]

I thought it was somewhat slow at first but got much better as things got rolling.

It kinda bothered me how badly she reamed Ryan out.

"Mrs. Doctor"

Have previous Doctor's been able to read minds?

 

[LoadStar]

Have previous Doctor's been able to read minds?

That was similar to the comment I made. "When the heck did the Doctor get the ability to 'mind meld'?"

Seems that even if it was possible in the past, Chibnall has allowed his writers to use that ability possibly to the point of over-use.

 

[cstelter]

That was similar to the comment I made. "When the heck did the Doctor get the ability to 'mind meld'?"

Seems that even if it was possible in the past, Chibnall has allowed his writers to use that ability possibly to the point of over-use.

I vaguely recall Matt Smith's doctor doing it with the guy played by James Corden (Craig?) who had a spaceship on his 3rd floor.

 

[kdmorse]

Have previous Doctor's been able to read minds?

It's happened several times in the current series. The Girl in the Fireplace comes to mind. He's sent and received telepathic messages more than once. It's a standard issue "it can be done when the plot demands it" mechanic - most Time Lords are psychic when they want to be. Although it felt a bit out of place here.

So.... They're pretty much setting up the Season Finale as a make or break episode here. It's what little we're going to get of an Arc, it's been led into by at least two episodes. I really hope it's not just a retread of "Resolution" with a lone, special but rusty and damaged cyberman trying to raise an invasion force - in the place of a lone, special but rusty* and damaged Dalek looking to raise an invasion force. I hope it somehow entwines with an explanation of the other version of the Doctor we saw episodes ago, and the Judoon platoon near the lagoon, the TimeLords employing them, and the destruction of Gallifrey (instead of leaving all of those as one-episode plot points, like so many others again). But I kinda doubt it.

* Not to be confused with Rusty the Dalek, an entirely different rusty Dalek.

Overall I'd say it was a better than recently average episode (which isn't saying much). They really have a continuing problem with pacing and nonsensical plot resolution though. In the past, it's been "The world is ending, we're doomed" - followed by the doctor sneezing, and in 30 seconds all is well - world saved. In this case it went the other way... After an episode of keeping the thingy away from the bad guy... the bad guy just said "Err, if you don't gimmie the thingy, I'll destroy the earth"... "Doctor: ok, have the thingy", tada - bad guy wins?

They better top this season off with a big bang, or lord only knows if anyone will bother to watch when the next season comes back. (Not yet officially renewed for Season 13, no return date)

 

[Craigbob]

They better top this season off with a big bang, or lord only knows if anyone will bother to watch when the next season comes back. (Not yet officially renewed for Season 13, no return date)

It's been renewed for Season 13. Filming to begin in the fall and airing in 2021.
Doctor Who series 13 to begin filming in autumn 2020

As for this episode, I found it incredibly boring and had trouble keeping my attention on it. One of the worst of the season IMO.

I'm not really liking any of the companions I have to say. They just don't do it for me. Maybe if there were one or two, or maybe if they rotated out so not all three were there at the same time All the time.

This is the 1st time since the new version began that the companions just leave me feeling Meh...

Give me a another companion like Donna, or Martha Jones and I'll be happy.

 

[Shakhari]

10 eps or 12 this season?

 

[Rob Helmerichs]

10.

 

[tim1724]

This episode was not as horrible as some of the others this season but it wasn't great either.

 

[LoadStar]

Give me a another companion like Donna, or Martha Jones and I'll be happy.

Donna was interesting as a change of pace... definitely a non-traditional companion. Martha was just sort of meh for me, but better than the current bunch.

Rose, Amy (at times), and Clara (when the show could figure out what to do with her) were my choices.

 

[Dawghows]

They really have a continuing problem with pacing and nonsensical plot resolution though. In the past, it's been "The world is ending, we're doomed" - followed by the doctor sneezing, and in 30 seconds all is well - world saved. In this case it went the other way... After an episode of keeping the thingy away from the bad guy... the bad guy just said "Err, if you don't gimmie the thingy, I'll destroy the earth"... "Doctor: ok, have the thingy", tada - bad guy wins?

This has been my main complaint these two seasons. I said in a previous episode thread that I wish the Doctor would just slow down a little, but in retrospect I think the real problem is there's just way too much going on in most of the episodes. I know there was some talk about not having continuing arcs, but then too often it almost seems like they're trying to fit two-hour stories into one-hour time slots. And at the same time, the stories aren't very compelling.

As far as the companions go, I don't have a strong feeling one way or another about them. Faint praise, I know, but I'm not bothered by them as much as some of you guys seem to be. And actually I think Graham is pretty [email protected] funny a lot of the time. Of course I agree they don't measure up to some of the previous companions, but again, I fault the stories, not the characters.

 

[cheesesteak]

I don't have a problem with the companions individually. It's just that having three of them makes it harder to have interesting story lines for all three of them that do them justice in ten episodes.

 

[dtle]

I do agree, having three companions is too many.

With only one companion, it has to be the opposite sex, and with the Doctor being an attractive actor, there's always gonna be some sexual tension. I don't think the writers are prepared for that now.

Two companions seems to be the best. My favorite episodes had Rose & Jack, and Amy & Rory.

 

[pgogborn]

I don't have a problem with the companions individually. It's just that having three of them makes it harder to have interesting story lines for all three of them that do them justice in ten episodes.

Also in my opinion multiple companions, crew on a bridge, tends to produce characters who are one dimensional - the logical one, the empath, the security offiicer muscle etc. etc rather than a more interesting well-rounded three dimensional character.

I am also wondering if this Doctor is getting less screen time because multiple companions are getting more - often when the Doctor isn't even in the same room.

To redress the balance - an article that appeared in my favorite decent liberal newspaper today.

###
The diehards of doom! Why Doctor Who is the show fans love to hate
For 56 years and counting, Whovians have been railing against the wheres, whys and, well, everything about their beloved series. Will anything quell this rage?
Paul Kirkley
Wed 19 Feb 2020 14.30 GMT Last modified on Wed 19 Feb 2020 14.46 GMT
...
If Doctor Who seems like a show that has been disappointing its devotees for 56 years and counting, perhaps that is to be expected. After all, no other TV series in history has shown such a wilful disregard for anything approaching a house style, happily pressing the re-set button every week and leaping between planets and time zones, comedy and tragedy, psychodrama and space opera.

Besides, it can be healthy to mock the things we love. Half the fun of being a Doctor Who fan is celebrating those moments where the show falls short of its vaulting overambition.
...
Case in point: in 1986, two of Doctor Who's writers were subjected to a handbagging from a group of "diehard fans" on BBC feedback show Open Air. Among them was a teenager who offered a quietly devastating critique of the "cliched" scripts full of "running up and down corridors and silly monsters". His name? Chris Chibnall.

In 2018, Chibnall dismissed his younger self's words as "a load of nonsense". Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.
...
Any show that continues to provoke such passionate debate is clearly doing something right. It's when the arguments stop he needs to worry.) >
The diehards of doom! Why Doctor Who is the show fans love to hate
###

 

[tomhorsley]

His name? Chris Chibnall.

He certainly does seem to be an expert on bad scripts.

 

[ThePennyDropped]

He certainly does seem to be an expert on bad scripts.

He's the one responsible for that stupid episode with the moon actually being an alien egg or something like that, wasn't he?

 

[tomhorsley]

He's the one responsible for that stupid episode with the moon actually being an alien egg or something like that, wasn't he?

Nope, that turnip was written by Peter Harness.

 

[Rob Helmerichs]

Chris Chibnall seems to me like another Steven Moffat...somebody who's a perfectly good writer when he's working for somebody else, but not at all suited to be the boss himself. (He was the main writer on Torchwood, e.g.)

 

[mattyro7878]

This is the first season I really dont care about the companions. I have always enjoyed the show and never felt I had to make excuses for it. Until recently.